Hyper grace

[eternally-gratefull]

How is it bragging to give God the glory for what he does in our lives?

Oh I don;t know.

Thank God he gave me the victory over masterbation. And I am not like the sinner who still struggles with sin. like eg here who struggled with smoking..if he would have just trusted you, he would have quit.

You do not have to say the second part to come of as bragging. and no one would listen to what you say and think any different.

Would Paul have to be perfect if he is speaking as a Pharisee in those verses? Not at all.

Oh so he was perfect as a Christian, I get it (rolls eyes)

Your last two lines show how upset you are. If you continue to act this way, I will have to cease conversation with you, for your own good

For my own good? you are puffed up

Dude I went to war with legalism years ago. You are part of my battle, if you have to ignore me feel free to do it. I am not upset at you, I a at war with you. God is at war with you. Because people who struggle with sin can not be healed by you, only feel judged by you, and either lie and hide their sin like I did, or run away from god (like I eventually did) because they have no hope.

it is one thing to be like ken here, and try to work his way to heaven and be blind to it, I feel sorry for him, But you, you should know better.

 

[james57]

Oh I don;t know.

Thank God he gave me the victory over masterbation. And I am not like the sinner who still struggles with sin. like eg here who struggled with smoking..if he would have just trusted you, he would have quit.

You do not have to say the second part to come of as bragging. and no one would listen to what you say and think any different.



Oh so he was perfect as a Christian, I get it (rolls eyes)



For my own good? you are puffed up

Dude I went to war with legalism years ago. You are part of my battle, if you have to ignore me feel free to do it. I am not upset at you, I a at war with you. God is at war with you. Because people who struggle with sin can not be healed by you, only feel judged by you, and either lie and hide their sin like I did, or run away from god (like I eventually did) because they have no hope.

it is one thing to be like ken here, and try to work his way to heaven and be blind to it, I feel sorry for him, But you, you should know better.

Well it wont surprise me you want to be at war with me. The true resistance to grace has always come from the religious, not the non religious.

And I thought you believed there was great power in the cross of Christ.

How can you believe that, if you then believe Paul lived his whole Christian life as described in Rom 7:14-25

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep he used present tense speech, but was speaking of the past.

No. You do not say, that I WANT TO DO, I DO NOT DO. that I DO NOT WANT TO DO, I DO..

and speak of the past.

Paul was speaking ofd the current struggle we all go through in chapter seven, Not his past struggle As a pharsee he could never do good, he know that now, why would he lie to us and say he wanted to do good back then, let alone, not use past tense if he spoke of the past.

Firstly, you cannot explain to me how is not condemning himself in Rom7:14 according to what he wrote in Rom n6:16.

Secondly sin was definitely Pauls master in those verses from ch 7. Paul states sin will not be your master for you are not under law but under grace.

I already told you. Rom 6 paul is speaking of a lifestyle not of a particular sin.

So your lying saying I could not tell you.

In romans seven he is speaking of certain things he wants to stop but cant (it is obvious paul had pride issues, and continue to have them until he died.) and also things he wanted to do, but could not do. we do not know what these are, nor do they matter. but the context is not the same as romans 6.

so get over it.

 

[james57]

No. You do not say, that I WANT TO DO, I DO NOT DO. that I DO NOT WANT TO DO, I DO..

and speak of the past.

Paul was speaking ofd the current struggle we all go through in chapter seven, Not his past struggle As a pharsee he could never do good, he know that now, why would he lie to us and say he wanted to do good back then, let alone, not use past tense if he spoke of the past.





I already told you. Rom 6 paul is speaking of a lifestyle not of a particular sin.

So your lying saying I could not tell you.

In romans seven he is speaking of certain things he wants to stop but cant (it is obvious paul had pride issues, and continue to have them until he died.) and also things he wanted to do, but could not do. we do not know what these are, nor do they matter. but the context is not the same as romans 6.

so get over it.

I am going to put you on ignore I am afraid. As previously you distort what I write, make out I am saying things I do not say, and also start attacking me personally.

It is not surprising you have to believe Paul is speaking as a Christian in ch 7:14-25, sadly

Goodbye

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well it wont surprise me you want to be at war with me. The true resistance to grace has always come from the religious, not the non religious.

Look in the mirror. you will see the religious.

