How to be Born Again

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FreeGrace2

Banned
#741
Jan 31, 2021
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#741
FreeGrace2 said:
What is the calvinist response to this verse:

1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
brightfame52 said:
Rabbit trail.
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You're already used this response.

Don't you have an adult and reasonable response to this verse?
 
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FreeGrace2

Banned
#742
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
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#742
Here is the verse. Let's see what it DOES say.

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It says nothing about believing. And nothing about being "totally unable".

But you still miss the point in the context.

The next verse, for example.

45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

First, John makes the point that "all" or everyone will be taught by God. Not some, or most, or many, etc. It says all.

Now the point. It is EVERYONE who HAS LISTENED AND LEARNED from the Father who will come to Jesus.

Since you are using a computer to communicate on this forum, I will assume that you have been through school and therefore have observed many many classmates over your school years.

Does EVERYONE listen and learn from the teacher?
Is listening and learning a choice that is made?

Can people not pay attention in class?

Isa 48:18 -
If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your well-being like the waves of the sea.
brightfame52 said:
You dont understand much do you ? [/QUOT]
Much more than you have shown. Your responses to my verses are quite sad.

Coming and Believing are synonyms in scripture in this regard, notice Jn 6:35,64-65
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So what? Deal with v.45, which EXPLAINS WHO will come to Jesus.

Do you believe that God has taught everyone? The verse says He has.

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
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Hey, have you ever read the last 2 verses in John 6? You should. Gives proof of my claims about election.

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

So we know that Jesus ELECTED Judas, who was NEVER saved. but Judas was chosen for a purpose. He SERVED as the betrayer.

So again, man naturally cant come/believe on Christ ! He doesnt have the ability.
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There's nothing natural about your posts. You can't even interact with verses on an adult level.

John 6:45 ANSWERS the WHO of v.44 about who comes to Jesus.

It's the listeners and learners. And we know that there are those who DON'T pay attention.

Given your "responses" to my and others' posts, it seems that even YOU don't PAY ATTENTION.
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#744
Nov 21, 2020
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#744
FreeGrace2 said:
Here is the verse. Let's see what it DOES say.

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It says nothing about believing. And nothing about being "totally unable".

But you still miss the point in the context.

The next verse, for example.

45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

First, John makes the point that "all" or everyone will be taught by God. Not some, or most, or many, etc. It says all.

Now the point. It is EVERYONE who HAS LISTENED AND LEARNED from the Father who will come to Jesus.

Since you are using a computer to communicate on this forum, I will assume that you have been through school and therefore have observed many many classmates over your school years.

Does EVERYONE listen and learn from the teacher?
Is listening and learning a choice that is made?

Can people not pay attention in class?

Isa 48:18 -
If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your well-being like the waves of the sea.
Click to expand...
So again man naturally doesnt have the ability to believe/come to Christ Jn 6:44,65 He must be born again which is what the drawing entails Once a person is born again by the Spirit he or she can be taught Spiritually, otherwise the natural man receiveth not the thigs of the Spirit of God, neither can he know/understand them, because they are to be spiritually discerned/judged. 1 Cor 2:14
 
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FreeGrace2

Banned
#745
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
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#745
brightfame52 said:
So again man naturally doesnt have the ability to believe/come to Christ Jn 6:44,65
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You seem to be totally tone deaf.

You STiLL have no verses that say that man "naturally doesn't have the ability to believe". All you do is twist verses to fit your talking points.

And citing Jn 6:44 and 65 prove that you don't want to face reality. v.45 explains CLEARLY who will come to Jesus.

The phrase "God has taught everyone" is seen in Romans 1:19-21 because God has revealed Himself clearly and plainly, so that NO ONE has an excuse for not honoring Him as God and being thankful to Him. It's also seen in Titus 2:11, which says that the grace of God has APPEARED to everyone.

So there you have it. Only those who don't pay attention won't come to Jesus. And they have no excuse.

Do you even understand what "no excuse" means?

He must be born again which is what the drawing entails
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Eph 2:5 and 8 refute your regeneration before faith talking points. v.5 equates regeneration with salvation. And v.8 clearly states that we are saved THROUGH FAITH.

