How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
how can you follow jesus, (fully) that would be to follow the law fully, and with the requirement of law you need a temple of stone. history said you cant. not me.

paul said again

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.(not heirs from following law. )
if you wont to follow law, is the way jesus walked to save them under law(the jewish)

the apostles at the time of jesus being on the planet, never knew that a gentile could be saved till after jesus was back in heaven. again history proves again the twist of words some are trying to use. etc
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
Hi grace777x70,

I love that picture of Martyn LLoyd-Jones. If you can get his books on Romans , Ive read the 14 volume set(can usually pick them up cheap on ebay). As I say it all by grace ..monergistic..then synergistic. (Lloyd-jones would agree with that).

Paul took a lot of stick from nearly everyone and had to defend 'his gospel' as we see from his statements of authority i agree with that.. I don't know if you have read any books on Pauls theology.. if i can suggest one it would be 'Paul an outline of his theology -Herman Ridderbos.' you'll then see the mainstream evangelical view if not a reformed view on a few points (recomended by Lloyd-jones).

Anyhow, I think we've had a good debate lol
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Great quote....as far as the sin that dwelleth in me in the quote..these scriptures come to mind from Paul.

Romans 7:16-23 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I ( inner man created in Christ ) the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. ( in his flesh - the power of sin )
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the good that I want ( the inner man created in Christ ), I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I ( the inner man ) do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. ( in his flesh - the power of sin )
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me, ( in his flesh ..the power of sin) the one who wants to do good. ( the inner man )
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, ( new man created in righteousness and holiness in Christ )
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.In Romans 8 Paul goes on to talk about how to overcome this mess and it's no condemnation in Christ and to walk according to the spirit.

We can still choose to walk according to the flesh. This is a choice we make from an umrenewed mind or from bad teaching or from straight out rebellion in our minds...selfishness..self-centeredness..etc. This occurs in the area of the soul where we make decisions from.

This walking according to the flesh or walking according to the spirit affects our life here on this earth.

Romans 8:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but " If " by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.



Sorry, I'm having a migraine and can barely see the screen. But wanted to post this. Later all.

"When Christ is within, His strength is ours. Weak in ourselves we are "strong in the Lord and in the power of His might." We are "strong in the grace that is Christ Jesus." Concerning every victory won or work accomplished we thankfully acknowledge, "It is not I, but Christ who dwelleth in me." Concerning every failure and defeat we sorrowfully acknowledge, "It is not Christ, but sin that dwelleth in me." The discouragement arising from futile attempts to live the Christian life is traceable in every case to a lack of dependence upon the power of the Indwelling Christ.” - JAMES M. CAMPBELL
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
There is a spiritual problem in the language people use.

In a true communion sense only the Holy Spirit can in dwell us. Jesus is a single being, a human in a resurrected body. He is not therefore omni-present. Equally we do not talk about being indwelt by the Father. All the language used is about communion, opinions, essence, agreement.

So Christ doing things in peoples lives is about obedience, identification with the Lord, and sacrifice of any personal direction or ambition. It is a wonder people go so extreme. As a teenager I worked in ministry, witnessing, preaching, sharing. I identified with this language but never was it Jesus in me doing anything, it was me identifying with the Lord and sharing His love with all I met.

Now nutcases may super spiritualise the words they make it meaningless and a denial of the Kingdom, Jesus purchasing sinners to freely walk in love and freedom who will show their love of one another as a witness of the Kingdom on earth.

Anything related to possession of people or lack of will and choice is just pure denial of the basis of the Kingdom, free choice based on love.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:20

This verse means Paul is saying anything that is part of his ambitions or expectations are now dead. His whole motivation and dedication is to Jesus and following His lead.

Only a nutcase would say this actually means Jesus possesses someone like a demon, and it is Jesus in control.
If you think this is how Jesus works through His people you belong to the wrong Kingdom, because the Lord is about communion choosing fellowship, servant hood and connection.

Jesus saw what the Father was doing and did it. He obeyed the Fathers command and the Lord confirmed His approval of His son. We are called to walk with Him, filled with love truth and power as independent loving beings who chose to worship the Father and His Son, having fellowship with His Spirit within.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Sounds great...thanks for the recommendations.. Amen!..it is all b y grace..from start to finish...

