How many commandments should we christians obey?

[Mobius]

Matthew 15
10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

Jesus said that because his disciples were criticized because they were eating with unclean hands but he didn´t mean we should eat just any moving thing such as rats, snakes, or worms. Besides we should be aware that the excessive consumption of red meats and dairy products could cause cancer tumors.

That's exactly what so many people miss. Liberal Jews, and most Christians tend to see G-d's instructions as being abritrary... sort of like the stereotype of a bearded guy in robes hanging out in a cloud, wagging His finger at us every time we try to have a little fun.

Nothing could be further from the truth! 90% of what G-d asks of us would be in our own best interests EVEN IF HE DIDN'T EXIST. He doesn't make rules, just to have rules. He's our Father, He loves us, and He wants to see our days be long and happy. That's why He gives us rules to follow.. the same as any earthly father would do. We are given rules to protect us.

To add to the red meat/dairy comment, pork and shellfish are the same way. If you aren't used to them, they will make you sick. Of course this makes sense. None of them are exactly discriminating consumers. And any sort of "food" which we have to build up an immunity for, in order to safely eat, is probably not that good for us. Does it mean I would go to hell if I ate a pork chop? Probably not. But I not only love G-d, but I also trust Him, that He knows much better than I, what is good for me. So I submit to His statutes to keep me safe, and to make my days long and happy.

 

[Definition_Christ]

That's exactly what so many people miss. Liberal Jews, and most Christians tend to see G-d's instructions as being abritrary... sort of like the stereotype of a bearded guy in robes hanging out in a cloud, wagging His finger at us every time we try to have a little fun.

Nothing could be further from the truth! 90% of what G-d asks of us would be in our own best interests EVEN IF HE DIDN'T EXIST. He doesn't make rules, just to have rules. He's our Father, He loves us, and He wants to see our days be long and happy. That's why He gives us rules to follow.. the same as any earthly father would do. We are given rules to protect us.

To add to the red meat/dairy comment, pork and shellfish are the same way. If you aren't used to them, they will make you sick. Of course this makes sense. None of them are exactly discriminating consumers. And any sort of "food" which we have to build up an immunity for, in order to safely eat, is probably not that good for us. Does it mean I would go to hell if I ate a pork chop? Probably not. But I not only love G-d, but I also trust Him, that He knows much better than I, what is good for me. So I submit to His statutes to keep me safe, and to make my days long and happy.

Okay so you can continue to mock Christians view of God, but Jesus Himself is the one who said He is the great I AM. So obviously and evidently you are calling Jesus a liar. Numbers says God is not a man. That's right..But it doesn't say God cannot BECOME a man which is exactly what He did.

 

[Mobius]

Do you believe Jesus when He says He is the great I AM mentioned in Exodus and Isaiah?

That's NOT what He said. He said "Before Abraham, I am."

This mystery can be put in context via John 1, which tells us that Messiah is the very Word of G-d, given flesh, and sent to dwell among men.

We all know that G-d spoke the world into being. But what did He speak, which created the world? Naturally, it was the Word of G-d! The Word of G-d is the Torah... that same Word which would later be given flesh.

And so it is, that this man Yeshua was said to be "the alpha and the omega." Surely such terms cannot refer to G-d. G-d is not a "first" anything... He is an "ONLY."

But seeing Yeshua as the Word of G-d manifest in the flesh, it all makes perfect sense. Before G-d spoke, there was nothing but G-d. AS G-d spoke, the Word of G-d became the first created thing... the Alpha. and THROUGH this Word of G-d, were all things created. Yet even if all these things, and Heaven and Earth should pass away, G-d's Word will remain... the Omega.

*EDIT*

How am I mocking anyone?

 

[Definition_Christ]

That's NOT what He said. He said "Before Abraham, I am."

This mystery can be put in context via John 1, which tells us that Messiah is the very Word of G-d, given flesh, and sent to dwell among men.

We all know that G-d spoke the world into being. But what did He speak, which created the world? Naturally, it was the Word of G-d! The Word of G-d is the Torah... that same Word which would later be given flesh.

And so it is, that this man Yeshua was said to be "the alpha and the omega." Surely such terms cannot refer to G-d. G-d is not a "first" anything... He is an "ONLY."