That means, if you understand that words mean things, that faith must be present to be saved/regenerated.

So, both salvation and regeneration, which always go together (v.5) have to be preceded by faith.

Once a person is born again by the Spirit he or she can be taught Spiritually, otherwise the natural man receiveth not the thigs of the Spirit of God, neither can he know/understand them, because they are to be spiritually discerned/judged. 1 Cor 2:14
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You are just grabbing at straws. John 6:45 says that God has taught EVERYONE. Yet, you want to wriggle around that and limit who God has taught.

But the Bible doesn't do that. And you can't defend your views.
 
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Runningman

Banned
#746
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#746
People don't control their born again status. Being born again is from God. Can someone who is in Christ be born again and still carnal? Possibly, but they won't want to be carnal. Their born again spirit from God still struggles against carnal nature of their human body.

Consider what Paul said about himself:

Romans 7:14-25
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#747
Nov 21, 2020
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#747
FreeGrace2 said:
You seem to be totally tone deaf.

You STiLL have no verses that say that man "naturally doesn't have the ability to believe". All you do is twist verses to fit your talking points.

And citing Jn 6:44 and 65 prove that you don't want to face reality. v.45 explains CLEARLY who will come to Jesus.

The phrase "God has taught everyone" is seen in Romans 1:19-21 because God has revealed Himself clearly and plainly, so that NO ONE has an excuse for not honoring Him as God and being thankful to Him. It's also seen in Titus 2:11, which says that the grace of God has APPEARED to everyone.

So there you have it. Only those who don't pay attention won't come to Jesus. And they have no excuse.

Do you even understand what "no excuse" means?


Eph 2:5 and 8 refute your regeneration before faith talking points. v.5 equates regeneration with salvation. And v.8 clearly states that we are saved THROUGH FAITH.

That means, if you understand that words mean things, that faith must be present to be saved/regenerated.

So, both salvation and regeneration, which always go together (v.5) have to be preceded by faith.


You are just grabbing at straws. John 6:45 says that God has taught EVERYONE. Yet, you want to wriggle around that and limit who God has taught.

But the Bible doesn't do that. And you can't defend your views.
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Friend you resisting the Truth, man naturally in the flesh, doesnt have the ability to believe in Christ Jn 6:44,65 !
 
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FreeGrace2

Banned
#748
Jan 31, 2021
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#748
brightfame52 said:
Friend you resisting the Truth
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No, I resist your talking points, which cannot be found in the Bible. Or you would have provided the verses.

man naturally in the flesh, doesnt have the ability to believe in Christ Jn 6:44,65 !
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Neither verse says what you keep claiming. But you don't get it.

You commit eisegesis when you do these things.

You are inserting your biased opinion of what you think the verse means.

And you have been given plenty of verses that actually SAY what I believe. That's the difference between you and me. I have verses that DO say what I claim, unlike yourself.

The actual truth resistor is yourself.

The Bible says men refuse to believe. That in itself proves that they CAN believe, but simply refuse to do so.

The Bible says men refuse to repent. That proves that men CAN repent.

No verses that say that man cannot believe. That is unbiblical.

If the Bible actually said that man cannot believe apart from regeneration, I would have to believe it. But it doesn't, so I don't believe it.

What's interesting is that you seem rather ignorant of the implications of what "refuse" means.

You have to reject reality to hold to your theology.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#749
Nov 21, 2020
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#749
FreeGrace2 said:
No, I resist your talking points, which cannot be found in the Bible. Or you would have provided the verses.


Neither verse says what you keep claiming. But you don't get it.

You commit eisegesis when you do these things.

You are inserting your biased opinion of what you think the verse means.

And you have been given plenty of verses that actually SAY what I believe. That's the difference between you and me. I have verses that DO say what I claim, unlike yourself.

The actual truth resistor is yourself.

The Bible says men refuse to believe. That in itself proves that they CAN believe, but simply refuse to do so.

The Bible says men refuse to repent. That proves that men CAN repent.

No verses that say that man cannot believe. That is unbiblical.

