Hypergrace Mockers

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ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,280
89
48
#1
Hypergrace and Easy Believism Mockers

This teacher makes some valid points. Although there is an exception though. There are saved people, who also sadly, mock hyper grace. There are born again Christians who do fall into a works based salvation heresy, and start to mock hyper grace (aka Easy Believism). And so I only disagree with Jack on this particular, since I understand that Christians can fall into legalism, Lordship Salvation, Calvinism, Arminianism, Hard Believism, etc. Just as the Christians at Galatia were being bewitched by the Judaizers. And so just because somebody mocks Hyper Grace or Easy Believism, it does not mean they are lost. They might be lost, or they might not be lost. The issue is, has that person ever trusted in Jesus Christ alone for their Salvation. And besides it is probably even safe to say that about over 85% to 90% of all Christians reject "Hyper Grace and Easy Believism." I guess Easy Believism is not so "Easy" after all.

Other than this though, everything else he says in the video is spot on. We do not have to turn from our sins to be saved. If we have to stop sinning to be saved, then that is works for salvation. And that is heresy. If we have to be deserving of Grace, or do something to merit Grace, then it is not Real Grace. Biblical Grace is unmeritable. Another good point he brings up in the video is when he says a Christian is not named after his sin, (or Identified with his sin). This also is true. There is a difference between a Christian that commits a sin like fornication VERSUS a Lost sinner who is a Fornicator. Likewise, there is a difference between a Christian who committed the sin of stealing VERSUS a lost sinner who is a thief. And what's the difference?? One Person is saved and the other person is Lost. It is that simple. All Lost sinners are named after their sin and identified with their sin since they are still IN their sins. And still dead in Adam. Christians are not named after the sins they commit because they are not in their sins, but rather, they are IN Christ, and there is no sin in Christ. So that's the only difference. Christians are still sinners, but only according their flesh (Old Sin Nature). It is also important to understand that We are Saints according to our Position in Christ (Our Standing) and in accordance with our New Nature (which is Righteous and Holy). And another important truth to understand is that God does not view His children in regard to their Old Man, but He views them in regard to their New Man. God sees us as Saints since he views us in accordance with our New Nature and our Position in His Son (Jesus Christ). And in our Standing, we are Holy, Just, Pure, godly, and Righteous. Even if we are not living holy, we still are Holy. Due to our Standing and Position in Christ. Even if a Christian is living in sin (aka "living like the devil"), still though, his holy and righteous Standing (New Man, New Creature in Christ) is not affected at all.

On the Contrary, no matter how good, and how moral, a lost sinner dead in Adam, tries to live, he is still ungodly, unrighteous, unholy, and unjust. And this is because of his position in Adam, he is still dead In Adam, and Dead in his sins and trespasses.
In conclusion, I am not against "Hyper Grace" or "Easy Believism." We need all the grace we can have. And Because none of us were worthy to be saved. If we are not saved by God's Grace through Faith alone in Christ alone, then we are not saved at all. But thanks be to God that we are saved by Grace through Faith alone in Christ alone.


 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,164
4,367
113
#2
I thought Threads concerning Hyper Grace were not allowed?
 

Blackpowderduelist

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,406
589
113
Babylon
#4
I think this guy's may be mistaking what is meant by hyper-grace. It's my understanding that "hyper-grace" is that grace is given to all regardless of faith. That even those who don't believe are saved.
But who knows and who cares?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
4,773
3,982
113
#5
Let's just follow Jesus and obey His Word, and we will be good to go.

Matthew
22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,280
89
48
#6
I think this guy's may be mistaking what is meant by hyper-grace. It's my understanding that "hyper-grace" is that grace is given to all regardless of faith. That even those who don't believe are saved.
But who knows and who cares?
Actually, the last statement you made, sir, would fall under universalism. I don't teach universalism. One must repent toward God and place their faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,280
89
48
#7
Let's just follow Jesus and obey His Word, and we will be good to go.