I am the least religious person you will ever find (ask anyone in here) . so you arrgument is prety week

And I thought you believed there was great power in the cross of Christ.

there is, God never promised we would be perfect now did he?

How can you believe that, if you then believe Paul lived his whole Christian life as described in Rom 7:14-25

The fact you do not think you are living it only saddens me, and proves you do not know how truly sinful you really are. You are either so dead to particular sins or blind that they are sin at all..

at the end of pauls life, he said he was still running the race. I guess you are better than he was, you act as if you already mastered it..

one thing I noticed since I got out of legalis, and ask anyone in here who is freed from it, The older we get, and the more mature we get, the more sinful we realise we really are.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree that legalistic-mindsets judge those that are struggling with a particular problem. I don't believe James was saying he is "special" and above others because of how God changed him. He was merely giving an example.

All of us give into the flesh at times...and these lead to destruction/death in our lives..some are more readily apparent. Let's say we as a Christian give into the flesh and murder someone. If we live in a country with the death penalty...guess what?..we are going to see Jesus real soon!

It's not a reflection of anything..it is not comparing themselves with others.

The answer to overcoming anything in this life is...growing in the knowledge and grace of our Lord Jesus!

In the meantime ..I agree with you in that we in the Body of Christ kick our wounded while they are down and judge them as inferior...BUT having the knowledge of grace will stop that from happening!

As we grow in grace the love of God in us compels us to weep with those that weep and to rejoice with those that rejoice.

When we see people struggling and have failed ( that's a subjective term )...we need to go and put our arms around them and tell them we love them and encourage them IN THE LORD!

People sadly think they are better than others.. this is dangerous, We think, oh I won victory over this one sin, I am righteous. Yet all the while ignoring the sins we still struggle with..

when we do this, satan has this right where he wants us.. I had to learn that the hard way sadly.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am going to put you on ignore I am afraid. As previously you distort what I write, make out I am saying things I do not say, and also start attacking me personally.

It is not surprising you have to believe Paul is speaking as a Christian in ch 7:14-25, sadly

Goodbye

Have a good life. I will pray you are healed. and pray some poor soul who suffers wiht a particular sin is led away from you not to you for you have no healing to offer anyone.

I grew up like you.

You think I do not know you. I WAS YOU..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree that legalistic-mindsets judge those that are struggling with a particular problem. I don't believe James was saying he is "special" and above others because of how God changed him. He was merely giving an example.

Then why will he not admit he was sorry I struggled for so long, and thank God that I was healed from so many other sins?

I know people like James, I was just like him, and watched so many peoiple walk away form God because of his mindset.

All of us give into the flesh at times...and these lead to destruction/death in our lives..some are more readily apparent. Let's say we as a Christian give into the flesh and murder someone. If we live in a country with the death penalty...guess what?..we are going to see Jesus real soon!

I agree, and many of us have a lifetime struggle with a besetting sin, Some it is pride, some it is anger, some it is lack of faith in a particual area. Some of it is with drugs or porn or whatever..

are they less children of God? James would never admit it, at least he never did, now did he?

It's not a reflection of anything..it is not comparing themselves with others.

The answer to overcoming anything in this life is...growing in the knowledge and grace of our Lord Jesus!

In the meantime ..I agree with you in that we in the Body of Christ kick our wounded while they are down and judge them as inferior...BUT having the knowledge of grace will stop that from happening!

As we grow in grace the love of God in us compels us to weep with those that weep and to rejoice with those that rejoice.

When we see people struggling and have failed ( that's a subjective term )...we need to go and put our arms around them and tell them we love them and encourage them IN THE LORD!

amen,

all legalism comes when we compair ourselves to others, it is the human thing to do..

When we compair ourselves to God. we would NEVER think we are better than any other person who ever walked the earth. That is rality.

 

[ladylynn]

Look in the mirror. you will see the religious.

I am the least religious person you will ever find (ask anyone in here) . so you arrgument is prety week


there is, God never promised we would be perfect now did he?



The fact you do not think you are living it only saddens me, and proves you do not know how truly sinful you really are. You are either so dead to particular sins or blind that they are sin at all..

at the end of pauls life, he said he was still running the race. I guess you are better than he was, you act as if you already mastered it..

one thing I noticed since I got out of legalis, and ask anyone in here who is freed from it, The older we get, and the more mature we get, the more sinful we realise we really are.

