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Let me clarify a bit... it is not pointing at our sanctification but at our rescue from sin, eternal destruction, judgment etc. as members of the fallen human race.
Romans 1:16 (KJV) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 1:16 (KJV) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
E
there are many aspects of our salvation. Some of which will not be complete until the end of the age when we are resurrected.
It can be confusing, if one does not misinterpret it like some people do..
I am saved, I am being saved, I will be saved are all promises God has given anyone who receives his gift of eternal life.
To those being saved, it makes sense, To those who are lost, it is foolishness.
The wisdom of God is not according to the wisdom of this world.
It can be confusing, if one does not misinterpret it like some people do..
I am saved, I am being saved, I will be saved are all promises God has given anyone who receives his gift of eternal life.
To those being saved, it makes sense, To those who are lost, it is foolishness.
The wisdom of God is not according to the wisdom of this world.
You are seriously confused. I never claimed that men could administer Holy Spirit baptism.
Any baptism for the remission of sins must be Holy Spirit baptism for water baptism cannot save a soul.
I have no idea what you are depending upon for your salvation. You certainly are able to deceive yourself. You might even be able to deceive me but you can never deceive the Lord.
Your positions and assertions give little comfort to those who are concerned for your soul.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Any baptism for the remission of sins must be Holy Spirit baptism for water baptism cannot save a soul.
I have no idea what you are depending upon for your salvation. You certainly are able to deceive yourself. You might even be able to deceive me but you can never deceive the Lord.
Your positions and assertions give little comfort to those who are concerned for your soul.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
K
Then you contradict yourself because you said Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:16, and Acts 2:38 are Holy Spirit baptism.
Each one of those scriptures is the baptism that is done by us, it is commanded to us to do, and man can not administer the giving of the Holy Spirit. Only God gives Him to us directly, but those scriptures are for men to do !!!
Therefore they can not be the Holy Spirit baptism, but the process that leads to that receiving of the Holy Spirit.
Each one of those scriptures is the baptism that is done by us, it is commanded to us to do, and man can not administer the giving of the Holy Spirit. Only God gives Him to us directly, but those scriptures are for men to do !!!
Therefore they can not be the Holy Spirit baptism, but the process that leads to that receiving of the Holy Spirit.
Works by the power of God through faith brings forth good fruit= works of righteousness. A faith without works is dead as written, like a dead branch. If you are truly abiding in Christ you shall bring forth good fruit. If you do not bring forth good fruit (righteous works) then you will be cast forth like a dead branch and burned. Also if you are living in sin, you are not abiding in the Life of the vine, which means you are not abiding in Christ.
Jesus said in John 15:1-10 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]
7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.[SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”
Ok, some claim all Christians are sinners, and that they keep on sinning even though they have been saved. And even despite that disobedience and reoccurring sin they proclaim you still abide in Christ. This my friends is false, because you cannot remain in sin and in Christ at the same time.
Notice Jesus said in order to bear fruit one must abide in Him, that also means believing in and abiding in His words. And here is what it means to abide in Him…
1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
The seed mentioned there is Christ, but again to be in Christ is to 1 John 3:6 “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”
So the simple truth is in order to bear fruit we must abide in Christ, and to abide in Christ one must stop sinning.
Now if one is sinning are they truly in Christ? Not according to the Lords words above. Also we are given what happens if one in Him does not bear fruit in Jesus, as said in John 15:2 [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:” So anyone in him that does not bear fruit he takes away. And not only that we are told in verse 6 [SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Also we cannot bear fruit on our own except we abide in Him John 15:4 “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.” And again, to abide in Christ means you cannot abide in sin.
And if you remain in sin, then you truly don’t abide in Christ do you? And as Jesus said, those who do not abide in Him are cast forth as a branch, and then gathered and cast into the fire and burned.
Christ is not a vine of sin (minister of sin) Galatians 2:17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Anyone who says you can abide in sin and also remain in Christ at the same time is a liar and a deceiver.
Jesus said in John 15:1-10 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]
7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.[SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”
Ok, some claim all Christians are sinners, and that they keep on sinning even though they have been saved. And even despite that disobedience and reoccurring sin they proclaim you still abide in Christ. This my friends is false, because you cannot remain in sin and in Christ at the same time.
Notice Jesus said in order to bear fruit one must abide in Him, that also means believing in and abiding in His words. And here is what it means to abide in Him…
1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
The seed mentioned there is Christ, but again to be in Christ is to 1 John 3:6 “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”
So the simple truth is in order to bear fruit we must abide in Christ, and to abide in Christ one must stop sinning.
Now if one is sinning are they truly in Christ? Not according to the Lords words above. Also we are given what happens if one in Him does not bear fruit in Jesus, as said in John 15:2 [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:” So anyone in him that does not bear fruit he takes away. And not only that we are told in verse 6 [SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Also we cannot bear fruit on our own except we abide in Him John 15:4 “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.” And again, to abide in Christ means you cannot abide in sin.
And if you remain in sin, then you truly don’t abide in Christ do you? And as Jesus said, those who do not abide in Him are cast forth as a branch, and then gathered and cast into the fire and burned.
Christ is not a vine of sin (minister of sin) Galatians 2:17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Anyone who says you can abide in sin and also remain in Christ at the same time is a liar and a deceiver.