But seeing Yeshua as the Word of G-d manifest in the flesh, it all makes perfect sense. Before G-d spoke, there was nothing but G-d. AS G-d spoke, the Word of G-d became the first created thing... the Alpha. and THROUGH this Word of G-d, were all things created. Yet even if all these things, and Heaven and Earth should pass away, G-d's Word will remain... the Omega.

Okay I'll show you what Jesus said, and that wasn't what I was referring to.

Exodus 3:14 - And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (KJV)

John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (NKJV)

What does that mean? ..Well we can conclude that Jesus IS the Great I AM.
How important is that? Do we NEED to know Jesus is God ? Answer: Very important, and yes.. Yes we do.

John 8:24 - Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins. (NKJV) EGO EIMI

Jesus is the I AM mentioned in Exodus and Isaiah.

Seriously think about it for a minute.. Why would Thomas in John 20:28 cry out.. mou Kurios kai mou Theos to Jesus and worship Him... Why would a monotheistic Jew who says Shama Yisrael Yehovah elohym Yehovah echad every morning call Jesus God?

When I was referring to the great I AM, that was mentioned many times not just John 8:58 which you, Jehovah's witnesses, and many other non-Christian religions try to build a bridge around. But the thing is Jesus said it more then just that one time.

Edit: By saying "most Christians tend to see G-d's instructions as being abritrary... sort of like the stereotype of a bearded guy in robes hanging out in a cloud, wagging His finger at us every time we try to have a little fun. "

 

[Mobius]

*shrug*

You say I'm disparaging your view of G-d, I think that discarding G-d's rules for His children disparages the Word itself. I suppose we'll just have to disagree on that. All I can say it's not my intent to make fun OF anyone, although I did intend the comment to be humorous.

John 8:24 has nothing to do with it. Yes, I'm sure, any trinitarian translation capitalizes I AM, but there is a context for all of it, if we read the whole chapter, and the original Greek had no capital letters. Reading it in context, we see that we must believe that He is from heaven, as He claims (not being G-d, which He never did claim). In fact, all through the chapter, we see repeated references to "the One who sent Me" and many statements of humiility; that He doesn't seek praise for Himself, that to praise Himself would be meaningless... surely G-d speaking of G-d's greatness isn't blaspemous.... but then again, G-d can't really send G-d, can He? Neither can one be one's own Father, or any other of myriad gaps in logic which trinitarianism kinda covers up with analogies (father/son/brother, ice/water/vapor) or by saying it's just too great a mystery for the human mind to "get."

So we have a bit of a conundrum... but one easily solved, again, if we trust John, the most prophetic of the apostles, and in the words of Messiah Himself, among the greatest of all men, when He told us that Yeshua is the Word of G-d made flesh.

 

[Definition_Christ]

So let me guess, that's now not the inspired Word of God because it goes against your beliefs? Or.. That is a mistranslation? I am curious what you will come up with because the evidence Jesus saying He is God goes on, I can give you direct quotes from Jesus to prove He was claiming to be God, and Jesus IS God. I mean don't you even know that the Jews of that day knew exactly what Jesus was saying? I mean let's take a look at what the Jews said...

John 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

So the pharisee's knew exactly what Jesus was saying. They knew He was claiming to be God. You can either agree with Jesus or agree with the pharisee's. When I say Jesus is God, don't believe me.. Believe Jesus.. Because He is the one who said it!

Most religions don't understand the Trinity, God just happens to be triune. We don't say Jesus is the Father, we say Jesus is God.. The Son. They are not two separate God's they are different Persons. the Father is one person, the Son is another person and the Holy Spirit is another person.

 

[Mobius]

Right, they misunderstood His words, as they often did. But HAD he been claiming to be G-d, they would be 100% right in calling that blasphemy. The Word of G-d says that G-d is NOT a man, nor the "Son of Man".... what was the most common name by which Messiah called Himself?

Anybody know ?

It's almost like this G-d fellow could see into the future, isn't it?

 

[Definition_Christ]

I mean do you agree that God raised Jesus from the dead? If you do then you are actually accepting Jesus being God or calling Jesus a liar.
Here we have Jesus referring to His body as a temple. You know like in Corinthians where it says our body is the temple of God?

Well this is what Jesus said.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

So Jesus said "I will raise it up".. So did God raise Jesus from the dead? I'll let you answer..


Now to finish it up for the Trinity let's talk about the Holy Spirit, I am sure you believe the Holy Spirit to be an active force or something along those lines. Well let's look what Jesus said.