Matthew
22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Well, once we are saved, we certainly should follow Jesus Christ and obey His holy word. Discipleship is to come after Salvation. Salvation is God knowing us. And Discipleship is us knowing God.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
6,407
423
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#8
And another important truth to understand is that God does not view His children in regard to their Old Man, but He views them in regard to their New Man. God sees us as Saints since he views us in accordance with our New Nature and our Position in His Son (Jesus Christ). And in our Standing, we are Holy, Just, Pure, godly, and Righteous. Even if we are not living holy, we still are Holy. Due to our Standing and Position in Christ. Even if a Christian is living in sin (aka "living like the devil"), still though, his holy and righteous Standing (New Man, New Creature in Christ) is not affected at all.

Hi Chosenbyhim.

Our Position in Christ does not give license to lead a sinful life.. Aka ''living like the devil''.


V. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified (o,) and although they can never fall from the state of justification;(p) yet they may, by their sins, fall under God’s fatherly displeasure, and not have the light of His countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.(q)

(o) Matt. 6:12; I John 1:7, 9; I John 2:1, 2.
(p) Luke 22:32; John 10:28; Heb. 10:14.
(q) Ps. 89:31, 32, 33; Ps. 51:7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12; Ps. 32:5; Matt. 26:75; I Cor. 11:30, 32; Luke 1:20. (WCF)




Do you see the difference.. Hyper grace say that you can ''live like the devil'' . The bible would say that this person was probably not Justified in the first place. For as Christians Know if we live in sin or sins we DO feel the Fathers displeasure which bring us back to a restored Joy in the Lord. Why is Hyper grace so dangerous - they skirt with antinimianism.

I have to add that some Christians struggle with addictions for years, even a life time, but that is not the same as living in sin ''aka ''like the devil''.


Hyper grace is a dangerous theology!
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
4,773
3,982
113
#9
I have to add that some Christians struggle with addictions for years, even a life time, but that is not the same as living in sin ''aka ''like the devil''.
Amen and Amen.
 

Blackpowderduelist

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,406
589
113
Babylon
#10
Actually, the last statement you made, sir, would fall under universalism. I don't teach universalism. One must repent toward God and place their faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved.
Ok cool.
I believe in saved by grace, through faith. A complete and total gift, not of works by any means, except the works of Jesus Christ, which effects righteousness for us. That our works are futile, in effecting grace or salvation however you like to phrase it.
Basically if your faith is in your own works you re just as lost as an unbeliever.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
8,275
1,263
113
#11
" oh you believe that once your saved you stay saved "
" yes that's what the bible says "
" Oh so you teach that you can live like the devil , and do what you want "
" hmm ,why was that your first response , who taught you that ? "
 

Blackpowderduelist

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,406
589
113
Babylon
#13
Is this a [License to Sin] Thread?
Meritorious works salvationists are the ones issuing a license to sin. That sin being pride and self sufficiency, and idolatrous faith in meritorious works. Turning it's patrons into smug self worshippers who treat people with no compassion, and indifference because they have to get done with this works so they can mount up the next.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,164
4,367
113
#14
And another important truth to understand is that God does not view His children in regard to their Old Man, but He views them in regard to their New Man. God sees us as Saints since he views us in accordance with our New Nature and our Position in His Son (Jesus Christ). And in our Standing, we are Holy, Just, Pure, godly, and Righteous. Even if we are not living holy, we still are Holy. Due to our Standing and Position in Christ. Even if a Christian is living in sin (aka "living like the devil"), still though, his holy and righteous Standing (New Man, New Creature in Christ) is not affected at all.

Not buying this at all! OSASers mislead many a person with this teaching.

One thing is: When God looks at a person who is "saved," HE SEES THE BLOOD OF JESUS which covers our sinfulness we ALL have as humans in this life.