If the Bible actually said that man cannot believe apart from regeneration, I would have to believe it. But it doesn't, so I don't believe it.

What's interesting is that you seem rather ignorant of the implications of what "refuse" means.

You have to reject reality to hold to your theology.
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No, you resisting the plain truth, I have explained it to you. No man has the ability' to believe in Christ Jn 6:44,65 Believe Jesus !
 
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FreeGrace2

Banned
#750
Jan 31, 2021
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#750
brightfame52 said:
No, you resisting the plain truth, I have explained it to you. No man has the ability' to believe in Christ Jn 6:44,65 Believe Jesus !
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Please read 6:44 and 665 again. There is NOTHING about "can't believe" in either verse.

Why aren't you understanding that?

And your argument shows that you don't understand what "refuse" means.

So whatever you have "explained" to me is obviously not true. Because you don't understand the meaning of words.

How can you explain anything?
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#751
Nov 21, 2020
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#751
FreeGrace2 said:
Please read 6:44 and 665 again. There is NOTHING about "can't believe" in either verse.

Why aren't you understanding that?

And your argument shows that you don't understand what "refuse" means.

So whatever you have "explained" to me is obviously not true. Because you don't understand the meaning of words.

How can you explain anything?
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I have explained , you reject it.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#754
Aug 4, 2020
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#754
Ok then point me to the verse were we see a person being regenerated. Could you point to the exact moment from scripture . Is
brightfame52 said:
So again man naturally doesnt have the ability to believe/come to Christ Jn 6:44,65 He must be born again which is what the drawing entails Once a person is born again by the Spirit he or she can be taught Spiritually, otherwise the natural man receiveth not the thigs of the Spirit of God, neither can he know/understand them, because they are to be spiritually discerned/judged. 1 Cor 2:14
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John 6 comes way before the cross . After the cross Jesus draws ALL men .
John 12 .32 .
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
There is no verse after the cross where its said the Father is doing the drawing anymore There is no verse saying the Holy spirit is drawing. Calvinism is bizarre . It pretty much thinks John 6 is the Gospel. There is no mention of the Father drawing after the cross, only Jesus. Jesus says He draws ALL men. But no Calvinsm works backwards , landing on a verse that is before the greatest event in the bible and thinks that s the plan of salvation, because its a proof text they think supports their doctrines.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#755
Nov 21, 2020
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#755
throughfaith said:
Ok then point me to the verse were we see a person being regenerated. Could you point to the exact moment from scripture . Is

John 6 comes way before the cross . After the cross Jesus draws ALL men .
John 12 .32 .
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
There is no verse after the cross where its said the Father is doing the drawing anymore There is no verse saying the Holy spirit is drawing. Calvinism is bizarre . It pretty much thinks John 6 is the Gospel. There is no mention of the Father drawing after the cross, only Jesus. Jesus says He draws ALL men. But no Calvinsm works backwards , landing on a verse that is before the greatest event in the bible and thinks that s the plan of salvation, because its a proof text they think supports their doctrines.
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Doesn't make no difference.
 
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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#756
brightfame52 said:
Doesn't make no difference.
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Animal sacrifices why are you not still doing them ?. I can go back before the cross and show you many verses where things were commanded, where things were the 'norm ',the requirements, the practices , the way in which God dealt with people at different times . That do not apply today . Calvinists will take any verse so long as it fits the paradigm. It doesn't matter when it is .
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#757
Nov 21, 2020
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#757
throughfaith said:
Animal sacrifices why are you not still doing them ?. I can go back before the cross and show you many verses where things were commanded, where things were the 'norm ',the requirements, the practices , the way in which God dealt with people at different times . That do not apply today . Calvinists will take any verse so long as it fits the paradigm. It doesn't matter when it is .
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Man by nature cannot believe on Christ Jn 6:44,65
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#758
Aug 4, 2020
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#758
brightfame52 said:
Man by nature cannot believe on Christ Jn 6:44,65
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John 12 ..The keep reading principal. Calvinism will never teach you to do that.
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33This he said, signifying what death he should die.
 
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