John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come

I mean you can clearly see here.. Jesus speaking about the Holy Spirit.. Saying "He will guide you into all truth" I mean that is an action of a Person not just an active force.. "He will....He hears... He will speak.... He will tell you things to come...." You see my point right? (not trying to start another debate but I am just sharing my view of the Holy Spirit and why I believe that He's the third Person of the Trinity and not just some active force.. Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as a HE and not an IT.

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you(The Holy Spirit). Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ(the SAME Spirit), he is not His.

 

[Definition_Christ]

To deny that God can become a man is to deny that Jesus is of the essence of the Father, or that Jesus is divine, and even the idea of an incarnation at all. If Jesus is not the essence of the Father, then we are left with the doctrine of Arianism which sees Jesus as a lesser deity than the Father, or Ditheism (belief in two Gods), both of which are heresy and do not affirm the monotheism of the Scripture. According to YHWH, there is no other God besides Him (Deuteronomy 4:35; Isaiah 45:5, 21). He did not mean that there is no other God equal to Him, but that no other divine being exists! With this teaching we are forced to conclude that Jesus is either YHWH incarnated in the flesh, or Jesus is a mere man. Such a position is biblically untenable, and such an exegesis of Numbers 23:19 leads to a logically absurd position for one who still wishes to hold a theistic view of Jesus Christ, no matter how minimal it may be. If a divine being cannot become a man, then the idea of an incarnation is impossible

There you go, because you keep bringing up numbers 23:19. I mean is what I am saying making sense? I am just reading off exactly what Jesus said and I believe Him.. I mean I am still learning so if you can teach me something about Jesus please share.. I just came to conclude after reading the Scriptures that Jesus is God, Not the Father. But I believe in the Trinity.

 

[watchmen]

How many commandments should we christians obey?

All of them!!!!

 

[watchmen]

Yeah man great idea!! Let's all obey all of the 613 commandments written in the OT just like Jesus did!!

I'm pretty sure Paul was an EXPERT on grace.

Now I am going to post some verses that may shock you but it's all in your bible.
Philippians 3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. (KEY VERSE)
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

.........

Galations 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.

I'm not sure if you are saying work for salvation but just in case here is one of the many verses that go against that.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8)

We are not under the Jewish civil law we need not keep the 603 Jewish civil laws , but we are to obey the 10 commandment, or at least he 2 great commandments of Chris.t Love God, and love your neighbor of which if we keep then we will not break the 10 commandments any way.

 

[Toby]

Those "experts" can go to hell for all I care. I think we should obey all of them, Because the Lord Wants us to obey him. He put us on earth we should at least obey what he tells us to do. There us a commandment what tells us not to worship idols and those "experts" would be classified of idols if they are worshiped! obey God and only God

 

[Definition_Christ]

Those "experts" can go to hell for all I care. I think we should obey all of them, Because the Lord Wants us to obey him. He put us on earth we should at least obey what he tells us to do. There us a commandment what tells us not to worship idols and those "experts" would be classified of idols if they are worshiped! obey God and only God

Sheeeeeeesh mate. That is st. Paul you are talking about.. My point was that if you are keeping the commandments because you love God then that is perfect!! Keep it up!. But if you are relying to get into heaven because of your doings of keeping the commandments that is wrong because righteousness does not come from the law, I already posted Galations 2:21. But That is what I meant. If you want righteousness you get only get that through Christ, but if you are keeping the commandments out of your love for God that is great.

 

[Mobius]

I mean do you agree that God raised Jesus from the dead? If you do then you are actually accepting Jesus being God or calling Jesus a liar.
Here we have Jesus referring to His body as a temple. You know like in Corinthians where it says our body is the temple of God?

Well this is what Jesus said.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

So Jesus said "I will raise it up".. So did God raise Jesus from the dead? I'll let you answer..

No offense but that's pretty weak. He's a man, not a puppet. We're talking about more than His spirit living on. Scripture says that He rose from the dead. Of course G-d raised Him from the dead. Did G-d pull on Him like a puppet to get Him vertical, or did He simply breathe the Breath of Life into His nostrils, and Messiah was able to lift Himself from the burial position, and go to speak with His friends ? He said repeatedly that He couldn't do anything, except through Him who had sent Him.