To me there are 2 aspects to grace..we need to be grounded in the first aspect before the second one can take shape..if done by the Spirit within us.

We can save that one for another time...:)

I enjoyed our time..God bless you!

Hi grace777x70,

I love that picture of Martyn LLoyd-Jones. If you can get his books on Romans , Ive read the 14 volume set(can usually pick them up cheap on ebay). As I say it all by grace ..monergistic..then synergistic. (Lloyd-jones would agree with that).

Paul took a lot of stick from nearly everyone and had to defend 'his gospel' as we see from his statements of authority i agree with that.. I don't know if you have read any books on Pauls theology.. if i can suggest one it would be 'Paul an outline of his theology -Herman Ridderbos.' you'll then see the mainstream evangelical view if not a reformed view on a few points (recomended by Lloyd-jones).

Anyhow, I think we've had a good debate lol
 
Last edited:
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
How many people believe Jesus possess people, and take them over.

For them Jesus is not a friend who has led them to a point of entering into a greater reality but an odd exclusion and escapism into some religious eccentricity, where the mysterious language is used as if it has any real meaning.

Now I would have respected this once, but now I call what it actually is, just nuts, mysticism as if it is wisdom.
What you have to ask people who talk like this, how many friends to they have and how much time do they spend talking to anyone. Often you will find this are clearly not all there and everyone knows they live in their own world.

Now here on the internet they might sound a little deep, until they start to say stuff at length which once you start questioning falls apart, unless ofcourse if all they do is cut and past and avoid any reality.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Pauls confusing language of the word Spirit.
Spirit of Christ, Spirit of the Father, the Holy Spirit.
On top of this Christ lives in you.

Paul is using language in symbolic terms or else he is talking about 3 spirits and Christ, which is more than the trinity.
Paul goes on to talk about clothing yourself in Christ.

Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God.
Rom 15:17

So through it all, through metaphor, through analogy Paul is still an individual walking in communion with the Lord.

It is a wonder to me that anyone who have been stupid enough to take this analogy, this complex view of language and make a theology around it. But then there are no limits to peoples own wishful thinking.
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
Obedience to the faith is simply to believe in Jesus..the Son of God and His finished work for us on the cross and resurrection

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

We become obedient to the faith by believing on Jesus Christ![/QUOTE]

It is easier said then done bro. I have faith in Christ but as long as I am in this fleshly form, I'm still vulnerable to sin as all Christians. Romans 6:14-15 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. but I thank God, by HIS grace I can turn to the cross and ask for forgiveness and HE will forgive. I know by HIS grace HE is molding me and breaking me through trails and temptations to bear fruit of the Holy Ghost Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. to be a Christian/spiritual perfection.
I prayed for more grace in my life then my own son wanted to bash me for telling him the truth. Grace is a huge subject even now I believe we cannot fathom Gods Grace but I thank God I am saved by HIS grace.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
Let me understand you valiant.

Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognised by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.’
Matt 12:33-37

The subject here is the very foundation of what we stand before the King of Kings with and are judged by.
I come here in all honesty and testify to what I know. I speak as the Lord has spoken to me, I share what the Lord has done in my heart and through my life.

Those who oppose me or condemn me, condemn the work the Lord has done. I am standing for simple purity and righteous living. If you condemn this, you condemn Jesus.

It is hard to say I am not being as humble as any mortal can be, but please tell me of my fault and sin, or just listen to the word of the Lord. It does not come simpler than this or more fundamental.

But I rejoice in God my Saviour and in the grace he has poured on me through Jesus Christ my Lord.

You have decided which side of this argument you are on, for which you will answer before the Lord just as I will, and great glory be to His name and to His Son Jesus Christ my Saviour.
Your 'crime' is that you do not appreciate what your brother is saying but interpret him in accordance with you own interpretation of some fallacious hyper-grace doctrine which is held by very few, if any.

you have a right to disagree. you have no right to call him into question about a remark that covered only one
aspect of your discussion, and take it out of context.

