How to be Born Again

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,465
590
113
You're really not understanding any of this, are you.

1 Pet 3:18 says Christ died for the unrighteous.

Calvinism says that Christ died for the elect.

So IF "the unrighteous" refers ONLY to "the elect", then that would mean the rest of humanity is NOT "the unrighteous", and therefore wouldn't need Christ to have to die for them.

Again, your theory leads directly to universalism, even if you can't understand this.

1 Peter 3:18 is very clear about WHO Christ did die for; that being "the unrighteous". If that includes ONLY "the elect", what about everyone else? Are they also "unrighteous" or what?
You making all that noise about 1 Pet 3:18, Christ died for sinners, duh ! He didnt die for all sinners, just the Elect, thats who Peter was writing to 1 Pet 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,465
590
113
I thank God that He HAS given me light. I have His Holy Word and His Holy Spirit to guide my understanding of His Word

So, what's the excuse for your lack of understanding His Word?
Like I said, its hopeless if God doesnt give you light, youll be like these:

2 Tim 3:7

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,465
590
113
I am sure glad you asked this.

Acts 9:10-16

10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”“Yes, Lord,” he answered. 11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.” 13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”

This is Paul's own
experience on the road to Damascus:

Acts 20:24 - However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me - the task of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.

Acts 22:10 - "'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. "'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’

Acts 22:14, 15 - 14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard.

Acts 26:16 - ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.

Rom 1:9 - God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of His Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last nay God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

Rom 15:17 - Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God.

1 Cor 3:5 - What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task.

1 Cor 4:1 - This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.

Col 1:25 - I have become its (the Church) servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness—

1 Tim 1:12 - I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service.

1 Tim 2:7 - And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

2 Tim 1:11 - And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher.

1 Cor 1-
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth.
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised thingsand the things that are notto nullify the things that are,
29 so that no one may boast before him.

1 Peter 1-
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

I've color coded these verses to help you understand them.

The red words refer to God's election. The blue words refer to the PURPOSE in God's election, which is, obviously, service.

In every case.

Now, your challenge is to find at least 1 verse that indicates that salvation is by election.

I'll not hold my breath.
Again, quit spamming up Gods word and show me the scripture that says:

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,465
590
113
Rom 5
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Notice which way round it SAYS . It SAYS no where that its by Irresistible grace we have access to Faith . No the grace is accessed by Faith . Clear verse .
So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
I'm saying that everytime the word ' elect shows up
So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
I'm saying that, due to the fact that no verse says so . All you would need is a verse that says " Chosen before the foundation of the world to be saved/ converted/ regenerated/ born again ect . You think there would be one wouldn't you ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
There's a reason there is no verse that says ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation, and its because the bible is clear on how we are saved . Its Calvinism that has the burden, because it positively claims ' regeneration precedes faith ' . It says Grace is the access to the Faith ( irresistible) But we already have a verse that SAYS
2By whom also we have ACCESS BY FAITH INTO THIS GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Clear verse .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
Its the equivalent of me saying the ' elect ' has nothing to do with cheese. There's a reason no verse exits worded like that . Every time the word shows up it is to service, purpose ect and not ' to salvation ' . You claim the bible says this . Where ?Its why Calvinism has to say " this is what the bible ' teaches " . Thats how it gets pushed on people.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,465
590
113
I'm saying that everytime the word ' elect shows up
I'm saying that, due to the fact that no verse says so . All you would need is a verse that says " Chosen before the foundation of the world to be saved/ converted/ regenerated/ born again ect . You think there would be one wouldn't you ?
So you dont have a verse that says that correct ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,465
590
113
There's a reason there is no verse that says ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation, and its because the bible is clear on how we are saved . Its Calvinism that has the burden, because it positively claims ' regeneration precedes faith ' . It says Grace is the access to the Faith ( irresistible) But we already have a verse that SAYS
2By whom also we have ACCESS BY FAITH INTO THIS GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Clear verse .
So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,465
590
113
Its the equivalent of me saying the ' elect ' has nothing to do with cheese. There's a reason no verse exits worded like that . Every time the word shows up it is to service, purpose ect and not ' to salvation ' . You claim the bible says this . Where ?Its why Calvinism has to say " this is what the bible ' teaches " . Thats how it gets pushed on people.
So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
So what verse says as you say " ' Elect ' has nothing to do with ' to salvation "
Why would it have a verse like that ? Every time the word shows up it NEVER says ' to salvation . The burden is on you my friend. Heres my claim again .Every single time the word ' elect ' shows up its never ' to salvation ' ..Am I wrong ? is there a verse that says that ' elect ' to salvation ' " elected to be saved ' ?
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
You making all that noise about 1 Pet 3:18
Let me assure you that the Word of God isn't "noise". How rude of you to make such a claim.