What??? This makes no sense.. What happened here??

 

[james57]

What??? This makes no sense.. What happened here??

Eternally grateful got upset at my post of how a particular sin was overcome in my life.

And the fact I stated Paul is speaking as a Pharisee, not Christian in Rom7:14-25, as he obviously must be.

However, there is a vast difference between where Paul was in those verses and perfection. Christians in truth should be somewhere in between the two, but only new Christians should be where Paul is in rom 7:14-25, or those who have never understood the truth of grace

 

[Grace777x70]

Sometimes because of the spiritual abuse we have suffered in the past it causes us to "read" things into posts. Sometimes it's a phrase or a particular word that triggers it.

I didn't see him judging you and thinking he was super righteous because of what the Lord did for him. I didn't think he was saying if someone still struggles with something that they are inferior.

We all stumble in the flesh....and we are not perfect in our flesh. Our inner man..our new man that is in Christ is where the Lord has made us righteous and holy.

It's a mis-understanding....let's forgive each other and keep our eyes on Jesus! He is our life and answer!

Ok now..you'll have to kiss and make up with each other...lol..wait..it is scriptural too..

Romans 16:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

Then why will he not admit he was sorry I struggled for so long, and thank God that I was healed from so many other sins?

I know people like James, I was just like him, and watched so many peoiple walk away form God because of his mindset.





I agree, and many of us have a lifetime struggle with a besetting sin, Some it is pride, some it is anger, some it is lack of faith in a particual area. Some of it is with drugs or porn or whatever..

are they less children of God? James would never admit it, at least he never did, now did he?





amen,

all legalism comes when we compair ourselves to others, it is the human thing to do..

When we compair ourselves to God. we would NEVER think we are better than any other person who ever walked the earth. That is rality.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally grateful got upset at my post of how a particular sin was overcome in my life.

see the dues a liar and con not even admit it. This is not even what started the argument.


This is what happened..

And the fact I stated Paul is speaking as a Pharisee, not Christian in Rom7:14-25, as he obviously must be.

this does not upset me. This is just foolishness to think paul never struggled with any sin again. It is sad, and makes me sad for the people who believe this.

 

[Grace777x70]

I never sin in my flesh!!...oppsss...looks like I just lied!..lol

Eternally grateful got upset at my post of how a particular sin was overcome in my life.

And the fact I stated Paul is speaking as a Pharisee, not Christian in Rom7:14-25, as he obviously must be.

However, there is a vast difference between where Paul was in those verses and perfection. Christians in truth should be somewhere in between the two, but only new Christians should be where Paul is in rom 7:14-25, or those who have never understood the truth of grace

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sometimes because of the spiritual abuse we have suffered in the past it causes us to "read" things into posts. Sometimes it's a phrase or a particular word that triggers it.

I didn't see him judging you and thinking he was super righteous because of what the Lord did for him. I didn't think he was saying if someone still struggles with something that they are inferior.

We all stumble in the flesh....and we are not perfect in our flesh. Our inner man..our new man that is in Christ is where the Lord has made us righteous and holy.

It's a mis-understanding....let's forgive each other and keep our eyes on Jesus! He is our life and answer!

Ok now..you'll have to kiss and make up with each other...lol..wait..it is scriptural too..

Romans 16:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

hey bud.,

I was like him, I know how to speak his language, look at the key words.

Look at what he said, He thinks I am mad because he overcame a sin, Nothing further from the truth, All it is is an attemp by him to skirt the true issue,

I asked him many times about people who won victories in many areas of their lives but still struggle in a few areas. Did he ever answer me? No.. Why is that do you think??

Instead, I am mad because he won victory.. Well guess what I won victory over the same sin he did, and it did not take me as long, Notice he did not even respond to that.
and not even what started the argument.

The best thing to do is try to figure out what the discussion started. and not try to guess you know the answer.

it is not the first time him and I have gotten into this argument, it happened awhile ago.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Sorry..I can't help you.

I'm sure I said that Christ was our righteousness at least 7 times now in this thread...we do not go around trying to establish our own righteousness.

