"how that Christ died for our sins"

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garee

Banned
#41
Mar 28, 2016
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#41
LeeLoving said:
1 Corinthians 15:3 - For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

What do these words mean?
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We know Christ cannot die. He is eternal Spirit without beginning of days or end of Spirit life.. I would think the death could be compared to Laurus .Who at first Jesus said: was dead. Hiding the spiritual understanding from the lost in that parable . Then explained he was asleep. For four days the Holy Spirit kept Lazarus's flesh from corrupting.

For three days he kept the flesh of the Son of man, Jesus from corrupting . The three days that the father poured out His Spirit life in jeopardy of His own Spirit life a dual work of faith to restrain the suffering of hell as two working together to bring us the peace of God.
 
EternalFire

EternalFire

Well-known member
#43
Jan 3, 2019
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#43
Guojing said:
Jesus revealed to Paul the mysteries of the gospel of grace, that the other 11, and James were not the recipients of.

But as you have correctly stated, he loved his people and wanted them to believe in Jesus as their promised Messiah, so he followed the Law, even though he knew it was not necessary, to be accepted by the Jews. As one of the verses I have used in Acts stated, only those Jews who are devout to the Law are highly respected among the Jews.

But as the sad incident in Acts 21-22 showed, the Jews have rejected him because they regarded him as a law breaker. They were incensed that he told them that Jesus was sending him to the Gentiles (Acts 22:22). This was forbidden under the Law.

It was noteworthy that none of the elders, nor James, ever came to his defense in Acts 22-23, even after they persuaded him to sponsor the Jewish shaving head ceremony.
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The phrase "gospel of grace" does not seem to be used in Scriptures, at least not in the quick searches I did for it in the ESV, NIV, and KJV. Where is it found and defined?

What is to be made of the churches to whom Paul wrote, as for instance the church in Ephesus (Ac 19:17), with believers who are Jews and Gentiles? It is clear from Ephesians that Jesus has made the Jew and Gentile one by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations (Eph 2:14-18).
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#44
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#44
There is no other Gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ taught to all freely. If you do not believe this, you should read Paul more carefully for he said any who teach anything called another gospel other that That of Jesus should be accursed…...…...
 
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Guojing

Banned
#45
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#45
EternalFire said:
The phrase "gospel of grace" does not seem to be used in Scriptures, at least not in the quick searches I did for it in the ESV, NIV, and KJV. Where is it found and defined?

What is to be made of the churches to whom Paul wrote, as for instance the church in Ephesus (Ac 19:17), with believers who are Jews and Gentiles? It is clear from Ephesians that Jesus has made the Jew and Gentile one by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations (Eph 2:14-18).
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Eph. 3:2 is the key but Paul is well known for teaching on grace in his salvation message to the Gentiles.

Every epistle signed by his name opens with a proclamation of grace and peace “from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.” In the epistles we find that we are “justified freely by [God’s] grace” (Rom. 3:24), that “where sin abounded grace did much more abound” (Rom. 5:20) that grace might reign (5:21). There we read that we are “not under the law, but under grace” (6:14), that “God is able to make all grace abound” toward us that we may “abound to every good work” (II Cor. 9:8), that it is God’s purpose for “the ages to come” to “show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:7). And we could go on and on adding up the evidence that “the dispensation of the grace of God” was indeed committed especially to Paul to make known to us.

Under the Law of Moses, which was still valid for the Jews in Acts, Jews were not supposed to be associated with Gentiles. As for your second question, from the incident with James and the elders in Acts 21:20-25, what probably happened was that Paul was so passionate in preaching that Gentile believers are dead to the Law, that some of those Jews also overheard and embraced it, much to the dismay of Jerusalem HQ.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#46
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#46
JaumeJ said:
There is no other Gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ taught to all freely. If you do not believe this, you should read Paul more carefully for he said any who teach anything called another gospel other that That of Jesus should be accursed…...…...
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Both Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel of Grace are about Jesus Christ.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#47
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
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#47
JaumeJ said:
There is no other Gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ taught to all freely. If you do not believe this, you should read Paul more carefully for he said any who teach anything called another gospel other that That of Jesus should be accursed…...…...
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He said this as Church doctrine. It would be false to preach the gospel of the kingdom now in the Church age. Just like the gospel of grace, the d,b,r was not preached before the Church age. Now, there is but one gospel that should be preached.
 
EternalFire

EternalFire

Well-known member
#48
Jan 3, 2019
659
352
63
#48
Guojing said:
Eph. 3:2 is the key but Paul is well known for teaching on grace in his salvation message to the Gentiles.

Every epistle signed by his name opens with a proclamation of grace and peace “from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.” In the epistles we find that we are “justified freely by [God’s] grace” (Rom. 3:24), that “where sin abounded grace did much more abound” (Rom. 5:20) that grace might reign (5:21). There we read that we are “not under the law, but under grace” (6:14), that “God is able to make all grace abound” toward us that we may “abound to every good work” (II Cor. 9:8), that it is God’s purpose for “the ages to come” to “show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus” (Eph. 2:7). And we could go on and on adding up the evidence that “the dispensation of the grace of God” was indeed committed especially to Paul to make known to us.

