How To Be Un-Saved

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Mar 28, 2016
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I would like to add one. That God would have to admit he made a mistake. Because he would have to admit he did not know the person would later change his or her mind.

God who calls people to repent does the changing of mind.He does the first work of turning them toward Him, as to how many the father gave to the Son so that then being turned then comfort themeselces (repent).


05162 nacham {naw-kham'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 1344; v
AV - comfort 57, repent 41, comforter 9, ease 1; 108
1) to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion 1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent 1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself 1b) (Piel) to comfort, console 1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to be sorry, have compassion 1d2) to rue, repent of 1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1d4) to ease oneself
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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B...,
You are mixing to elements;

Salvation is a free gift from G-d. It cannot be bought with money or deeds.

Yes...you can loose it. You must retain it...by a righteous life.
Then...it...is....not....actually.....a.....gift.

That's like telling someone, "Hey, I'm gonna give you a car for free! But after you receive it, you have to paint my house once a year, or I'll take the car back!"
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I would like to add one. That God would have to admit he made a mistake. Because he would have to admit he did not know the person would later change his or her mind.
I would offer. The promise, our confidence, is if he has begun the good work of His salvation in us he will keep on working with us to the end.

He is author of finishing is better than starting.... just as patience is better than pride

Every time a believer does foolish things by denying God in their new hearts they have sinned.

Remember the power we do have our earthen bodies as new creatures is not of us, its Christ in us, the anointing Holy Spirit of God The incorruptible seed.(never ending)

I would offer God who without fail always does whatsoever his soul pleases as the "first works". like;"let there be" and by a work of his faith there was that which the eyes behold. God called it good.

Our God who calls people to repent does the changing of mind. He does the first work of turning them toward Him drawing them so that they then comfort themselves (repent).

He offers us a good definition ( Jer 31:18)of what it meaning to repent.I belive showing he must do the first work or no man could turn from trusting thier own old hearts. To repent is a work of God our first love.

I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.Surely after that I was turned,"I repented"; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.Jer 31:18

The word repent took a different meaning then many I have shared with. It helped myself understand what I belive it means when God repents he does not only change His mind but is comforted by the fact he will kep on comforting those he draws to His own self.


Strongs lexicon..05162 nacham {naw-kham'}a primitive root; TWOT - 1344; v
AV - comfort 57, repent 41, comforter 9, ease 1; 108
1) to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion 1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent 1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself 1b) (Piel) to comfort, console 1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to be sorry, have compassion 1d2) to rue, repent of 1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1d4) to ease oneself


If he does not do the first works as our first experience as a labor of His love working in us turning us. Then no man could come.

It would seem the Holy Spirit gives us a beautiful example of what it means to “repent by turning to comfort one self”.

It would be the same God who first called us by the hearing of his faith and not the god of this world who would have us crucify Christ again, again, and again every time they do harden their hearts by sinning against God and not in respect to the first call of faith (our first love)

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.(hearing the word of God) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;(believe God not man) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Rev 2:1


The Nicolaitanes had given up that which turned them the first time in order to belive God with a new faith and they began by putting their faith in the things of men seen the temporal. after the founder of that sect,Nicole. And not the true founder of our new faith ,Christ
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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B...,
You are mixing to elements;

Salvation is a free gift from G-d. It cannot be bought with money or deeds.

Yes...you can loose it. You must retain it...by a righteous life.
Salvation is a free gift from God. It cannot be bought with money or deeds.
Yes, you can lose it -- if you cease believing in Jesus Christ.
I'm with Chester on this one
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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I'm with Chester on this one
And just to cut to the chase with the inevitable responses....

There are many, many verses in the Bible which all say this can and will happen. But it's not at all unusual for people here to dismiss and ignore scriptures they don't agree with. That's why we have the MRV. But I would paraphrase another scripture to bring it into focus:

Scripture is of no individual agreement.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Are you speaking of me or of some other?
Is yours an intellectual knowledge or knowledge according to the scriptures?

Were you converted by reason or by the Holy Spirit?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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Is yours an intellectual knowledge or knowledge according to the scriptures?

Were you converted by reason or by the Holy Spirit?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Does it have to be one or the other? Could not BOTH be in play at the same time?

