How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[ewq1938]

David, you are adding to the verse 'heaven'--it does not say that. Note that it says GOD (not Jesus) will bring (figurative/spiritual) with Him those who have fallen asleep THROUGH Jesus. It does NOT say WITH Jesus. This is figurative--all the words in the bible are important even OF/ IN /THE /THRU/ BUT, etc. It says in the same section "16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [d]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (they are NOT coming down to rise again--that would be nonsensical)

I agree. I have posted the dead in Christ resurrect in heaven into new bodies not return to their old bodies on Earth and resurrect there.

 

[DavidTree]

However, as I've mentioned in past post, the text states, "shall God bring WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him"




[ (the text itself doesn't seem to agree with how you're presenting it)]

We are currently unioned with Christ now.
Just as my wife and i were joined together at our wedding lifted up on two chairs and lifted UP above everyone.

But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

 

[DavidTree]

I agree. I have posted the dead in Christ resurrect in heaven into new bodies not return to their old bodies on Earth and resurrect there.

i have not yet commenced on the search but here is just one:

Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isaiah 26:19

Our bodies are in the earth. The earth/water/air is a closed environment.

This environment is one big tomb for the dead (bodies of flesh only).

Our spirits leave our bodies when we die - you know this- Yes/No?

 

[ewq1938]

i have not yet commenced on the search but here is just one:

Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isaiah 26:19

This is not speaking of end times resurrection though. Everything about that event places it in heaven.

Our spirits leave our bodies when we die - you know this- Yes/No?

Yes.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Just as my wife and i were joined together at our wedding lifted up on two chairs and lifted UP above everyone.

But before you were joined in marriage, were you not "betrothed"? (today we similarly call that "engaged")

2Cor11:2... where the "betrothed" thing precedes the "TO PRESENT [G3936]" thing

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

G3936 (as in) -

2 Corinthians 4:14 V-FIA-3S
GRK: ἐγερεῖ καὶ παραστήσει σὺν ὑμῖν
NAS: with Jesus and will present us with you.
KJV: and shall present [us] with
INT: will raise up and will present with you

2 Corinthians 11:2 V-ANA
GRK: παρθένον ἁγνὴν παραστῆσαι τῷ χριστῷ
NAS: so that to Christ I might present you [as] a pure
KJV: husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste
INT: a virgin pure to present [you] to Christ

Ephesians 5:27 V-ASA-3S
GRK: ἵνα παραστήσῃ αὐτὸς ἑαυτῷ
NAS: that He might present to Himself
KJV: That he might present it to himself
INT: that he might present it to himself

Colossians 1:22 V-ANA
GRK: τοῦ θανάτου παραστῆσαι ὑμᾶς ἁγίους
NAS: death, in order to present you before
KJV: through death, to present you holy
INT: the death to present you holy

 

[DavidTree]

This is not speaking of end times resurrection though. Everything about that event places it in heaven.



Yes.

Throw me some scripture so i can review - will be checking out soon

Too many people getting upset over things and i hope we do not go there, as for myself, it is wonderful to be corrected as i see it as a blessing and not as if i failed in any way.

Please allow time for discovery and for you to share without a immediate response one way or the other.

If we go back and forth, which we should, allow the Holy Spirit to guide our hearts and words ( i make mistakes)

My keyboard sticks so if letter(s) or word is jumbled just let me know

Edit is a short 5 min window

Thank You

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"betrothed"? (today we similarly call that "engaged")

...except, in scripture, "betrothal" is as legally-binding as the marriage itself (they just are apart physically until the marriage union)

 

[DavidTree]

...except, in scripture, "betrothal" is as legally-binding as the marriage itself (they just are apart physically until the marriage union)

i gotta go - thank you - if i do not respond, i am not ignoring you

 

[ewq1938]

Throw me some scripture so i can review - will be checking out soon

Too many people getting upset over things and i hope we do not go there, as for myself, it is wonderful to be corrected as i see it as a blessing and not as if i failed in any way.

Please allow time for discovery and for you to share without a immediate response one way or the other.

If we go back and forth, which we should, allow the Holy Spirit to guide our hearts and words ( i make mistakes)

My keyboard sticks so if letter(s) or word is jumbled just let me know

Edit is a short 5 min window

Thank You

I already sent it all to you in a PM days ago.

 

[DavidTree]

This is not speaking of end times resurrection though. Everything about that event places it in heaven.



Yes.

When(scripture) do you see this???

 

[DavidTree]

I already sent it all to you in a PM days ago.

Great i will use that - ty

 

[YoNeighbor]

No one taught a pre-trib rapture until John Darby, and Anglican preacher, in the mid 1800s. So the teaching is relatively new. Now, being new does not necessarily mean a teaching is defunct: while God never changes, He reveals knowledge and understanding in a progressive manner. Things that we have not contemplated before, suddenly come alive to us in the scriptures. So, while the ideas are new to us, they were always established in the mind of God.

