How to Spot a Legalist

BarlyGurl · Sep 17, 2015

THAT IS A VERY ENLIGHTENING POST! I do happen to disagree with your description of renewing your mind as it is inaccurate. The whole explanation comes up SHORT in effectuating the Born again Spiritual Life we are supposed to have. Which does not mean, Shotgun< that you are not "working" it successfully... but your theological explanation needs some adjustment. IMO this explanation represents a glass ceiling, is inaccurate about Satans work as well as ours.

Renewing the mind is to search the scripture and discover what GOD says about all matters pertaining to life and conforming our thinking to what GOD says. This is where the spiritual POWER is manifest in our lives and YES we are supposed to continue to fight against Satan as he is the god of this world and born again believers are not of this world rather of the kingdom of God. Satan is only defeated by our using the empowerment given us by Christ... which is our responsibility to USE and WORK. Satans ultimate "universal defeat" is told to us... but has not yet been executed. IF Satan was defeated already... than ALL MEN would be free in Christ... but that is not so.

We still have a conscience of sin because SIN still resides in the world, lingers in the flesh and carnal mind. Thus we are to "mortify" the lust of the flesh and assume the SPIRITUAL thinking and renew our mind as instructed.... to LEARN God's ways and walk according to them. WHICH has NOTHING to do with returning to empty rituals.

KennethC · Sep 17, 2015

Apostle Paul was a Pharisee who knew the law, yet he was not saved until he established his faith in the Lord and learned to walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh.

Apostle Paul says those who walk by the flesh are carnally minded and still sold under sin by the bondage of the law.

He was not saved by the OT scriptures alone, nor is anybody saved by the NT scriptures alone !!!

They are the teachings to point us to the belief in the one and only one that can save for:

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

They still had to believe and know the Lord our God to be saved !!!

1 Corinthians 10:1-2
For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea

KennethC · Sep 17, 2015

FreeNChrist said:

You are on ignore but I will answer this one question because this seems to be the issue that people focus on quantity !!!

It is not the quantity one does in life, but the quality on how one lives !!!

FreeNChrist · Sep 17, 2015

KennethC said:

Okay. So now it's the "quality" of the works another does that allows you to determine if they are saved or not. Got it.

KennethC · Sep 17, 2015

shotgunner said:

The answer to that question is found right there in Hebrews 10. First what does it mean not to have a sin consciousness?
Verse 2 of Hebrews 10 says that the old sacrifices could not make the worshipers perfect. Verse 11 then says that if the old sacrifices could have made the worshipers perfect then the offerings would have stopped because once purged they would have had no more conscience of sin. Verse 3 says that in those old sacrifices there was always a remembrance of sin because the blood of animals could never take away those sins.

The renewing of our minds we are to do is to know and fully realize that our sins have been purged,completely removed. We are now new creations. We are now the righteousness of God. We are no longer to struggle with sins. All we do when we remember sins and struggle against sins is to give them a position that does not belong to them. If we could only stop focusing on ourselves and our own sins we could focus on the finished work of Jesus, and the fact that our sins have been removed and have no power over us any longer. This is the way out of sin rather than the struggle of self against sin. Self never could conqueror sin and never will.

As long as you continue to fight against an enemy, that enemy has power. I am not saying to give in to sin and sin all you want. A saved person doesn't want to sin anyway. What I am saying is to know that sin has been conquered on the cross. The battle has already been won by Jesus. When we put our trust in him alone as the one who has dealt with our sin, we deny sin's hold on us. The victory is already won. All we need do is accept that victory by faith and the struggle over sin is done. The problem has been that the devil has us trying to win a battle that Christ has already won. We don't even know we are victorious and so we don't enjoy the spoils of victory.

We still have a conscience of sins because we cannot accept that Jesus has already dealt with sin. Jesus already paid the price. We have already been purged of sin. We have carnal minds that only look at self and how sinful self is and we try to correct self to be what we think is pleasing to God. Works don't please God. Faith is the only thing that pleases God. Faith in the finished work of Calvary. The carnal mind cannot accept the things of God. The carnal mind cannot grasp righteousness by faith alone, for the carnal mind will only see self and never see Jesus and what was done in the Spirit.

If the battle has already been won we would not have been told to put on the Whole Armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-18), and we would not be told only when we overcome the world and not given into the flesh will be saved.

The war is still going only not with flesh and blood, but against corruption and deception to lead people away from the truth !!!

crossnote · Sep 17, 2015

KennethC said:

Apostle Paul was a Pharisee who knew the law, yet he was not saved until he established his faith in the Lord and learned to walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh.

Apostle Paul says those who walk by the flesh are carnally minded and still sold under sin by the bondage of the law.

He was not saved by the OT scriptures alone, nor is anybody saved by the NT scriptures alone !!!

They are the teachings to point us to the belief in the one and only one that can save for:

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

They still had to believe and know the Lord our God to be saved !!!

1 Corinthians 10:1-2
For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea

He was saved the moment he was born again...it's not a process. Once regenerated then he learned to walk by faith.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 17, 2015

crossnote said:

it is no different with abraham.

