How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[lamad]

No. God said the Second Coming shall come after the Great Tribulation. At this time, the Raptured ones will be coming back down with Him in clouds. Instead of partaking in God's wrath, they have been partaking in the Marriage Feast.

Have a nice day.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I am not sure I understand this post. "Second" in relation to His coming is used only once in Scripture and even then the words is "appearing," not "coming."

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

I believe we could understand this as a "second" coming, His first being when He came to bear the sins of many. Since we all are adults and have learned to count, IF there is a pretrib coming, that would be His second time to appear. There can be no IF for His coming as shown in Rev. 19: that is a guaranteed coming after the days of great tribulation. Again, IF there is a pretrib SECOND coming, then His coming in Rev. 19 would be His THIRD coming.

The question is, does scripture show us a pretrib coming? Certainly it does. Paul shows us His coming for the church as just before wrath or just before the start of the Day of the Lord. I suspect the rapture will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord.

John confirms this by showing us the great crowd too large to number - the just raptured church - in heaven before any part of the 70th week has started. (John starts the 70th week at the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment.)

Question: which statement would be more of a comfort:

A. The rapture will come before any part of God's wrath begins - the Day of the Lord or the 70th week.
B. The rapture will come after all the judgments of Revelation have finished, meaning the church must be on earth during the days of great tribulation.

I personally believe A above is far more of a comfort. I also believe that if anyone desires and chooses to be left behind to live through the days of great tribulation, I think God will honor their choice. I believe a far better choice is to choose God's plan of escape.

God said the Second Coming shall come after the Great Tribulation. Please show us where God has said this. I don't believe God has ever said this.

At this time, the Raptured ones will be coming back down with Him in clouds. Instead of partaking in God's wrath, they have been partaking in the Marriage Feast.

This I can agree with! YES! At the Rev. 19 coming, we are coming WITH Him, having just enjoyed the marriage and supper in heaven.

 

[DavidTree]

?How does the Jew and the Gentile come to Salvation?
Hearing(hearken).....just like was said...

His "Bride" includes angels?

If ya dont know, just say it please..

lol, i know the Scripture dear Sister.

Who told you the lie that His Saints/Elect/Overcomers are NOT preaching the Gospel in Revelation?

Do you also reject the words of Christ the LORD? Matt24

While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples(His Bride) came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”
Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you.
For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
10At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, 11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.
12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Is believing the lie of 'pre-trib' more precious to you then the words of Christ?

 

[lamad]

Truth ony comes from the words of God and not from the carnal desires of mens hearts.

The lie of pre-trib is evil, carnal and never came out of the Mouth of God.

This is why no one can bring forth a 'pre-trib' scripture for it never was spoken by the LORD or the Apostles or the Prophets.

Beware: if pretrib is TRUTH - and it is - you are calling truth a lie. This calling truth a lie fits well with the season, but I don't think it will please God.

Did you notice that in 1 Thes. 4 & 5, Paul wrote of the rapture first, before the Day of the Lord and before wrath?
Did you notice that John saw the great crowd, too large to number, in heaven, before any part of the 70th week has started in John's narrative? (John did not write of seeing this great crowd in Revelation 19 where some imagine a rapture.)

Did you not notice that Luke mentions a way of escape?
Did you not notice that Paul in 2 Thes. 2 shows us a significant departing BEFORE the man of sin can be revealed?
Did you notice the reason why the departing comes before the revealing? There is a power holding back or preventing the revealing of the man of sin before the proper time. But when that proper time comes, the power restraining the revealing will be "take out of the way."

Where is the rapture in John's Revelation narrative and timeline?
Where is the 70th week in John's Revelation narrative and timeline?

 

[lamad]

lol, i know the Scripture dear Sister.

Who told you the lie that His Saints/Elect/Overcomers are NOT preaching the Gospel in Revelation?

Do you also reject the words of Christ the LORD? Matt24

While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples(His Bride) came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”
Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you.
For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
10At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, 11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.
12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Is believing the lie of 'pre-trib' more precious to you then the words of Christ?

Sorry, but the rapture will certainly be pretrib. Anything else is a lie.

 

[DavidTree]

I am not sure I understand this post. "Second" in relation to His coming is used only once in Scripture and even then the words is "appearing," not "coming."

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

I believe we could understand this as a "second" coming, His first being when He came to bear the sins of many. Since we all are adults and have learned to count, IF there is a pretrib coming, that would be His second time to appear. There can be no IF for His coming as shown in Rev. 19: that is a guaranteed coming after the days of great tribulation. Again, IF there is a pretrib SECOND coming, then His coming in Rev. 19 would be His THIRD coming.

The question is, does scripture show us a pretrib coming? Certainly it does. Paul shows us His coming for the church as just before wrath or just before the start of the Day of the Lord. I suspect the rapture will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord.