ANY person "living like the devil" IS NOT A CHRISTIAN! And this teaching is what will cause many a person to be forever surprised to hear Jesus say to them "get thee hence, I never knew you........." And ANYONE who teaches this to people WILL answer for those they lead astray!!!!!!!!!!!!

(my thoughts)
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,164
4,367
113
#15
ONCEFALLEN has posted:

We (Christian Chat) believe that the doctrine of Hyper-Grace as preached by some "big name" pastors is just as much in error as the legalism pushed by others.

We have never prohibited users who subscribed to either extreme from posting here but from time to time we end up having to crack down because we end up with every thread becoming overrun with the same debate no matter what subject it originally started off on.

Just to remind people here how divisive this subject/teaching can be............ just saying
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,537
236
63
#16
I think this guy's may be mistaking what is meant by hyper-grace. It's my understanding that "hyper-grace" is that grace is given to all regardless of faith. That even those who don't believe are saved.
But who knows and who cares?
Ah true.. I never thought of hyper grace that way.. thanks
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,428
1,353
113
#17
Even if a Christian is living in sin (aka "living like the devil"), still though, his holy and righteous Standing (New Man, New Creature in Christ) is not affected at all.

On the Contrary, no matter how good, and how moral, a lost sinner dead in Adam, tries to live, he is still ungodly, unrighteous, unholy, and unjust. And this is because of his position in Adam, he is still dead In Adam, and Dead in his sins and trespasses.
In conclusion, I am not against "Hyper Grace" or "Easy Believism." We need all the grace we can have. And Because none of us were worthy to be saved. If we are not saved by God's Grace through Faith alone in Christ alone, then we are not saved at all. But thanks be to God that we are saved by Grace through Faith alone in Christ
True we are saved by Grace only, not by our works but it is also true the wages of sin is death. If we do not take our sin to the Lord for forgiveness, sin we repent of, our sin kills us not matter if we had taken sins to the Lord for forgiveness in our past. Scripture is truth, and we earn death through sin that are not forgiven.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
15,877
9,544
113
74
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#18
Well, once we are saved, we certainly should follow Jesus Christ and obey His holy word. Discipleship is to come after Salvation. Salvation is God knowing us. And Discipleship is us knowing God.
Bottom line: Those of us called of God will automatically obey Christ and our fruits will be of the right kind. If we say we are called and show forth the wrong fruits, better look out. ;)
 
Mar 14, 2011
72,944
16,167
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#19
licentious true easy believers thing true grace are legalists because we call out their sin

legalists who believe salvation can be lost call us easy believers because we believe in eternal security based on the fact he who began a good work will complete it

if you believe in osas/eternal life/eternal security, your caught in the middle of these two groups who based on their failure to repent, do NT understand what it takes to become poor in spirit to enter the kingdom
 

Blade

Active member
Nov 19, 2019
454
187
43
#20
Not sure I would have to ask but I don't think its not allowed but maybe preaching it as fact not caring about others. We do understand there can be many that truly don't know and wonder right? Hyper Grace.. some in that believe you still sin still need to repent. We know this right? Yet Hyper Grace.. for me its name calling. Well those that believe in this grace never call them selfs that.. why would I do it unless to mock or make fun of them. Let me be clear I said "I" would. Like "prosperity Gospel". To here those that believe in prosperity and say "there is no such thing in the bible as "prosperity Gospel" and they don't like being called that. Do we care? :)

So from what I read the OP is not preaching it just maybe trying to bring some together or the like. I don't know who this person is in the video. Even in this thread some talk as if their personal believe if the true gospel. I listen to many preachers around this world and I can hear see my Jesus. Other things they say I don't agree with :). Well all grow differently in the Spirit. No matter how much we KNOW here we can still be a baby in Christ. Some talking can be weak in the Faith. Just talk what He said in His word in love.. His word will always cut to the heart. He not us He alone can change the heart. Has to be in love to help to uplift bring them that might be in error back.