I am not on any 'side'. but you dismiss your brothers out of hand. That is not 'sharing your understanding and position'. it is a display of total arrogance,
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Your 'crime' is that you do not appreciate what your brother is saying but interpret him in accordance with you own interpretation of some fallacious hyper-grace doctrine which is held by very few, if any.
This is the point you have missed. EG & grace7x77 both believe in the hyper-grace polarisation between carnal legalism and grace alone thought. They hold the cross alone is the focus rather than a reflection of a deeper reality in the nature of God and our condition. This has not been established here on this thread but over weeks of discussion on many threads.

They have consistently called me unsaved by implication, lost in legalism, trying to justify myself by good works or behaviour. None of this is in fact true.

EG believes because I do not follow OSAS I am lost and an enemy. Grace7x77 loves quoting Joseph Prince, now Creflo Dollar. They follow an idea of redemption that is we have a perfect pure spirit, from which we just have to walk in it to know spiritual reality. This excludes repentance, confession and asking for forgiveness for sin. They do not hold with following or listening to your conscience but rather being righteous conscious, whatever that means.

So yes I dismiss most of what they offer because it is actually irrelevant to their primary theology which is heretical.
This is the third round of change from WOF, prosperity gospel to now grace, teaching similar approaches to the world and success as always.

I have also found most of these "spiritual" teachers are blind to the simplest of emotional realities of life.

I am sorry if this comes across as arrogant, but it is they who have judged me unsaved, a hypocrite, a liar, an enemy of the gospel. Maybe you are unaware of what is being discussed here. It is the very heart of our walk with the Lord and what sanctification actually is. Maybe you have no stake in this discussion, but it is not neutral or a simple innocent debate around the fireside.

So I suggest you do some research before you start condemning me over something you are actually not aware of.
I was not aware of the depth of penetration of this theological thinking had taken over the last 5 years or so, until we started discussing it here a few weeks ago. The spirit behind it is not of the Lord, and it is leading many astray under the guise of conservative christian theology.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
There are a lot of mis-understandings about the hyper-grace message of the finished work of Christ for us....you can click on anything in blue to take you to the article that discusses what is being said.

The Hyper-Grace Quiz

In the past few months, there has been an aggressive backlash against the gospel of grace. This backlash has been seen in the Christian media, the blogosphere, and in the publication of books by respected Bible teachers. I have come across articles with titles like “Confronting the error of hyper-grace,” “The deception of hyper-grace,” and the oddly-titled, “What’s wrong with grace?”

The authors of these articles typically describe the gospel of grace as a “dangerous teaching,” a “false message,” and “a hyped-up, watered-down, seeker-friendly gospel.” Those who preach it are branded “false prophets,” “antichrists,” and “pied pipers” leading people to hell.

What do these critics have against the gospel of grace?

Their criticisms are numerous: Apparently the grace message is soft on sin. It’s opposed to the law. It’s a prosperity gospel. It’s unbalanced. It’s extreme. It’s a fad.

Some of these criticisms reflect abiding misperceptions (“grace promotes licentiousness”). Some of the criticisms are slanderous (“grace preachers are closet sinners”), while others are risible (“this message was responsible for the rise of Adolph Hitler and the runaway Democratic party”).

Presented with these sorts of claims, it is tempting to dismiss the opponents of the grace message as ill informed and reactionary. But not all of them are.

In January 2014, Dr. Michael L. Brown released a book entitled Hyper-Grace: Exposing the Dangers of the Modern Grace Message. In his book, Dr. Brown seeks to correct “some serious distortions and errors” that are being preached as part of what he calls “the modern grace message.” Dr. Brown portrays hyper-grace preachers as being opposed to repentance and the confession of sins, and he claims we think the words of Jesus have no relevance for us today.

Is this true? Do hyper-grace preachers actually think this way?

Since I am one of the hyper-grace preachers identified by Dr. Brown, I thought it might be helpful to respond to these accusations. To be fair, some of his accusations are spot on. On several occasions reading his book I said to myself, “Guilty as charged,” and I did so with a grace-addict’s grin. Still, a number of his accusations are based on misperceptions or they misrepresent what we are actually saying.

For instance, on page 37 of his book, Dr. Brown identifies four statements that he embraces and we, apparently, reject. They are (1) sanctification is progressive, (2) it’s healthy to confess our sins to God, (3) New Testament repentance includes turning away from sins, and (4) the words of Jesus are authoritative.