John confirms this by showing us the great crowd too large to number - the just raptured church - in heaven before any part of the 70th week has started. (John starts the 70th week at the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment.)

Question: which statement would be more of a comfort:

A. The rapture will come before any part of God's wrath begins - the Day of the Lord or the 70th week.
B. The rapture will come after all the judgments of Revelation have finished, meaning the church must be on earth during the days of great tribulation.

I personally believe A above is far more of a comfort. I also believe that if anyone desires and chooses to be left behind to live through the days of great tribulation, I think God will honor their choice. I believe a far better choice is to choose God's plan of escape.

God said the Second Coming shall come after the Great Tribulation. Please show us where God has said this. I don't believe God has ever said this.

At this time, the Raptured ones will be coming back down with Him in clouds. Instead of partaking in God's wrath, they have been partaking in the Marriage Feast.

This I can agree with! YES! At the Rev. 19 coming, we are coming WITH Him, having just enjoyed the marriage and supper in heaven.

You added a lot of your own words and placed them on top of God's words.
Here are your statements that are accusatory against God's words and Scripture.
#1 - "John confirms this by showing us the great crowd too large to number - the just raptured church"
#2 - "in heaven before any part of the 70th week has started."
#3 - "The question is, does scripture show us a pretrib coming? Certainly it does."
#4 - "I also believe that if anyone desires and chooses to be left behind to live through the days of great tribulation, I think God will honor their choice. I believe a far better choice is to choose God's plan of escape."
#5 God said the Second Coming shall come after the Great Tribulation. Please show us where God has said this. I don't believe God has ever said this.

satanism(Genesis 3:1-5) = Whenever someone rejects the words of God and/or seeks to redefine what God has said.

 

[lamad]

Follow the words of CHRIST and the Apostles - Do Not add or take away from Scripture = lawlessness.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

God said His Resurrection will take place after the Great Tribulation and not a day before.
God says the gathering of His Elect/His Saints/His Overcomers will occur AFTER the FIRST Resurrection at His Coming.

Matthew 24 = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 = 2 Thess 2:1-12 = Revelation 6:9-11 = Revelation chs 19&20

God said His Resurrection will take place after the Great Tribulation and not a day before.

Which resurrection? Certainly the timing of the "Second Death" resurrection will be after the tribulation of those days. Certainly the timing of the resurrection of the beheaded during those days of great tribulation will be after the days of GT. However, Jesus' resurrection as the firstfruits of the resurrection (He was the first man to raise from the dead with a resurrection body). Some long time after Jesus' resurrection, the church will be resurrected. Perhaps about 3 1/2 years after the church is resurrected, the 144,000 will be resurrected - since John saw them in heaven in Rev. 14. After that, the Old Testament saints must be resurrected - probably on the last 24 hour day of the 70th week - which would be at the 7th vial.

Therefore I can agree there will be two resurrections that will come after the days of GT, but there will also be more than one resurrection before the days of GT.

God says the gathering of His Elect/His Saints/His Overcomers will occur AFTER the FIRST Resurrection at His Coming.
This is more myth than truth. Yes, there will be a gathering after the tribulation of those days, but it will not be a gathering of the church saints: they will be coming WITH Him. Neither will it be a gathering of the Old Testament saints: they too will be coming WITH Him at His Rev. 19 coming. In fact, heaven will be nearly empty for the armies of heaven will come with Him. The gathering Mathew speaks of will be God gathering all the descendants of Jacob left alive on earth after the tribulation of those days.

 

[DavidTree]

Sorry, but the rapture will certainly be pretrib. Anything else is a lie.

My generation holds fast to Truth and we have a saying that our Lord used against satan: Put up or shut up

Now PROVE your words - Bring forth the Scripture where Christ says:
"I will come for My Elect/Body/Saints/Overcomers BEFORE the Tribulation"

You are challenging Scripture and the Truth of God - i am prepared for the fight.......go for it.

 

[Runningman]

Beware: if pretrib is TRUTH - and it is - you are calling truth a lie. This calling truth a lie fits well with the season, but I don't think it will please God.

Did you notice that in 1 Thes. 4 & 5, Paul wrote of the rapture first, before the Day of the Lord and before wrath?
Did you notice that John saw the great crowd, too large to number, in heaven, before any part of the 70th week has started in John's narrative? (John did not write of seeing this great crowd in Revelation 19 where some imagine a rapture.)

Did you not notice that Luke mentions a way of escape?
Did you not notice that Paul in 2 Thes. 2 shows us a significant departing BEFORE the man of sin can be revealed?
Did you notice the reason why the departing comes before the revealing? There is a power holding back or preventing the revealing of the man of sin before the proper time. But when that proper time comes, the power restraining the revealing will be "take out of the way."