You continue to provide evidence that you do not possess the Holy Spirit because you do not receive the truth contained in the scriptures.
Mat 28-19-20 the word translated baptism means a submerging like a sunken ship. If as you contend that is water the poor soul is dead because he is not coming back up for air.
Mark 16:16 is weak in that the entire passage is suspect as to it's inclusion in the original writing of Mark.
Acts 2:38 is the clearest demonstration of Holy Spirit baptism because it is for the remission of sins. It also uses the greek word for baptism that denotes submergence like a sunken ship.
While your error is quite widespread it is still error. Water baptism cannot save and Holy Spirit baptism is administered by Christ the moment we receive Him as our Savior. We are immediately changed from dead in sins into alive eternally in Christ. Just like 2 Corinthians 5:17 describes.
Upon what does your assertion of salvation rest?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Mat 28-19-20 the word translated baptism means a submerging like a sunken ship. If as you contend that is water the poor soul is dead because he is not coming back up for air.
Mark 16:16 is weak in that the entire passage is suspect as to it's inclusion in the original writing of Mark.
Acts 2:38 is the clearest demonstration of Holy Spirit baptism because it is for the remission of sins. It also uses the greek word for baptism that denotes submergence like a sunken ship.
While your error is quite widespread it is still error. Water baptism cannot save and Holy Spirit baptism is administered by Christ the moment we receive Him as our Savior. We are immediately changed from dead in sins into alive eternally in Christ. Just like 2 Corinthians 5:17 describes.
Upon what does your assertion of salvation rest?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
K
You are the one who is in error and instead of facing those scriptures for what they say you go off rambling trying to prove your point but actually make no point at all.
The same Greek word Baptizo is used in all three of the passages, and I do know what Baptizo means and it is not just submerging as a sunken ship. That is just one part of the meaning and usage of that word.
Here is Strong's Greek defines it:
907 Baptizo - Short Definition: I dip, submerge, baptize
Definition: lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.
Here is how Thayer's Greek Lexicon show how the usage of this word is applied:
1. properly, to dip repeatedly, to immerge, submerge (of vessels sunk,Polybius 1, 51, 6; 8, 8, 4; of animals, Diodorus 1, 36).
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water; in the middle and the 1 aorist passive to wash oneself, bathe; soMark 7:4 (where WH text ῥαντισωνται); Luke 11:38 (2 Kings 5:14ἐβαπτίσατο ἐν τῷ Ιορδάνῃ, for טָבַל; Sir. 31:30 (Sir. 34:30; Judith 12:7).
3. metaphorically, to overwhelm,
to profess the name (see ὄνομα, 2) of one whose follower we become,Matthew 28:19; Acts 8:16; Acts 19:5; 1 Corinthians 1:13, 15; εἰς ἄφεσινἁμαρτιῶν, to obtain the forgiveness of sins, Acts 2:38;
Also you stated before man can not baptized with the Holy Spirit, and here is your quote:
"You are seriously confused. I never claimed that men could administer Holy Spirit baptism."
As you can see by those scriptures those were all commands for us (men) to do !!!
Therefore these can not be Holy Spirit baptism because if these are commands for us to do, and it is obvious you know that we can not administer the Holy Spirit to others, then you should be in agreement that this is the only baptism that men can administer and that is water immersion baptism in Christ name. If not then you are just still in denial of what they actually say.
God bless and I will pray for you........and my faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ and in that trust through Him for salvation I also trust in what He said for us to do !!!
Please do not pass judgment on me as I have never judged your salvation !!!
The same Greek word Baptizo is used in all three of the passages, and I do know what Baptizo means and it is not just submerging as a sunken ship. That is just one part of the meaning and usage of that word.
Here is Strong's Greek defines it:
907 Baptizo - Short Definition: I dip, submerge, baptize
Definition: lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.
Here is how Thayer's Greek Lexicon show how the usage of this word is applied:
1. properly, to dip repeatedly, to immerge, submerge (of vessels sunk,Polybius 1, 51, 6; 8, 8, 4; of animals, Diodorus 1, 36).
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water; in the middle and the 1 aorist passive to wash oneself, bathe; soMark 7:4 (where WH text ῥαντισωνται); Luke 11:38 (2 Kings 5:14ἐβαπτίσατο ἐν τῷ Ιορδάνῃ, for טָבַל; Sir. 31:30 (Sir. 34:30; Judith 12:7).
3. metaphorically, to overwhelm,
to profess the name (see ὄνομα, 2) of one whose follower we become,Matthew 28:19; Acts 8:16; Acts 19:5; 1 Corinthians 1:13, 15; εἰς ἄφεσινἁμαρτιῶν, to obtain the forgiveness of sins, Acts 2:38;
Also you stated before man can not baptized with the Holy Spirit, and here is your quote:
"You are seriously confused. I never claimed that men could administer Holy Spirit baptism."
As you can see by those scriptures those were all commands for us (men) to do !!!
Therefore these can not be Holy Spirit baptism because if these are commands for us to do, and it is obvious you know that we can not administer the Holy Spirit to others, then you should be in agreement that this is the only baptism that men can administer and that is water immersion baptism in Christ name. If not then you are just still in denial of what they actually say.
God bless and I will pray for you........and my faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ and in that trust through Him for salvation I also trust in what He said for us to do !!!
Please do not pass judgment on me as I have never judged your salvation !!!