If you want to make up a term called justified sinner for yourself....that's your choice...I'm sorry I can't agree to it because it goes against the scriptures that say otherwise. We are either a saint or a sinner. We were a sinner but a man named Jesus changed us by what He did! The justified sinner term violates the new creation we are in Christ.

Sorry...I can't help you....

Yeah you said Christ is our righteousness, and you've also said several (many?) times that you are the righteousness of GOD. I could believe this waffling back and forth was just sloppiness of communication if it weren't for the fact that you agree with heretical teachings of people like Farley. I think you really believe what they teach.

I'm beginning to understand how you compartmentalize your beliefs, like PeterJens said. I know you can't help me. You have nothing to offer me. You can't even help yourself.

 

[Grace777x70]

So,...if you feel that is true...does that mean there is no room for grace and forgiveness.....or that kiss?..( just trying to add some humor )

hey bud.,

I was like him, I know how to speak his language, look at the key words.

Look at what he said, He thinks I am mad because he overcame a sin, Nothing further from the truth, All it is is an attemp by him to skirt the true issue,

I asked him many times about people who won victories in many areas of their lives but still struggle in a few areas. Did he ever answer me? No.. Why is that do you think??

Instead, I am mad because he won victory.. Well guess what I won victory over the same sin he did, and it did not take me as long, Notice he did not even respond to that.
and not even what started the argument.

The best thing to do is try to figure out what the discussion started. and not try to guess you know the answer.

it is not the first time him and I have gotten into this argument, it happened awhile ago.

 

[james57]

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP][c][/SUP] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.[SUP]21 [/SUP]So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord
Rom 7:14-25




So Christians believe for the whole of Pauls life he was sold as a slave to sin.


He could not do the good he wanted to do, but what he hated to do he did instead.

He had the desire to do what is good but could not carry it out.

Paul delights in God's law, but instead is a prisoner of the law of sin


But then Paul states:



For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace Rom 6:14

If Paul is speaking as a Christian in verses 14-25 of romans 7 he is condemning himself, according to Rom 6:14&16. And he is plainly preaching a message he cannot anywhere near live up to in his own life.

How in the world can we square rom 7:14-25 with the following:

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. [SUP]6 [/SUP]The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace Rom 8:5&6

Once again Paul is condemning himself if he is speaking as a Christian in ch 7 14-25

Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. verse6

And again
Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 12&13

And again

 

[Grace777x70]

...sorry if it offends you..it is not meant to....if the fact that Christ is our righteousness and we have the righteousness of God because Christ is in us...it is saying the same thing...you will just have to be offended in this...

We can pray for another and walk in the love of God that we have inside us...unless that is heretical to say too?

sorry..I just can't help you...

Yeah you said Christ is our righteousness, and you've also said several (many?) times that you are the righteousness of GOD. I could believe this waffling back and forth was just sloppiness of communication if it weren't for the fact that you agree with heretical teachings of people like Farley. I think you really believe what they teach.

I'm beginning to understand how you compartmentalize your beliefs, like PeterJens said. I know you can't help me. You have nothing to offer me. You can't even help yourself.

 

[Grace777x70]

An observation:

There has been a subtle but massive shift over the centuries from preaching the gospel - the good news that Chris alone saved you and Christ alone continues to save you - to preaching the demands of our "human response".

I am incapable of generating faith on my own as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. If self-effort is involved, it is not faith.

The gospel does not demand faith...it supplies it.

The true flavor of faith is not striving "to do". That is willpower, not faith. The flavor of faith is resting in the completed work of Christ for us.

The fruit of this resting in Him produces the fruit of His life in our everyday lives. And Christ gets all the glory!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

...sorry if it offends you..it is not meant to....if the fact that Christ is our righteousness and we have the righteousness of God because Christ is in us...it is saying the same thing...you will just have to be offended in this...

We can pray for another and walk in the love of God that we have inside us...unless that is heretical to say too?

sorry..I just can't help you...

LOL, I don't need your help. I'm not asking for your help. I'm pointing out inconsistencies in your beliefs. You compartmentalize what you believe and shut out the box that says there is nothing good about you, and then twist scripture to cover it up. That IMO makes your faith not whole.

For I know that good does not live in me, that is, in my flesh. For the willing is present in me, but the doing [of] the good [is] not. Romans 7:18​