He was declared righteous by God the moment he had faith, Thus saved forever at that one instant,

the rest he did (including all his sin) followed this one time of faith. and had no bearing on his eternal standing.

KennethC · Sep 17, 2015

crossnote said:

Well that is not what Apostle Paul said so you can take that up with him, because in Romans 7-8 he shows his transformation from a new believe to a mature believer in the faith.

He shows in Romans 8 that by no longer being carnally minded (walking by the flesh) but now walking by the Spirit there no longer hangs the condemnation of the law over him.

That is not even what Jesus said as our Lord said: "Those who endure to the end will be saved." (Matthew 10:22)

eternally-gratefull · Sep 17, 2015

KennethC said:

so one can have faith, proven by works. But this faith means nothing.

ok. You keep changing the requirements there my friend.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 17, 2015

KennethC said:

let me get this straight,

As an unbeliever, Paul wanted to do Gods will, but could not. even though according to scripture. the things of God are foolish to those who are not his. So he would never want to do them in the first place.

An unbeliever does not battle between the spirit and flesh, the spirit is DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is no battle.

KennethC · Sep 17, 2015

This is what the Word of God says about Abraham and his faith..............

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect (James 2:22)

crossnote · Sep 17, 2015

KennethC said:

This is probably the area of your confusion, you are mixing justification (when we are initially saved, regenerated/born again, forgiven ) and sanctification (the growing, learning, cleaning process).

FreeNChrist · Sep 17, 2015

KennethC said:

No, he was saved when he met and received the living resurrected Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, as we all are saved.

Indeed. Those who walk in the flesh are. But Christians are not those who walk in the flesh, we are those who walk in the Light.

He wasn't saved by OT scripture at all. He was saved by Jesus Christ, as we all are.

Ahhh, now you are beginning to come around. It is all about Jesus. He has risen! He is alive! And He has come to live in and through all who are His.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 17, 2015

KennethC said:

You skip everything that the word said.

Yes works completed the faith of abraham, All it took was one work.

Yet God does not need proof of work. Why do you humanize God.

Scrpture says "abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness (perfection)

That was before he DID ONE WORK..

So your argument is flawed and destroyed by scripture itself.

Your in total rejection of what James was speaking of. He spoke against licentiousness, Not against those who believed that salvation is of true faith (which produces true works)

He proved it in his original statement, I will prove my faith by my works, now you prove your faith by yours. If you CLAIM to have faith but HAVE ZERO ZIP NADA works, your faith is dead, Can this faith save you?

He asked a question, not making a statment of fact, Does mere belief save anyone? NO!!!!!!!!!!

A passage which says mere believe void of ANY work does not support your theory that one can have many works, and lose salvation.

Your argument of james is null and void. period.

KennethC · Sep 17, 2015

crossnote said:

I am not mixing anything as I do not put the cart before the horse that now day doctrines do.

When Jesus said to the disciples/Apostles in Matthew 10:22 about enduring to the end to be saved, He was not talking saved out of persecutions as some now day doctrines try to say. We know this because the following verse of Matthew 10:23 completely refutes that stance.

Lord Jesus even explained to them the persecutions they would face by giving His word, and in 23 tells them when they get persecuted in a town to flee to another (not He will save them out of them).

Lord Jesus even said in John 15:20 that they persecuted Him, they will persecute us because we are not above our Master(Lord). Now day doctrines teach an escape from persecutions of the world, but the Word of God does not !!!

Also all one has to do is do a research on what happened to the original Apostles and you will find they all were persecuted and even killed except for John who was exiled to Patmos.

Even in 1 Corinthians 1:18 the original context in the Greek shows a continuous process, which is why most translations besides the KJV shows "being saved."

eternally-gratefull · Sep 17, 2015

ps

when paul was saved, when timothy was saved, not one letter of the NT had been written yet.

KennethC · Sep 17, 2015

1 Corinthians 1:18

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

FreeNChrist · Sep 17, 2015

KennethC said:

So, for you it is only "mature" Christians who are saved??

Well, that is just you inserting your own thought into the text. Biblically "walk" refers to how one lives, and how Christians live is by faith in Jesus Christ. That we do so imperfectly does not change our identity. God does not divorce Himself from us as His children just because we stumble as we are walking.

Christians are those who endure to the end and are saved, because Christians are not those whose faith is in themselves and our own ability, we are those whose faith is in Christ, and He is able.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 17, 2015

matt 10 is not even speaking of spiritual salvation, it is speaking of enduring till the end of tribulation, and being saved from the wrath of God and men, and get to enter his kingdom alive.

That would be a blessing in itself.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 17, 2015

KennethC said:

Then you just explained why it is so foolish to you.

For us who are saved are being saved, and will recieve the end of our faith, the salvation of the lord. It all makes total sense.

We do not have to twist the word of God. Make it say somethinng it does not say, Take things out of context. and change meanings of words.

We take God literally and give him the credit.

How to Spot a Legalist

BarlyGurl

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crossnote

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