Where is the rapture in John's Revelation narrative and timeline?
Where is the 70th week in John's Revelation narrative and timeline?

Compare Mark 13:24-27 with 1 Thessalonians 4:17. God's people are taken from the surface of the Earth to Earth's atmosphere - the air, the sky. This is also sometimes referred to as the heavens in scripture. It's the place where Jesus will come on the clouds. See that now? Pre-trib doesn't fit.

 

[DavidTree]

God said His Resurrection will take place after the Great Tribulation and not a day before.

Which resurrection? Certainly the timing of the "Second Death" resurrection will be after the tribulation of those days. Certainly the timing of the resurrection of the beheaded during those days of great tribulation will be after the days of GT. However, Jesus' resurrection as the firstfruits of the resurrection (He was the first man to raise from the dead with a resurrection body). Some long time after Jesus' resurrection, the church will be resurrected. Perhaps about 3 1/2 years after the church is resurrected, the 144,000 will be resurrected - since John saw them in heaven in Rev. 14. After that, the Old Testament saints must be resurrected - probably on the last 24 hour day of the 70th week - which would be at the 7th vial.

Therefore I can agree there will be two resurrections that will come after the days of GT, but there will also be more than one resurrection before the days of GT.

God says the gathering of His Elect/His Saints/His Overcomers will occur AFTER the FIRST Resurrection at His Coming.
This is more myth than truth. Yes, there will be a gathering after the tribulation of those days, but it will not be a gathering of the church saints: they will be coming WITH Him. Neither will it be a gathering of the Old Testament saints: they too will be coming WITH Him at His Rev. 19 coming. In fact, heaven will be nearly empty for the armies of heaven will come with Him. The gathering Mathew speaks of will be God gathering all the descendants of Jacob left alive on earth after the tribulation of those days.

SEE Post #2,807

And abide by Scripture ONLY - your words and mine hold no value = ONLY SCRIPTURE

 

[lamad]

You added a lot of your own words and placed them on top of God's words.
Here are your statements that are accusatory against God's words and Scripture.
#1 - "John confirms this by showing us the great crowd too large to number - the just raptured church"
#2 - "in heaven before any part of the 70th week has started."
#3 - "The question is, does scripture show us a pretrib coming? Certainly it does."
#4 - "I also believe that if anyone desires and chooses to be left behind to live through the days of great tribulation, I think God will honor their choice. I believe a far better choice is to choose God's plan of escape."
#5 God said the Second Coming shall come after the Great Tribulation. Please show us where God has said this. I don't believe God has ever said this.

satanism(Genesis 3:1-5) = Whenever someone rejects the words of God and/or seeks to redefine what God has said.

Can you prove by scripture that the great crowd too large to number cannot be the just raptured church? John's descripture fits the church. The timing agrees with Paul's timing.

Can you prove with scripture that the 70th week does NOT start with the first trumpet judgment? There are many hints that it does start there.

I stand by this statement: the scripture shows us a pretrib rapture.

Paul is clear that some will be left behind to face "sudden destruction." It will only be those "in Christ" who are going up in the rapture. All NOT "in Christ" will be left behind. Everything we get from heaven we get by faith. I believe God HONORS our faith. Therefore it makes sense that if people are BELIEVING (that means faith) that they will see the Beast, I think God will honor their faith and belief.

Do you deny that Luke wrote of a plan of escape?

Show us where God said the "second coming shall come after the Great Tribulation." CAN you show us?

 

[DavidTree]

Can you prove by scripture that the great crowd too large to number cannot be the just raptured church? John's descripture fits the church. The timing agrees with Paul's timing.

Can you prove with scripture that the 70th week does NOT start with the first trumpet judgment? There are many hints that it does start there.

I stand by this statement: the scripture shows us a pretrib rapture.

Paul is clear that some will be left behind to face "sudden destruction." It will only be those "in Christ" who are going up in the rapture. All NOT "in Christ" will be left behind. Everything we get from heaven we get by faith. I believe God HONORS our faith. Therefore it makes sense that if people are BELIEVING (that means faith) that they will see the Beast, I think God will honor their faith and belief.

Do you deny that Luke wrote of a plan of escape?

Show us where God said the "second coming shall come after the Great Tribulation." CAN you show us?

You are arguing a false belief system of man-made doctrine just as a Roman Catholic does to support their false doctrines.

See Post #2,807

Bring forth the Scripture where the LORD says: "I will rapture My Elect BEFORE the Tribulation and/or BEFORE the First Resurretcion"

 

[lamad]

My generation holds fast to Truth and we have a saying that our Lord used against satan: Put up or shut up

Now PROVE your words - Bring forth the Scripture where Christ says:
"I will come for My Elect/Body/Saints/Overcomers BEFORE the Tribulation"

You are challenging Scripture and the Truth of God - i am prepared for the fight.......go for it.