Under the Law of Moses, which was still valid for the Jews in Acts, Jews were not supposed to be associated with Gentiles. As for your second question, from the incident with James and the elders in Acts 21:20-25, what probably happened was that Paul was so passionate in preaching that Gentile believers are dead to the Law, that some of those Jews also overheard and embraced it, much to the dismay of Jerusalem HQ.
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If the Law of Moses was still valid for Jews who believed in Christ, why, then, as you point out concerning the issue of associating with Gentiles, would the Lord command in the very same book of Acts for Peter to go to the Gentiles (Acts 10), thus forcing a Jew to break the Law of Moses which you are claiming was still valid for Peter?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#49
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#49
EternalFire said:
If the Law of Moses was still valid for Jews who believed in Christ, why, then, as you point out concerning the issue of associating with Gentiles, would the Lord command in the very same book of Acts for Peter to go to the Gentiles (Acts 10), thus forcing a Jew to break the Law of Moses which you are claiming was still valid for Peter?
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It was a one-off event that the Holy Spirit did to signal to Peter that God was ending his program for the Jews, and the grace dispensation was beginning. If you recalled what Acts 10 stated, the Jews were astonished that God could pour out the Holy Spirit to Gentiles, thus signaling their salvation, even when they were not circumcised, which was a critical part of the Law of Moses.

God arranged for Peter for that one-off event so that he could defend Paul later on in Acts 15. There was no biblical record of Peter ever preaching to the Gentiles after that event.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#50
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#50
John146 said:
He said this as Church doctrine. It would be false to preach the gospel of the kingdom now in the Church age. Just like the gospel of grace, the d,b,r was not preached before the Church age. Now, there is but one gospel that should be preached.
Click to expand...

Church age? Are you not aware that the assemblies of God, Yahweh, are the Church? It has been since the first assembly of Israel. Study the Word before exacting agreement with your personal doctrines.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#51
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
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#51
Guojing said:
Both Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel of Grace are about Jesus Christ.
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To spread this is to say anything we decide to say about Jesus is a gospel, there is but one, that of Jesus Christ, not simply about Him.
 
JohnR7

JohnR7

Banned
#53
Dec 30, 2019
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290
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#53
LeeLoving said:
What do these words mean?
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The word HOW is added to the KJV, we do not see this word in the Greek. So all we have is that Jesus died for our sins ACCORDING to the Scriptures. Jesus said many times: "It is written". So this talks about how it was foretold that Jesus would die for our sins. There is nothing here about how He became a propitiation for us. Other passages do talk about that though if that is what you are asking. As there is discussion about the atonement. A lot of the Old Testament points to Christ and how He died in our place for our sins. .
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#56
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#56
Jesus said to His Flock that He had another Flock and He was going to join the Two.
Obviously, even though He did instruct not to go to the Gentiles, it was to be done in the near future.

Now, I do not want to turn this dialogue into "I know something, do you?" So, please do not attempt to interrogate someone who has read the Word dozens of times in at least four languages...…...Not that this makes anything any better for others, it is my own interestst to pursue the nuances of the words of the Word from one language to another.

The Holy Spirit leads us all, and only the Hoy Sprit…. I have learned from the uneducated dand from children...….
 
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Guojing

Banned
#57
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#57
JaumeJ said:
Jesus said to His Flock that He had another Flock and He was going to join the Two.
Obviously, even though He did instruct not to go to the Gentiles, it was to be done in the near future.

Now, I do not want to turn this dialogue into "I know something, do you?" So, please do not attempt to interrogate someone who has read the Word dozens of times in at least four languages...…...Not that this makes anything any better for others, it is my own interestst to pursue the nuances of the words of the Word from one language to another.

The Holy Spirit leads us all, and only the Hoy Sprit…. I have learned from the uneducated dand from children...….
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No, I am just curious to hear your point of view, why you believe the doctrine you hold.

If you want to participate in a discussion but would rather not share why you believe the doctrine you hold, I am fine too.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#58
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#58
My doctrine is spelled out quite clearly by our Lord, Jesus-Yeshua.

I am made of the faith of Abraham, given the power to be adopted by the Father, and a fellow heir with all of Israel, just as all who truly believe Jesus.

A Jew is anyone who praises God in faith.

Israel is all who will rule with Christ, the Messiah.

My Salvation is a gift which I have receive in faith.

The salvation of any includes obedience according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ….for He has not abolished all of the law but completed it.

I cannot teach against the least of the laws which He has maintained for us to obey, for this would be disobeying His teaching, and contrary to belief.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#59
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#59
JaumeJ said:
My doctrine is spelled out quite clearly by our Lord, Jesus-Yeshua.

I am made of the faith of Abraham, given the power to be adopted by the Father, and a fellow heir with all of Israel, just as all who truly believe Jesus.

A Jew is anyone who praises God in faith.

Israel is all who will rule with Christ, the Messiah.

My Salvation is a gift which I have receive in faith.

The salvation of any includes obedience according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ….for He has not abolished all of the law but completed it.

I cannot teach against the least of the laws which He has maintained for us to obey, for this would be disobeying His teaching, and contrary to belief.
Click to expand...
What did you put your faith on for your salvation, according to which scripture?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#60
Jul 3, 2015
60,154
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#60
Here (<- click!) is an interesting and informative page on "the gospel of grace" :)
 
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