How to be Born Again

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brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Sure. You have been given Scripture and you don't believe it.

See how that works? Try a better approach.

Like quoting verses that actually say what you claim. So far, you haven't. And when you do quote verses, you are given explanations of the verses that prove that they don't say what you think they mean.

otoh, you don't even bother trying to explain any of the verses that we have provided. All you do is regurgitate your talking points.
Lol, you dont even believe the scripture you gave mr.
 

brightfame52

Active member
Nov 21, 2020
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Then quote at least 1 verse for teach letter. Can you?


The truth is that man is totally unable to save himself.

Calvinism goes way too far by claiming that man can't believe unless he is regenerated. So prove that with verses.

But I've already refuted the notion that regeneration precedes faith.

Eph 2:5 equates regeneration (made alive) with salvation (have been saved).

Eph 2:8 says plainly that we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH.

That PROVES that faith must be present in order to be saved.

And that is EXACTLY how Paul answered the jailer.

Acts 16-
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

If calvinism was biblical, Paul's answer WOULD HAVE BEEN THIS:

There's absolutely nothing you can do to be saved. God already decided before the foundation of the world who would be saved unconditionally.

Hm. But he didn't give the jailer any of the calvinist talking points.
You already rejecting total inability. Man naturally isnt able to believe in Christ Jn 6:44
 

brightfame52

Active member
Nov 21, 2020
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Come on ,one verse that SAYS what you believe, surely this can be done ?
Let's see 1 ) regeneration precedes faith
2) Irresistible grace
3) Cannot believe the Gospel.
4) Faith is an exclusive gift ,withheld from some.
5) Repentance is withheld from some
6 ) born with the guilt of Adam.
7) Chosen to be saved before the foundation of the world .
8) predestined to be saved before we were born
9 ) Elected to salvation
10) God causes belief in those he saves .
And on and on and on ....
Just one verse that SAYS any of the above ?
You been given scripture and you have rejected it.
 

FreeGrace2

Active member
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
I don't think we can claim that God reveals Himself differently to different people. Romans 1:19-21 does not allow such thinking.
That is the oddest most erroneous interpretation of Romans 1
I have ever seen

Maybe you don't understand what the verse says.

wrong because it does not say nobody experiences
God any differently than anybody else.
You mean it's "wrong" because it doesn't say something? Again, it seems you just don't understand what it does say.

I always go with what a verse actually does say. Not what it doesn't say. Which seems to be a default argument for some.

I am not sure why you would even want to try to make that stinker float
So Romans 1:19-21 is a "stinker", huh. Wow.

since the Bible is full of stories written by and about people who had unique experiences of God.
That isn't the point, which apparently you missed.

The point was about how God reveals Himself to the world. And Romans 1:19-21 states how very clearly.
 

FreeGrace2

Active member
Jan 31, 2021
643
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FreeGrace2 said:
Sure. You have been given Scripture and you don't believe it.

See how that works? Try a better approach.

Like quoting verses that actually say what you claim. So far, you haven't. And when you do quote verses, you are given explanations of the verses that prove that they don't say what you think they mean.

otoh, you don't even bother trying to explain any of the verses that we have provided. All you do is regurgitate your talking points.
Lol, you dont even believe the scripture you gave mr.
I always include my quotes before your "responses" for context.

I never gave any Scripture to a mr. I gave it to you. Probably a typo.

Under whose authority do you claim for your wildly ridiculous claim that I don't believe the verses that I gave to you?

Maybe you confuse words. You may think "believe" and "understand" are synonymous, but they aren't.
 

FreeGrace2

Active member
Jan 31, 2021
643
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This is what I posted:
"
FreeGrace2 said:
Then quote at least 1 verse for teach letter. Can you?


The truth is that man is totally unable to save himself.

Calvinism goes way too far by claiming that man can't believe unless he is regenerated. So prove that with verses.

But I've already refuted the notion that regeneration precedes faith.

Eph 2:5 equates regeneration (made alive) with salvation (have been saved).

Eph 2:8 says plainly that we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH.

That PROVES that faith must be present in order to be saved.

And that is EXACTLY how Paul answered the jailer.

Acts 16-
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

If calvinism was biblical, Paul's answer WOULD HAVE BEEN THIS:

There's absolutely nothing you can do to be saved. God already decided before the foundation of the world who would be saved unconditionally.

Hm. But he didn't give the jailer any of the calvinist talking points."

And this is the lame response:
You already rejecting total inability. Man naturally isnt able to believe in Christ Jn 6:44
In my post, I SAID that "man is totally unable to save himself, and you apparently can't understand what that means, so you make a blathering error about my "rejecting total inability".

The problem, once again, is your calvinist talking points keep getting in the way.

The issue is salvation. Man cannot save himself. That is total depravity or total inability.

If man is unable to believe, why haven't you proven it from Scripture YET?

Because everyone, including you, KNOW full well that there are no such verses.

Rom 10:10 says man believes from the heart.