Perhaps you can show us where Christ says "I will come for My Elect/Body/Saints/Overcomers AFTER the Tribulation"

You know there is no direct and clear scripture where God declares the timing of His coming. That is why there is so much disagreement. However, that being said, God has told us, but not in so many words.

Case in point: Paul put the rapture before the Day of the Lord and before Wrath in 1 Thes. You are trying to reverse Paul and place his gathering AFTER the days of God's wrath on earth. My friend, it is you hare are challenging scripture. Again, John saw this great crowd in Revelation chapter 7, NOT in chapter 19.

 

[Runningman]

Perhaps you can show us where Christ says "I will come for My Elect/Body/Saints/Overcomers AFTER the Tribulation"

That's mentioned in the Olivet Discourse. What do you disagree with about it?

 

[lamad]

SEE Post #2,807

And abide by Scripture ONLY - your words and mine hold no value = ONLY SCRIPTURE

True. So why did you write "1 Thess & 2 Thess clearly states there is no pre-trib rapture " That is only your opinion.

 

[DavidTree]

Perhaps you can show us where Christ says "I will come for My Elect/Body/Saints/Overcomers AFTER the Tribulation"

You know there is no direct and clear scripture where God declares the timing of His coming. That is why there is so much disagreement. However, that being said, God has told us, but not in so many words.

Case in point: Paul put the rapture before the Day of the Lord and before Wrath in 1 Thes. You are trying to reverse Paul and place his gathering AFTER the days of God's wrath on earth. My friend, it is you hare are challenging scripture. Again, John saw this great crowd in Revelation chapter 7, NOT in chapter 19.

You never read the Gospels???

Matthew chapter 24
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for [a]all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Great Tribulation
15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.
26“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[DavidTree]

True. So why did you write "1 Thess & 2 Thess clearly states there is no pre-trib rapture " That is only your opinion.

1 Thess and 2 Thess is 'my opinion' - HELLO - these are the words of our LORD given to the Apostle Paul to us.

In all your posts you add your opinion on top of God's words - this is SIN

Now - Scripture ONLY

Christ said HE is coming AFTER the Tribulation for His Elect - Matthew 24:29-31

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[lamad]

That's mentioned in the Olivet Discourse. What do you disagree with about it?

I disagree that the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture. I believe it is after both the rapture of the church and the resurrection of the Old Testament saints both. When Jesus comes as shown in Revelation 19, heaven is emptied: all the saints come WITH Him. All the saints will be returned to earth from the marriage and supper.

 

[lamad]

1 Thess and 2 Thess is 'my opinion' - HELLO - these are the words of our LORD given to the Apostle Paul to us.

In all your posts you add your opinion on top of God's words - this is SIN

No, what you wrote is what you THINK Paul wrote.

 

[DavidTree]

I disagree that the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture. I believe it is after both the rapture of the church and the resurrection of the Old Testament saints both. When Jesus comes as shown in Revelation 19, heaven is emptied: all the saints come WITH Him. All the saints will be returned to earth from the marriage and supper.

EXACTLY - you disagree with the LORD who said HE is coming "Immeiately after the Tribulation"

Now PROVE where HE is wrong - lol - from Scripture ONLY

 

[lamad]

You never read the Gospels???

Matthew chapter 24
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for [a]all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Great Tribulation
15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.
26“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

WHO (to what people group) is the Olivet Discourse directed to? Were Gentile Christians taken to a synagogue to be beating? NO! JEWISH Christians perhaps were taken to a synagogue. Is the 70th week of Daniel for Gentiles? NO! Daniel is clear, it is for HIS people, the Jews and by extension, all Hebrew people. This is further proven by Jesus speaking of the abomination that will divide the week. What is the purpose of the 70th week? Do you know? Daniel 12 tells us: it is God completely shattering the power of the Hebrew people and the nation of Israel, so they finally get to the place where ONLY GOD can save them. This has nothing to do with the Gentile church of today. Why then do you insist on placing the church in the 70th week?

By the way, there is a difference in reading the scriptures and understanding them. Blindness in part has been put upon the descendants of Jacob while God turned to the Gentiles. He is waiting for the fullness of the Gentiles to come in. The Jews have just had to wait (partly in blindness) for the fullness of the Gentiles. But the moment the final church age martyr will have been martyred, (God knows the number) the rapture will take place and the church age will end. "Time" will instantly then be "Day of the Lord" time. And very shortly after that, (the 6th seal starts the Day) the 7th seal starts the 70th week.

By the time verse 30 above will happen, heaven will be emptied: all who participated in the marriage and supper - both the Old and New Testament saints - will return with Christ. The only group left to gather will be all the descendants of Jacob around the world that will have survived the days of GT. God will gather them to Israel as He promised.