How to love your family, when God hates the nonelects?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,150
437
83
Shepherd said:
God tells us that for us to "Be like our Father" we must "love our enemies". Once again: If God hates the lost then He would be no better than He commands us to be. He would be a contradiction. Better give your heart to the God of the Bible. The Bible says "God is Love". Therefore, He loves the lost; ALL of the lost.




Matthew 5:44-48
No, He doesn't. He may love everyone in an earthly sense in providing for their physical needs, but not in the spiritual sense - and that is not a contradiction: one earthly; one spiritual.
If God loves all of the lost spiritually, then all of the lost must become saved. The meaning of those verses is that the true believers are to share the gospel with everyone that they can - sharing the gospel is truly loving someone because it is eternal, just as God wrote the Bible with the gospel that everyone may read it - as rain falls upon the justified and the unjustified alike. That does not mean all will become saved nor that God desires all to become saved. We, as people, do not know who those will be just as at the time no one would have expected Saul/Paul to become saved.... but... God knew because God had planned to save him from before the foundation of the world and therefore, he was justified by Christ. So, in not knowing, we are to share the gospel with everyone without prejudice.
And you ignore the verse that says God hated Esau and are treating it as though it isn't there: that God hated, means that God hated. Again, God spiritually hates those not justified by Christ because they are guilty of sin. It is Christ who turned God's hatred into love for those specific individuals whom He had chosen: the elect. Had Christ not done so, then the Father's hatred and wrath would have been upon the entirely of mankind with none of us loved by Him nor saved.
And you should read your Bible more closely and try harder to realize what it is actually saying. Try to read closely and think about the following verses, ignoring none of them.

[Rom 9:11 KJV]
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

[Rom 11:5 KJV] 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,150
437
83
That's false. Belief is belief, faith is faith. Everyone has faith; it's part of our make-up.
One guy put his faith in a chair that ended up collapsing under his weight. Another guy put his faith in Jesus as his Savior for eternity. They were the exact same faith. Only the objects of their faith were different; one object was faith-worthy and the other wasn't.
Faith to faith means from (Christ's) faith imputed to His elect, which translates into, and becomes their faith in Him, which faith, being that Christ is fully and completely Saviour in all ways possible, to include their belief.

No one, whether it be by human intellect or nature, has true faith in Christ unless it is given to them by God. No matter how you perceive faith - what you believe that it is, or it isn't - unless it had come from God to them, then it is not true faith in Christ, neither can it be.

I know you don't like to read verses that I include (probably because they contradict what you've been taught) but try to read and think about these anyway because they are pertinent. I've highlighted the important parts to make their points obvious and simple.

BTW: "natural man" is unsaved man. Everyone born is as a natural man.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 
Apr 27, 2023
539
39
28
Faith in Christ comes by hearing the word of God, and it's available to everyone.


No you don't.
The word of God is literally the Hebrew YHWH. When the word of God comes to a person the God cites his name.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
453
62
28
God saved you. How do you know He will not yet be merciful to your family as well?
How does he know they are not of the chosen few? The same way he "knows" that he is of the chosen few.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,523
5,268
113
62
How does he know they are not of the chosen few? The same way he "knows" that he is of the chosen few.
Why are you deliberately contrarian and intellectually dishonest?
I made a comment designed to encourage a poster of the hope of salvation. Why would you diminish that?
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,150
437
83
Faith in Christ comes by hearing the word of God, and it's available to everyone.


No you don't.
No, hearing is NOT available to everyone. Hearing comes only from being born again - it is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. Read the following verses it is made clear there. After this post, this dialogue is finished.

[Jhn 6:44-45 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

[Jhn 8:42-43 & 47 KJV]
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

[Jhn 10:4-5 KJV]
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
534
259
63
No, hearing is NOT available to everyone. Hearing comes only from being born again - it is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. Read the following verses it is made clear there. After this post, this dialogue is finished.

[Jhn 6:44-45 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

[Jhn 8:42-43 & 47 KJV]
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

[Jhn 10:4-5 KJV]
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
Wrong. Faith in Christ comes by hearing the word of God, and it's available to everyone.