Now to finish it up for the Trinity let's talk about the Holy Spirit, I am sure you believe the Holy Spirit to be an active force or something along those lines. Well let's look what Jesus said.

I believe what the Bible says. The Ruach HaKodesh is expressly mentioned in the creation story in Genesis, I believe the first time is to say the "Holy Spirit" moved across the face of the waters.

John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as a HE and not an IT.

So would it change anything if I told you the Spirit "Ruach" and thus spirits in general, are a feminine
noun, in the Hebrew ?

 

[Definition_Christ]

I would bring up other texts in the NT but every time I do you make up some excuse and if Paul happens to be the person writing God's message you come against it with strong hatred. So you are calling Jesus a liar by saying He's not God. Just to let you know. I've shown you clearly in the unarguable text. Not worth my time here. I showed you the truth, you rejected it. God bless you.

 

[Meridoc]

According to some "experts" on grace we should obey only one or two; some even say we should obey none; However, what did Jesus our Lord say?

Matthew 5:19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Certainly he meant the more we obey the better.

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Jesus tells us if we follow these two commandments(as we should) we will be following all of the law.

 

[Mobius]

I would bring up other texts in the NT but every time I do you make up some excuse and if Paul happens to be the person writing God's message you come against it with strong hatred. So you are calling Jesus a liar by saying He's not God. Just to let you know. I've shown you clearly in the unarguable text. Not worth my time here. I showed you the truth, you rejected it. God bless you.

I already said, only if it conflicts with scripture. Scripture can't conflict with scripture. If Paul's message is scriptural, then His message can be found elsewhere in scripture. The same way even Messiah's messages ALL had their foundations in the previous scriptures. Give me any lesson He taught, and I can show you its foundation in the Torah.

By that same token, many of those same Jews it seems faashionable to bash, are following Messiah's message, even if not from His lips, by following the texts Messiah quoted throughout his ministry. One without the other is dead. A Jew that doesn't know Yeshua, or a Christian who turns their back on the Torah are both only getting half the story. But it doesn't mean they're getting both halves wrong, and it doesn't mean they're doomed or anything. It's simply a matter of brethren in error. It is for G-d to judge the hearts.

 

[Definition_Christ]

I already said, only if it conflicts with scripture. Scripture can't conflict with scripture. If Paul's message is scriptural, then His message can be found elsewhere in scripture. The same way even Messiah's messages ALL had their foundations in the previous scriptures. Give me any lesson He taught, and I can show you its foundation in the Torah.

By that same token, many of those same Jews it seems faashionable to bash, are following Messiah's message, even if not from His lips, by following the texts Messiah quoted throughout his ministry. One without the other is dead. A Jew that doesn't know Yeshua, or a Christian who turns their back on the Torah are both only getting half the story. But it doesn't mean they're getting both halves wrong, and it doesn't mean they're doomed or anything. It's simply a matter of brethren in error. It is for G-d to judge the hearts.

Okay you've already made it clear you don't trust the Bible as God's Word. And you refuse to believe Jesus is God when Jesus clearly taught it. You are right when you say God is the judge. Jesus is the judge He also makes that clear in Scripture.

 

[Mobius]

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Jesus tells us if we follow these two commandments(as we should) we will be following all of the law.

Yes, yes! This is the most important Bible verse in Judaism. Deu 6:4. It is often the first verse a person says in the morning, the last thing said at night, or the last thing said before one dies. It's SO crucial. It's also the earliest recorded instance in history of a nation-state requiring literacy of man, woman and child.

And other is like it, Lev 19:18, we are to love our neighbor as ourselves.

But let's stop there, and not go beyond what the texts says. It does not say you are fulfilling the law if you do these things. It says that upon these two, ALL the law and the prophets "hang." You can hang many things from your walls, but you will need something very small, but rock solid, upon which to hang those things.

For centuries, scholars have split the "ten commandments" into 2 categories, those dealing with man's relationship to G-d, and the rest man's relationship to man. And even beyond those 10, I can't think of a single instruction that can't fit into one or the other category.

 

[pickles]

Amen to the greatest comandment. Also to on this are all the laws based. To obey this is to obey all. I thank our Lord Jesus for his grace that covers my weakness though. What a wonderful God, he gives us a law that frees us from the world, then gives us the means to succeed through Jesus when we are weak. May all the glory and honor be yours Lord God our Father.
God bless, pickles