To three of these claims, most hyper-grace preachers would shout amen! Confession is healthy, repentance is often evidenced by a turning away from sins, and everything Jesus said is good and authoritative. The only claim we would reject out of hand is the first one, that sanctification is a process. (More on this here.)

As Dr. Brown’s book illustrates, much of the criticism made against the hyper-grace gospel and those who preach it is based on misperceptions and misunderstandings. To illustrate this, ask yourself whether the following claims are true or false.

The hyper-grace quiz

True or false…



  1. Hyper-grace preachers are against repentance.
  2. Hyper-grace preachers are against confession.
  3. The hyper-grace gospel is universalism in disguise.
  4. Hyper-grace preachers say it’s wrong to ask God for forgiveness.
  5. Hyper-grace preachers say God is not grieved by your sin.
  6. Hyper-grace preachers are against the law.
  7. Hyper-grace preachers ignore the Old Testament.
  8. Hyper-grace preachers disregard the words of Jesus.
  9. The hyper-grace gospel encourages sin.
  10. The hyper-grace gospel discourages obedience and holy living.
  11. Hyper-grace preachers don’t talk about hell and wrath.

12. The hyper-grace gospel makes people lazy.

To have real dialogue, you need to hear both sides of the story. If your only exposure to the hyper-grace gospel comes from attack articles and Facebook debates, you may think that every statement in the above quiz is true. In fact, every statement is false. Each is either a fiction or a distortion of what the hyper-grace gospel actually says.

We will look at some of these claims in coming posts. But for now, I want to hear from you. Which of the claims above have you heard? Which have you believed?

And what are some other misperceptions you have encountered when telling others about the good news of God’s extreme, over-the-top, and hyper grace?
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Here is a sure way to recognize the so called hyper-grace message of Christ.

How to Recognize the Hyper-Grace Gospel

The hyper-grace gospel declares that God’s love for you is unconditional and His grace is superabounding. It’s the how much mores that Jesus spoke of and the grace upon grace that John wrote of.

The hyper-grace gospel is easy to recognize for it is nothing more than boasting about Jesus—who He is and what He has done and what you can now do because of what He has done. If the message you’re hearing causes you to fix your eyes on Jesus, and moves you to shout for joy and give thanksgiving and praise for all He has done, chances are you’re hearing the hyper-grace gospel.

While a mixed-grace gospel is recognized by the presence of carrots and sticks, the hyper-grace gospel is marked by invitations. Here’s one:

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” (Matt. 11:28)

Here’s another:

“I want to come in and be with you.” (Rev. 3:20)

A mixed-grace gospel drives people with the law, but the hyper-grace gospel draws them with love. This is how Martin Luther distinguished the two messages:

A lawdriver insists with threats and penalties; a preacher of grace lures and incites with divine goodness and compassion shown to us; for He wants no unwilling works and reluctant services, He wants joyful and delightful services of God.

In a quest for holiness a mixed-grace preacher may preach a little law, a little self-help, or a little pop psychology, but it’s all just a flesh trip. In contrast, a hyper-grace preacher preaches Christ alone. Whatever your need, whether it’s salvation or sanctification, your supply is found in the One who promises to meet all your needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus (Php. 4:19).

It is essential that you learn how to distinguish the hyper-grace gospel from the many mixed-grace messages that may distract you from it. To help you do this, I have prepared a table showing 20 differences between the mixed- and hyper-grace gospels that you can print out and keep in your Bible.

The hyper-grace gospel is simple. You don’t need to read Hebrew or Greek to get it. Nor do you need to go to seminary or Bible school. To paraphrase Joseph Prince, the hyper-grace gospel is so simple it takes theologians to complicate it.

The hyper-grace gospel is the revelation of Jesus. It is the announcement that He is the beginning and the end, the first word and the last. It is the confident assurance that He who has begun a good work in you will carry it on unto completion. It is the happy revelation that in Christ, your searching is over and you have found your eternal resting place. In Him, you are already home.