But the manner is which things are "revealed" should be examined. So let's look at the manner in which the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture came to be a Baptist staple.

Dwight Young, professor emeritus at Brandeis University of Near Eastern and Judaic Studies, personally corresponded with a friend of mine several years ago. My friend was a young lawyer ( as an aside, had George Bush Senior been elected for a second term, there is a good possibility that my friend would have been chosen as a state supreme court judge.) Dwight was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary at the same time Hal Lindsey studied there, so this is more than 50 years ago or so. They were graduate students.

Dwight said the professors were discussing Darbyism, and whether or not it was a valid theology. This graduate student, Hal Lindsey, wrote a master’s thesis on the subject of this form of dispensationalism and the rapture. He later turned that thesis into a book called The Late Great Planet Earth. Now some of you may not know about this book, but it was a runaway bestseller. It made a lot of money. According to Dwight, that is where the Baptists made the switch. They saw that there was a market for this doctrine, and they ran with it. Dwight later moved up to and was a professor of biblical studies, biblical languages at Brandeis University, from which he retired, and he was in a state of retirement when my friend met him. So, 50 years from the writing of a master's thesis, the teaching is so entrenched in the Baptist circles you would think it was the gospel.

Historically, nobody ever thought of this doctrine before Darby. But once he popularized it in the context of dispensationalism, meaning things wrap up within blocks of time, people began to embrace it because they did not have to trust the Holy Spirit. If you are going to have any measure of understanding of prophetic Scripture, the end from the beginning and where we are at this point in time, you are going to have to walk in the Spirit. He is the One who wrote the Book; He is the One who is perfectly capable of interpreting it. And the folly of logic and reason and man-made constructs, such as dispensationalism, will lead you to increasing folly, such as the rapture.

God knows the end from the beginning, and the greatest moment of the Body of Christ is in the midst of the darkness in Revelation. That darkness has no potential to blunt our display of the glory of God, the radiance of God’s glory, or to represent Him exactly. It has no ability to influence that at all. This is the time for the glory of what God has been doing, when He established the heavens and the earth for the purpose of establishing a corporate man in creation so that He might be seen in creation as who He is. He is on a path wherein not only will He show who He is in all of His glory through the corporate body, but He will bring the enemy to judgment as well.

Grace and Peace,

Aaron56

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
...so "the last day", 🤔

 

[peldom10]

Never mind who taught what....what does he Bible say?
The Bible says pre-trib rapture.

I am always concerned when a christian rely's on writings without it being confirmed by God's word.

 

[cv5]

Hi DWM--I can't recall which one I responded to but I stand corrected--Isaiah--i can't find the tab with the verse, but says 'bodies' are raised--so I guess we area all standing around in our yucky bodies at the Great Throne Judgment and then....we get our celestial bodies? I'll need to pray about that one--it's really astounding and strange to think about.... (but I am confused since it does say we will be changed in a twinkling of an eye--we live in TIME so I guess our mind tries to fit all that happens into TIME. Oy Vey!

Yes you are definitely confused. Give it time and keep at it.....

 

[ewq1938]

The Bible says pre-trib rapture.

No it doesn't. It says Post-trib. This is why Pretribs NEVER actually post the two passages where rapture is discussed. They always post things unrelated to the rapture as their "support".

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.

 

[cv5]

No it doesn't. It says Post-trib. This is why Pretribs NEVER actually post the two passages where rapture is discussed. They always post things unrelated to the rapture as their "support".

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.

No you've got that all wrong.

1 Thes 4.....addresses the Church only. The final and full expression of the mystery of Ephesians 3 et al.

Matthew 24.....addresses Israel only. Fulfills the Abrahamic, Palestinian and Davidic covenants.

Utterly profoundly and entirely mutually exclusive. Conflating their distinctiveness is your biggest problem. You've got to sort this out because if you don't you'll never truly comprehend eschatology correctly.

 

[Laura798]

Yes you are definitely confused. Give it time and keep at it.....

CV5, I believe you are an extremely bored sixth grader--go find some boys your own age to play with. You are out of your league here.

 

[Laura798]

CV5, I believe you are an extremely bored sixth grader--go find some boys your own age to play with. You are out of your league here.

CV5--I'll add to that insecure--"People chop the heads off of others to make themselves feel taller."

 

[cv5]

CV5--I'll add to that insecure--"People chop the heads off of others to make themselves feel taller."

Are you pretending to be a psychiatrist or psychologist? Well, you are not fooling me not even a little bit.

Your pretensions to be a Bible scholar have likewise failed miserably.......