Acts 14:2 and 19:9 both say that men "refused to believe". That PROVES ability.
 

brightfame52

Active member
Nov 21, 2020
704
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What is the calvinist response to this verse:

1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

From all the claims that calvinists say, this verse seems to be saying that ONLY the unrighteous had their sins covered by Christ.

So, what does that mean for the non-unrighteous?

I know calvinists don't believe that Christ die for the so-called "non-elect".

So you have a dilemma.
This is a rabbit trail.
 

brightfame52

Active member
Nov 21, 2020
704
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OK, fair enough. So, who are "His people"? Calvinists in unison will say (shout) THE ELECT!

OK, please explain 1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

We know that Christ is "the righteous". So who are the "unrighteous" then?

If the "unrighteous" here refers to "the elect", then Christ did only die for them, being unrighteous, you know.
'
So what does that mean for the rest of humanity. They aren't considered unrighteous and Christ didn't need to die for their sins.

So, by claiming that Christ only died for the "elect", and knowing 1 Peter 3:18, calvinism actually teaches universalism.

Christ didn't need to die for the non-elect since they aren't described as unrighteous.

Calvinism has a terrible time trying to understand Scripture.
His eople are His Elect, Sheep, Church, the foreknown.
 

brightfame52

Active member
Nov 21, 2020
704
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throughfaith said:
Matt 1 is before the cross . Which is a handy verse for a calvinist . But the focus is Israel ( He came to his own ) Now read
1 John 2:2

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

v.2 is perhaps the clearest verse in the Bible about the fact that Christ died for all of humanity

The words "not or ours ONLY" refers to believers.

The words "the whole world" includes everyone else. Unbelievers.
He is the propitiation for the elect, when they are believers, and when they are unbelievers.
 

brightfame52

Active member
Nov 21, 2020
704
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I believe what this says .
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1.13
Do you believe this verse ? is there anything wrong with what it SAYS ?
Doesn't this verse refute what you believe ? If it doesn't ,which is the verse that SAYS why this verse, as it reads ,doesn't mean what it says?
notice WE trusted AFTER WE heard the word of truth , the Gospel . And AFTER WE believed we were sealed by the Holy Spirit . ( saved / regenerated)
look at the order . Wouldn't this be an ideal time to SAY regeneration comes before the rest ?
What would be the reason we can't believe the verse as it says ?
It doesnt say after they believed they were regenerated. Sealed Yes, regenerated no, you made that up, handling the word dishonestly.
 

brightfame52

Active member
Nov 21, 2020
704
53
28
This is what I posted:
"
FreeGrace2 said:
Then quote at least 1 verse for teach letter. Can you?


The truth is that man is totally unable to save himself.

Calvinism goes way too far by claiming that man can't believe unless he is regenerated. So prove that with verses.

But I've already refuted the notion that regeneration precedes faith.

Eph 2:5 equates regeneration (made alive) with salvation (have been saved).

Eph 2:8 says plainly that we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH.

That PROVES that faith must be present in order to be saved.

And that is EXACTLY how Paul answered the jailer.

Acts 16-
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

If calvinism was biblical, Paul's answer WOULD HAVE BEEN THIS:

There's absolutely nothing you can do to be saved. God already decided before the foundation of the world who would be saved unconditionally.

Hm. But he didn't give the jailer any of the calvinist talking points."

And this is the lame response:

In my post, I SAID that "man is totally unable to save himself, and you apparently can't understand what that means, so you make a blathering error about my "rejecting total inability".

The problem, once again, is your calvinist talking points keep getting in the way.

The issue is salvation. Man cannot save himself. That is total depravity or total inability.

If man is unable to believe, why haven't you proven it from Scripture YET?

Because everyone, including you, KNOW full well that there are no such verses.

Rom 10:10 says man believes from the heart.

Acts 14:2 and 19:9 both say that men "refused to believe". That PROVES ability.
Man is totally unable to come/believe on Christ ! Jn 6:44
 
Mar 14, 2011
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It doesnt say after they believed they were regenerated. Sealed Yes, regenerated no, you made that up, handling the word dishonestly.
yeah, We are sealed with the HS. but not regenerated yet. still dead in sin.

SMH
 

FreeGrace2

Active member
Jan 31, 2021
643
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FreeGrace2 said:
What is the calvinist response to this verse:

1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
This is a rabbit trail.
OK, now I know the calvinist response to 1 Peter 3:18; it's just a rabbit trail.

I should have expected that kind of response, since you've already admitted that you don't care how many verses refute your talking points.
 

FreeGrace2

Active member
Jan 31, 2021
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I asked this:
"OK, please explain 1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

We know that Christ is "the righteous". So who are the "unrighteous" then?"
His eople are His Elect, Sheep, Church, the foreknown.
OK, now we're getting somewhere.

The calvinist explanation of 1 Pter 3:18 is that "the unrighteous" refers to His elect, sheep, church, the foreknown.

If that is so, then Christ wouldn't have needed to die for the rest of us, who are NOT described as "the unrighteous".

