How to be Born Again

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brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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That's my point. That kind of thinking means the non-elect are NOT sinners.

So your theology is essentially universalism; that Jesus Christ died for the "naturally unrighteous sinners" so they could go to heaven.

That would mean the rest of mankind didn't need Jesus to die for them, as they are NOT "naturally unrighteous sinners", and they get to go to heaven anyway.

But I suppose you won't even get what I'm saying.
It was a simple point. The Elect are sinners, anyone should know that.
 

throughfaith

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It was a simple point. The Elect are sinners, anyone should know that.
" The Elect are sinners," Verse ? Which verse SAYS this ? We have verses that say exact things about sinners and ' elect ' ,but I can't keep up with the amount of things you say that the bible doesn't say ?
 

brightfame52

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How true. And God HAS shown me the Truth. He made His Word available to me, and gave me His Holy Spirit in order to understand His Holy Word.

But I wonder what happened to you. We both have His Word, yet you have demonstrated over and over just how little you understand of His Word. Why is that?

You believe things that you can't even defend. You have no verses that say what you claim. Unlike myself.


Well, that's exactly what you've been doing. Unlike myself.
Its a hopeless situation if God doesnt give you light.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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" The Elect are sinners," Verse ? Which verse SAYS this ? We have verses that say exact things about sinners and ' elect ' ,but I can't keep up with the amount of things you say that the bible doesn't say ?
You dont believe elect are sinners ? Thats crazy. Im not going to argue that, if you dont believe that, thats too bad
 

throughfaith

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You dont believe elect are sinners ? Thats crazy. Im not going to argue that, if you dont believe that, thats too bad
Every human is a sinner. ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation ' .
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Every human is a sinner. ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation ' .
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
Lol, you really deceived. So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
 

throughfaith

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Lol, you really deceived. So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
Not once does it say ' Chosen to be saved / regenerated/ converted / irresistibly graced / ect , Before we existed..And no , 2 thes 2.13 doesn't say that .
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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It was a simple point. The Elect are sinners, anyone should know that.
You're really not understanding any of this, are you.

1 Pet 3:18 says Christ died for the unrighteous.

Calvinism says that Christ died for the elect.

So IF "the unrighteous" refers ONLY to "the elect", then that would mean the rest of humanity is NOT "the unrighteous", and therefore wouldn't need Christ to have to die for them.

Again, your theory leads directly to universalism, even if you can't understand this.

1 Peter 3:18 is very clear about WHO Christ did die for; that being "the unrighteous". If that includes ONLY "the elect", what about everyone else? Are they also "unrighteous" or what?
 

FreeGrace2

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Its a hopeless situation if God doesnt give you light.
I thank God that He HAS given me light. I have His Holy Word and His Holy Spirit to guide my understanding of His Word

So, what's the excuse for your lack of understanding His Word?
 

FreeGrace2

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You dont believe elect are sinners ? Thats crazy. Im not going to argue that, if you dont believe that, thats too bad
That's not the issue. 1 Peter 3:18 says Christ died for "the unrighteous". If Christ died ONLY for "the righteous", then what do you call the rest of humanity?

The only logical answer would be that the rest of humanity ISN'T "the unrighteous", but rather, "the righteous" and NOT in need of Christ dying for them, since they are not unrighteous.

You really need to figure out your positions before you try to defend them.
 

FreeGrace2

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What scripture says that ?
I am sure glad you asked this.

Acts 9:10-16

10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”“Yes, Lord,” he answered. 11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.” 13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”

This is Paul's own
experience on the road to Damascus:

Acts 20:24 - However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me - the task of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.

Acts 22:10 - "'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. "'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’

Acts 22:14, 15 - 14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard.

Acts 26:16 - ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.

Rom 1:9 - God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of His Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last nay God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

Rom 15:17 - Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God.

1 Cor 3:5 - What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task.

1 Cor 4:1 - This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.

Col 1:25 - I have become its (the Church) servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness—

1 Tim 1:12 - I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service.

1 Tim 2:7 - And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

2 Tim 1:11 - And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher.

1 Cor 1-
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth.
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised thingsand the things that are notto nullify the things that are,
29 so that no one may boast before him.

1 Peter 1-
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

I've color coded these verses to help you understand them.

The red words refer to God's election. The blue words refer to the PURPOSE in God's election, which is, obviously, service.

In every case.

Now, your challenge is to find at least 1 verse that indicates that salvation is by election.

I'll not hold my breath.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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Not once does it say ' Chosen to be saved / regenerated/ converted / irresistibly graced / ect , Before we existed..And no , 2 thes 2.13 doesn't say that .
Correct.

Let's look at the verse:

But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

First, the Greek word for "chose" here is NOT the same Greek verb for elect, which is "eklegomai". The word here is "haireomai", totally different and never translated as "elect".

Second, the verse isn't about God choosing who to save here. We find that fact in 1 Cor 1:21 in the phrase "God was pleased to saved those who believe". The blue words are what God chose as the mechanism for salvation.

Third, the Greek word "kai" between "work of the Spirit" and "through belief in the truth" is fairly fluid and can be translated in a number of ways, one of which is "even". Since the work of the Spirit is directly involved in believing, through conviction of sin, the verse is equating the work of the Spirit WITH believing.

So, God chose believing as the means or mechanism of saving people.

Which is why Paul's answer to the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved was: believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.

Very simple and straight forward.

If Paul was a calvinist (he wasn't) his answer would have been along the lines of:

There's nothing you can do. God already chose who would be saved before the foundation of the world. All you can do is wish.

If the jailer had no ability to believe the gospel message, Paul would have been amiss in his answer.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Lol, you really deceived. So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
Rom 5
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Notice which way round it SAYS . It SAYS no where that its by Irresistible grace we have access to Faith . No the grace is accessed by Faith . Clear verse .
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,495
113
63
Not once does it say ' Chosen to be saved / regenerated/ converted / irresistibly graced / ect , Before we existed..And no , 2 thes 2.13 doesn't say that .
So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "