How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
oh dear [just when I was beginning to be hopeful]

Them clouds are the same clouds we will go to meet Him in.
rev 14 has Jesus in a cloud gathering his covenant people DURING THE TRIB.

What a disappointment for those erroneously pushing a postrib rapture

Devastating.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Oh no ...

Who missed it? for what reason would they? God will not leave a single one of His blood bought behind ... unthinkable.

Because they were weak? they were not John Wayne, no true grit? because they slept?

But the dead in Christ will be FIRST to rise, what did they do to prepare?
Not according to your doctrine.
You have the dead rising AFTER the living are gathered in rev 14.

Error big time
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
op: pre-trib popular in churches today?

Highly DOUBTFUL! Most are in- post-trib MORE popular!

Biblical Fact Is: God Made It Popular, When He Revealed It To
HIS GRACE
apostle Paul, In HIS MYSTERY?:

Part I

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With
The Second Coming
, is found in God's Context:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)
-------------------
The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army, * All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)

to be continued...
Throw in rev 14.

And go back to the drawing board


Postrib rapture is impossible.

You guys I have the Dead in Christ raised after the living better gather during the trip in Revelation 14. I can tell you that ain't going away cuz the Holy Spirit put it
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Literally no one believes that. This is just another lame strawman fallacy.
It days all take the mark.

So you basically do not have any believers left for your supposed postrib rapture
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
op: pre-trib popular in churches today?

Highly DOUBTFUL! Most are in- post-trib MORE popular!

Biblical Fact Is: God Made It Popular, When He Revealed It To
HIS GRACE
apostle Paul, In HIS MYSTERY?:

Part I

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With
The Second Coming
, is found in God's Context:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)
-------------------
The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army, * All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)

to be continued...
Throw in rev 14.

And go back to the drawing board


Postrib rapture is impossible.

You guys I have the Dead in Christ raised after the living are gathered during the trib in Revelation 14.
I can tell you that ain't going away cuz the Holy Spirit put it in there for a reason
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Jesus returns to gather His elect. That's exactly how the rapture is described in every camp whether pre, mid, or post trib.

In other rapture verses Jesus comes back to gather His elect. What makes the post-trib rapture sure and scriptural is Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 say this literally happens after the tribulation that was described in the preceding verses.

Mark 13:24-27
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
From the four winds.

From heaven.
Definitely not the rapture
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Rev 14
Jesus gathers with a sickle sitting on a cloud during the trib.

So you have the dead in christ raised after the living.

That alone destroys postrib rapture doctrine
I never said no such thing. Do you agree the parable of the weeds in Matthew 13 is a reference to the harvest of the earth in Revelation 14?
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
I never said no such thing. Do you agree the parable of the weeds in Matthew 13 is a reference to the harvest of the earth in Revelation 14?
Your doctrine has the dead in Christ erroneously raised AFTER the rev 14 gathering.
No way around it
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
That's not a reply; that's called denial.
It was your verse.

But i suppose you did not know the gathering you speak of is from the 4 winds of heaven?

Are you aware of how the verses you brought forth read?

"4 winds" aint going away
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
His "elect" can mean many things. So show us the words "church" and "churches" after Revelation 3. The term elect can also mean (a) saved Jews, (b) specific individuals elected for specific ministries, and (c) Christians within the Church. Context determines which group or individual is being referred to. The Church is absent from the earth when God pours out His divine judgments. Which is consistent with Gospel truth and Bible truth. Even compromising Lot and his family were forcibly removed from Sodom.

And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. (Gen 19:15,16)

So why do Christians think that God will pour out His wrath upon the Church? Is that wishful thinking or stupid thinking?
Only the error of pre-trib says "God will pour out His wrath upon the Church" in order to confuse Scripture.

The LORD Himself says that hatred from the world towards His Elect is because we love the Risen Christ.