What you obviously miss is that such a view leads directly to UNIVERSALISM, in that Christ died for "the unrighteous" or elect, so they would go to heaven, and He didn't need to die for the rest of mankind, who are NOT "the unrighteous", who will OBVIOUSLY also go to heaven.

So your theology is really that everyone will go to heaven.

Interesting.
 

FreeGrace2

Active member
Jan 31, 2021
643
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Now read
1 John 2:2

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

v.2 is perhaps the clearest verse in the Bible about the fact that Christ died for all of humanity

The words "not or ours ONLY" refers to believers.

The words "the whole world" includes everyone else. Unbelievers.
He is the propitiation for the elect, when they are believers, and when they are unbelievers.
You have quite a knack for totally twisting clear verses totally out of their meaning.

1 John 2:2 says NOTHING about "when" anyone is "anything". But of course it's no problem for you to ADD to Scripture in order to justify your misunderstanding of theology.

There is nothing in ANY of John's epistles to lead anyone to understand "whole world" to mean only believers/elect, etc.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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Man is totally unable to come/believe on Christ ! Jn 6:44
Here is the verse. Let's see what it DOES say.

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It says nothing about believing. And nothing about being "totally unable".

But you still miss the point in the context.

The next verse, for example.

45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

First, John makes the point that "all" or everyone will be taught by God. Not some, or most, or many, etc. It says all.

Now the point. It is EVERYONE who HAS LISTENED AND LEARNED from the Father who will come to Jesus.

Since you are using a computer to communicate on this forum, I will assume that you have been through school and therefore have observed many many classmates over your school years.

Does EVERYONE listen and learn from the teacher?
Is listening and learning a choice that is made?

Can people not pay attention in class?

Isa 48:18 -
If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your well-being like the waves of the sea.

Pretty clear, huh.

Romans 1:19-21 PROVES accountability because no one has an excuse:

19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

So, who is 'without excuse'? People. Not some people, or many people, or a few people. People. That means everyone.

These verses prove that ANYONE and EVERYONE can glorify Him as God AND can give rthanks to Him, just as Cornelius did BEFORE he was saved by Peter's message. Acts 10-11.

If you had only paid attention to Scripture you would have known these things.
 

brightfame52

Active member
Nov 21, 2020
704
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FreeGrace2 said:
What is the calvinist response to this verse:

1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

OK, now I know the calvinist response to 1 Peter 3:18; it's just a rabbit trail.

I should have expected that kind of response, since you've already admitted that you don't care how many verses refute your talking points.
Rabbit trail.
 

brightfame52

Active member
Nov 21, 2020
704
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Here is the verse. Let's see what it DOES say.

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It says nothing about believing. And nothing about being "totally unable".

But you still miss the point in the context.

The next verse, for example.

45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

First, John makes the point that "all" or everyone will be taught by God. Not some, or most, or many, etc. It says all.

Now the point. It is EVERYONE who HAS LISTENED AND LEARNED from the Father who will come to Jesus.

Since you are using a computer to communicate on this forum, I will assume that you have been through school and therefore have observed many many classmates over your school years.

Does EVERYONE listen and learn from the teacher?
Is listening and learning a choice that is made?

Can people not pay attention in class?

Isa 48:18 -
If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your well-being like the waves of the sea.

Pretty clear, huh.

Romans 1:19-21 PROVES accountability because no one has an excuse:

19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

So, who is 'without excuse'? People. Not some people, or many people, or a few people. People. That means everyone.

These verses prove that ANYONE and EVERYONE can glorify Him as God AND can give rthanks to Him, just as Cornelius did BEFORE he was saved by Peter's message. Acts 10-11.

If you had only paid attention to Scripture you would have known these things.
You dont understand much do you ? Coming and Believing are synonyms in scripture in this regard, notice Jn 6:35,64-65


And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

So again, man naturally cant come/believe on Christ ! He doesnt have the ability.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Lots of clues.
Here is one from wiki

"""Another explanation for the name Yehoshua is that it comes from the root ישע‎ yod-shin-'ayin, meaning "to deliver, save, or rescue". ... The name Yeshua is a shortened version of the name Yehoshua or Joshua and is the literal Hebrew word for Salvation.""".
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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" Jesus is the good news " . Yes but what about Jesus and when ? His birth ? If you were there at his birth what about Jesus would you say was good news ? It certainly was bad news for the disciples when Jesus died. They were distraught at his death . They also didn't believe the resurrection either . So the resurrection was not good news for them until later. Imagine us today not seeing the death and resurrection as good news ?
Think "passover"

The passover lamb was not a concept or a doctrine.

It was the animal and his blood.
Literal .
Tangable.

Jesus was/is the lamb. The sacrifice
Not to be repeated. One time sacrifice

Salvation is in a person
Not a doctrine.

If you play it backwards.. Jesus..his name and purpose IS SALVATION.

All i am doing is uncovering the root.
If i can not say " Jesus is salvation/ salvation is Jesus" then i am untaught on what salvation is.