The either/or you present is a direct result of extreme polarization. Two parts that used to make a whole are now played against each other on an alarmingly frequent basis.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Then...it...is....not....actually.....a.....gift.

That's like telling someone, "Hey, I'm gonna give you a car for free! But after you receive it, you have to paint my house once a year, or I'll take the car back!"

[FONT=&quot]Gal 3: 3 Are you so [/FONT]foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

god calls thm fools, yet that can’t see it, does this show how foolish they are?


 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Salvation is a free gift from God. It cannot be bought with money or deeds.
Yes, you can lose it -- if you cease believing in Jesus Christ.
So you pay for it with your ability to continue to believe. Not much of a gift now is it
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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So you pay for it with your ability to continue to believe. Not much of a gift now is it
But the Bible (and therefore God) says that belief IS NOT AN ACT OF WORKS.

Romans 4:1-24, Eph 2:8-9, Acts 16:31, Romans 5:1, John 5:24, Romans 11:6
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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Tangentary tale for illustration:

My little brother receives Christmas gifts from our parents. But he never accepts them, and leaves them to collect dust on the living room floor. If they take the gifts and put them in his room, he takes them and puts them back in the living room for the peeps to return to the store.

The term "GIFT" does NOT imply a mandatory obligation to receive or keep them.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Then...it...is....not....actually.....a.....gift.

That's like telling someone, "Hey, I'm gonna give you a car for free! But after you receive it, you have to paint my house once a year, or I'll take the car back!"
You are right - Budman - at least by what preston39 wrote: I think salvation can be lost: but we do not retain it "by a righteous life"
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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You are right - Budman - at least by what preston39 wrote: I think salvation can be lost: but we do not retain it "by a righteous life"
I wish we would stop using the term 'lost'. 'Forfeited' or 'refused' is a more accurate illustration of the process.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Tangentary tale for illustration:

My little brother receives Christmas gifts from our parents. But he never accepts them, and leaves them to collect dust on the living room floor. If they take the gifts and put them in his room, he takes them and puts them back in the living room for the peeps to return to the store.

The term "GIFT" does NOT imply a mandatory obligation to receive or keep them.
your brother never rcieved them, so he did not lose them, he never had them.

god offers his fift to all people. sadly they do just like your brother, and reject the gifts.

God did not take it back.

The gift of God is eternal life. Given to all wh believe. He what does bt believe is condemned already the gift is there they reject it.

Trying to use this example to prove salvation can be lost did not work if that was your goal
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Is yours an intellectual knowledge or knowledge according to the scriptures?

Were you converted by reason or by the Holy Spirit?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Mine is a knowledge according to the Scriptures and I have been converted by the Holy Spirit.

(And - I believe that we are saved by grace through faith and that we stay saved by grace through faith!) :)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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your brother never rcieved them, so he did not lose them, he never had them.

god offers his fift to all people. sadly they do just like your brother, and reject the gifts.

God did not take it back.

The gift of God is eternal life. Given to all wh believe. He what does bt believe is condemned already the gift is there they reject it.

Trying to use this example to prove salvation can be lost did not work if that was your goal
It did not work FOR YOU.

And I never said God takes it back. He most assuredly DOES NOT TAKE IT BACK. Ever!

But that's ok I never expected it to work for you.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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So you pay for it with your ability to continue to believe. Not much of a gift now is it
So when you were initially saved, you paid for it with your ability to believe?? !! It wasn't much of a gift then was it??!! LOL!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I wish we would stop using the term 'lost'. 'Forfeited' or 'refused' is a more accurate illustration of the process.

better yet just use the word of God

He who does not believe is condemned already. It does not say they lost. forfiet or refused anything. Actually the term reject would fit Also. God offered them 5e gift, and they rejected it. They may have claimed belief for awhile. But as a dogthey returned to their vomit, because they were always dogs. They were never made into a new creation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
So when you were initially saved, you paid for it with your ability to believe?? !! It wasn't much of a gift then was it??!! LOL!
Nope. Because I just recieved it the burden of continuing to belief was not placed on me so had to earn it in the end, or lose it if i failed

nice try.but no cigar my friend.