Christ died for sinners, duh !
Your "duh" belongs to you alone.

He didnt die for all sinners
Peter was clear about exactly who Jesus DID die for. "the unrighteous".

just the Elect
Peter never wrote that Jesus died for "just the elect". That's just your own opinion and you have NO verses that say what you claim.

Peter was clear aout who Jesus died for; 'the unrighteous'. If you think Jesus only died for "the elect", then ONLY "the elect" are unrighteous. Duh.

thats who Peter was writing to 1 Pet 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.[/QUOTE]
Since all believers are elect, what's your point? Of course he was writing to believers. But 3:18 doesn't say Jesus died for believers.

It says clearly that He died for the unrighteous.

So who are the non-elect? Opposite of "the unrighteous". That would mean "the righteous".

But you don't want to get it, it appears.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Like I said, its hopeless if God doesnt give you light
Didn't you read what I posted?

"I thank God that He HAS given me light. I have His Holy Word and His Holy Spirit to guide my understanding of His Word

So, what's the excuse for your lack of understanding His Word?"

So, again, what is the excuse for your lack of understanding the Bible?

youll be like these:
2 Tim 3:7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
No, I'll never be like these. But it seems from your posts that you ARE like these people.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Again, quit spamming up Gods word and show me the scripture that says:

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation.
I did and you rejected the Truth of God's Word.

In a previous post, you quoted 1 Peter 1:1,2 which is one of the verses I quoted for you.

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The red words refer to believers, the elect.

The blue words refer to the purpose of God's election: for obedience.

How about 1 Cor 1-
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth.
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are notto nullify the things that are,
29 so that no one may boast before him.

The red words refer to who God chose or elected.

The blue words are the service for which they were chosen or elected.

It couldn't be any more clear.

So, you asked for a verse that says the elect are chosen for service, and I complied.

Now, I am asking you for a verse that says that God elected people for salvation. Go ahead.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,465
590
113
Why would it have a verse like that ? Every time the word shows up it NEVER says ' to salvation . The burden is on you my friend. Heres my claim again .Every single time the word ' elect ' shows up its never ' to salvation ' ..Am I wrong ? is there a verse that says that ' elect ' to salvation ' " elected to be saved ' ?
You made up the comment !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,465
590
113
Let me assure you that the Word of God isn't "noise". How rude of you to make such a claim.


Your "duh" belongs to you alone.


Peter was clear about exactly who Jesus DID die for. "the unrighteous".


Peter never wrote that Jesus died for "just the elect". That's just your own opinion and you have NO verses that say what you claim.

Peter was clear aout who Jesus died for; 'the unrighteous'. If you think Jesus only died for "the elect", then ONLY "the elect" are unrighteous. Duh.




Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Since all believers are elect, what's your point? Of course he was writing to believers. But 3:18 doesn't say Jesus died for believers.

It says clearly that He died for the unrighteous.

So who are the non-elect? Opposite of "the unrighteous". That would mean "the righteous".

But you don't want to get it, it appears.[/QUOTE]
Its easy, Christ died for some sinners, some unrighteous, some ungodly, namely His Elect. The Elect are sinners by nature, maybe you didnt realize that, but its true. The Elect sinned in Adam and incurred condemnation Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The Elect by Adam were made sinners Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The Elect are by nature children of wrath as others [the non elect] Eph 2:3

3 Among whom also we[Paul and other Elect] all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
throughfaith said:
There could never be one, as the bible makes it clear what ' election ' means .
Theres no verse that says that.
Why do you keep saying that since I've given you many verses that plainly and clearly indicate the purpose of election is for service.

And you never even tried to explain how the verses meant something else.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Since all believers are elect, what's your point?
My point was very clear. God chooses or elects believers to be holy and blameless. That's an election for service.

Of course he was writing to believers.
Right. And Paul was teaching believers that God chose them for service, not salvation.

But 3:18 doesn't say Jesus died for believers.
Of course not. But you said Christ died for the elect. Show me any verse that says God chooses unbelievers for service.

It says clearly that He died for the unrighteous.
Where does that leave all the non-elect?

Its easy, Christ died for some sinners, some unrighteous, some ungodly, namely His Elect.
OK, now we're getting to the heart of your huge error. Please quote at least ONE verse that says He died only for "some". What you are doing is committing eisegesis; you're putting YOUR OWN OPINION into the verse.

Peter never specified "some" of the unrighteous". He simply said "the unrighteous". That obviously means all of them.

But calvinism inserts their own opinions so as to preserve their claims.

If Peter had included the adjective "some", you'd hae a point. As it is, uou don't have one.

The Elect are sinners by nature, maybe you didnt realize that, but its true. The Elect sinned in Adam and incurred condemnation Rom 5:18
How silly. Everyone in humanity is a sinner by nature. Rom 3:9,10, 23. And Christ died for all of them.