Jesus is the hyper-grace gospel!
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Logical failures

When anyone takes a theological position which is a new version of an historically held structure it has to be worked through completely. Often mirages of ideas, take certain concepts and do not work them through to their conclusion but just enough to confuse or dilute the thread. But this is not a co-herent approach, as everything has to complete the model.

Hyper grace needs the first concept. A pure spirit born into the believer which is the source of there new reality.
Now this is another version of we are gods, eternal beings who lost our rights through Adams sin but now have our position restored through Jesus.

Now Jesus talks about the seed being His word. This is odd to my thinking. How can a word be a thing that has life?
The seed and the sower, is Gods word being spread, Gods promises being given. I used to picture this as love being spread, the connection and identification from God to man, you matter. But how is this love expressed, through words, and through the Word, Jesus Gods only son.

This seed, or word, works out through the believer, to become a vast tree in their life. Every concept, every aspect of life is looked at, changed and adjusted through obedience, through repentance, through walking with Jesus. The final work is to be like Jesus, one with the Son and one with the Father.

From the time of Jesus to now this is christians experience. Pilgrims progress is an example of working out the word planted in the heart.

The reason why people have responded in alarm to hyper-grace is the idea you no longer have to listen to the Holy Spirit in regards to sin, or to repent and work through the issues in your life, or to take seriously the walk of faith.

But the heresy starts at the beginning with the gnostic idea of a pure spirit planted in your soul.

The fruit of the prosperity gospel is the despair when death, illness, persecution and financial difficulties come upon a believer this is pictured as spiritual failure not to walk in success.

As a believer it is who we are in the Lord, in love, in righteousness, in empathy, in action that matters not in wealth or health or success or the world. The kingdom transcends life and overcomes circumstance and is not a victim of circumstance. The preachers of grace preach prosperity, preach command theology, and all the other worldliness they would want to drag us into which is not part of the Kingdom of God.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
The believers new heart in Christ created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you
became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power
through His Spirit in the inner man,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us
the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth
the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them
giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them,
cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction i
s love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who
call on the Lord from a pure heart. ( this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and if we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,281
6,655
113
The believers new heart in Christ created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you
became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power
through His Spirit in the inner man,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us
the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth
the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them
giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them,
cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction i
s love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who
call on the Lord from a pure heart. ( this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and if we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.
this is the point I was attempting to make yesterday, you just did a much better job than I did. of course, the legalists will try to tear this apart like they do everything else that does not make salvation about them. if only, only they could see what Paul meant in Titus 3 . if only.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Here is a quote from a commentator on hyper-grace

In over thirty years of Christian Ministry I have never had to deal with such disrespectful, contentious behavior in Believers as I have with many of the ardent subscribers to Hyper-Grace.

Theology or words create a framework of concepts and ideas. If the words dismiss everything and then reign them back in, maybe, the effect on most is just to let it rip. If the goal is constraint with liberty, you bring the constaint in and then introduce the liberty.

God first brought the law, Israel, and then freedom through Christ. Without the constraint liberty is chaos.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
It's too bad your commentator friend has no idea what is actually being said. Obviously some of the beliefs have 'clashed" with his religious upbringing and his traditions and his "sacred cows" got sacrificed in the process. It happens to all of us. ...:)
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
The gospel

Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out
Acts 3:19

He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Luke 3:3

The voice spoke to him a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.
Acts 10:15

You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
John 15:3

How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!
Heb 9:14

Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey – whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Roman 6:16

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Romans 6:18

If you love me, keep my commands.
John 14:15

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
2 John 1:6

The connection is simple Repent, believe on Jesus, obey His commands that leads to righteousness.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
We are impure vessels washed clean, who from the heart desire to follow Jesus.

How do you show you are truly pure and washed, walk to the end of your life in faithfulness.

We are sinners imputed righteous, washed clean by redemption, and continual transformed by sanctification.
Our goal is to become like Christ through obedience to His Spirit at work in our hearts.

Though we have liberty of expression we are constrained by love, as expressed through the commands of God.

Obedience leads to righteousness, not of ourselves but Christ who works within us.

Hyper-grace would attempt to take away repentance and being aware of success and failure, in the hope of freeing people from self condemnation, rather than teaching them to view themselves as God views them in their faith.