"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you" John 15:18-20

The LORD told His Bride they would be killed for His Name - Matthew 24

Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.
Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The LORD says they will persecute and kill His Bride, but that She need not fear death. - Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Reject the errors of pre-trib and the Truth will set you free - the Truth is our Sanctification.

I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
I never said no such thing. Do you agree the parable of the weeds in Matthew 13 is a reference to the harvest of the earth in Revelation 14?
You just made the 144k firstfruits of weeds.

The 144k are firstfruit Jews.
Ahem....harvested FIRST.
The main harvest ( of jews) follows.
That is Jesus with a sickle sitting on a cloud harvesting his elect.

That is how it (rev 14)reads.
No additives or pollutants
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
To me it reads like they are being gathered from wherever they are to somewhere else; that's what gathering means. If they are not physically moved from one geographic location to another then a gathering did not occur.

I think it means they are gathered from the surface of the Earth to the sky and that seems to make sense given that 1 Thessalonians 4:17 confirms Marks 13:27. That's a post-trib rapture slam dunk.

How did you get that they are not gathered?

Meanwhile...we simply open the bible to check out those postrib rapture theories.
( somebody has to)

We see there is no earthly gathering. The bible tells us WHERE the postrib gathering IS.

Ahem....the 4WINDS.

Zec 2:6
for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the Lord
Daniel 11:4
And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven
Daniel 8:8
Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
Jeremiah 49:36
And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven

Bible
We are so blessed to have Gods word
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Because they were weak? they were not John Wayne, no true grit? because they slept?
Because they rejected the Deity of Jesus and they refused to be wased in the soul-cleansing blood of the Lamb.
Brother please read carefully Revelation chapter 20 - the Lord is very specific
Revelation
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Because they rejected the Deity of Jesus and they refused to be wased in the soul-cleansing blood of the Lamb.

Revelation
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Who? Who are the ones that rejected the Deity of Jesus and be washed in His Blood???
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
But the dead in Christ will be FIRST to rise, what did they do to prepare?
Many Jews died without accepting Jesus' Atonement for their sins. Remember what Jesus told a Jew named Nicodemus. We all need to be born again if we want to be ready.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Who? Who are the ones that rejected the Deity of Jesus and be washed in His Blood???
The Traditional Jews. The crowd who shouted "crucify Him" and chose (and still do) to reject who Jesus is and did. Even in OT, they still needed to do things God's way. That blood needed to be on the doorpost.
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
No.

Let's lose the analogy and get to the actual events.

There will be living Christian survivors of the Great Tribulation. They won't be in one location which is why they need to be gathered together to one location. So they will be caught up and all will arrive at one place in the clouds. That's how they are made to be "together", as well as together with them that were already in the clouds waiting for them. Then all will be taken down as Christ makes that actual coming especially Armageddon and surrounding events.

That is people being moved upwards as well as moving back down. So I disagree with your conclusion that no "from-here-to-there movement" takes place because there is actually two distinct movements of the same people.
Don't know what bible you are using but, I suggest another.

Those dead in Christ shall rise up and be met in the air by those living in Christ and together they shall ascend..... there are none left on earth at that time.......saved from THE HOUR (the trib.) that shall come upon all the earth.

Those living NOT in Christ will become the AC target. Will some survive until the 2nd advent of Christ. ...perhaps so...not easy though.
Their survival will be like the Jew survivors during 2nd WW...who hid, ran, moved often, friends gave them food, medicines, etc. Will not be easy.

All saved will return with Christ at His 2nd advent. ...time of which He knows not.
 
Nov 17, 2017
595
409
63
HeY!
We are so blessed to have Gods word
AMEN!

Question
I think wording has a part in this:

What do you consider "pre-tribulAation"? after the "man of sin " is revelaled then (3.5 then 3.5 Great tribulation i,e Jacobs Trouble)?
7 year "great tribulation" after the "man of sin " is revelaled, the whole?

Thanks
God Bless!