Hypergrace Mockers

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CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#42
Hypergrace and Easy Believism Mockers

This teacher makes some valid points. Although there is an exception though. There are saved people, who also sadly, mock hyper grace. There are born again Christians who do fall into a works based salvation heresy, and start to mock hyper grace (aka Easy Believism). And so I only disagree with Jack on this particular, since I understand that Christians can fall into legalism, Lordship Salvation, Calvinism, Arminianism, Hard Believism, etc. Just as the Christians at Galatia were being bewitched by the Judaizers. And so just because somebody mocks Hyper Grace or Easy Believism, it does not mean they are lost. They might be lost, or they might not be lost. The issue is, has that person ever trusted in Jesus Christ alone for their Salvation. And besides it is probably even safe to say that about over 85% to 90% of all Christians reject "Hyper Grace and Easy Believism." I guess Easy Believism is not so "Easy" after all.

Other than this though, everything else he says in the video is spot on. We do not have to turn from our sins to be saved. If we have to stop sinning to be saved, then that is works for salvation. And that is heresy. If we have to be deserving of Grace, or do something to merit Grace, then it is not Real Grace. Biblical Grace is unmeritable. Another good point he brings up in the video is when he says a Christian is not named after his sin, (or Identified with his sin). This also is true. There is a difference between a Christian that commits a sin like fornication VERSUS a Lost sinner who is a Fornicator. Likewise, there is a difference between a Christian who committed the sin of stealing VERSUS a lost sinner who is a thief. And what's the difference?? One Person is saved and the other person is Lost. It is that simple. All Lost sinners are named after their sin and identified with their sin since they are still IN their sins. And still dead in Adam. Christians are not named after the sins they commit because they are not in their sins, but rather, they are IN Christ, and there is no sin in Christ. So that's the only difference. Christians are still sinners, but only according their flesh (Old Sin Nature). It is also important to understand that We are Saints according to our Position in Christ (Our Standing) and in accordance with our New Nature (which is Righteous and Holy). And another important truth to understand is that God does not view His children in regard to their Old Man, but He views them in regard to their New Man. God sees us as Saints since he views us in accordance with our New Nature and our Position in His Son (Jesus Christ). And in our Standing, we are Holy, Just, Pure, godly, and Righteous. Even if we are not living holy, we still are Holy. Due to our Standing and Position in Christ. Even if a Christian is living in sin (aka "living like the devil"), still though, his holy and righteous Standing (New Man, New Creature in Christ) is not affected at all.

On the Contrary, no matter how good, and how moral, a lost sinner dead in Adam, tries to live, he is still ungodly, unrighteous, unholy, and unjust. And this is because of his position in Adam, he is still dead In Adam, and Dead in his sins and trespasses.
In conclusion, I am not against "Hyper Grace" or "Easy Believism." We need all the grace we can have. And Because none of us were worthy to be saved. If we are not saved by God's Grace through Faith alone in Christ alone, then we are not saved at all. But thanks be to God that we are saved by Grace through Faith alone in Christ alone.


Here is the error in the context of the term "hyper Grace"

I guess regular Gods Grace is not good enough ? oh no! We got to have Hyper grace!

it's unbiblical. The word hyper in context to the word Grace is not in the BIBLE. So mocking a term like "Hyper grace " is appropriate
because There is no such thing. For one to legitimize the term "Hyper grace " is just as wrong as coining the phrase " Gay Christian".
When a person says: "There are saved people, who also sadly, mock hyper grace."

is a statement that in some way there actually is something known as "Hyper grace". I am sure there, just not in the Bible.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
8,274
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#44
Grace is a ubiquitous reality, not a selective force. (Tit. 2:11-13)

22. Grace is just fine on it’s own as it’s found in scripture. Any modifier other than “free,” such as “sovereign,” “irresistible,” or “prevenient” indicate someone is either confused or attempting to confuse. (Rom. 3:24; 5:15; Jn. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-13)
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
1,042
608
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#45
It is also important to understand that We are Saints according to our Position in Christ (Our Standing) and in accordance with our New Nature (which is Righteous and Holy). And another important truth to understand is that God does not view His children in regard to their Old Man, but He views them in regard to their New Man. God sees us as Saints since he views us in accordance with our New Nature and our Position in His Son (Jesus Christ). And in our Standing, we are Holy, Just, Pure, godly, and Righteous. Even if we are not living holy, we still are Holy. Due to our Standing and Position in Christ. Even if a Christian is living in sin (aka "living like the devil"), still though, his holy and righteous Standing (New Man, New Creature in Christ) is not affected at all.

On the Contrary, no matter how good, and how moral, a lost sinner dead in Adam, tries to live, he is still ungodly, unrighteous, unholy, and unjust. And this is because of his position in Adam, he is still dead In Adam, and Dead in his sins and trespasses.
In conclusion, I am not against "Hyper Grace" or "Easy Believism." We need all the grace we can have. And Because none of us were worthy to be saved. If we are not saved by God's Grace through Faith alone in Christ alone, then we are not saved at all. But thanks be to God that we are saved by Grace through Faith alone in Christ alone.
I would suggest that if you are living like the devil, you are not a saint.

About grace: Actual grace, God's grace? Does NOT ignore a Christian living like the devil as you put it

In case anyone has forgotten the Hypergrace debates and wonder why they are no longer allowed, I would say this op is a great reminder
 

Edify

Active member
Jan 27, 2021
197
67
28
#46
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you are either a 'hired-hand, and/or a servant of the dark one'...
absurdity is your m.o. = your time is running out real quick here,
one way or another - your transparency is so clear - a child could read your mind!!!
When you said 'hired hand', the words 'internet sockpuppet' came to mind. Was that what you were thinking?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
8,274
1,263
113
#47
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you are either a 'hired-hand, and/or a servant of the dark one'...
absurdity is your m.o. = your time is running out real quick here,
one way or another - your transparency is so clear - a child could read your mind!!!
I'd never compare myself to Jesus but He also received a similar response .
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#48
I would suggest that if you are living like the devil, you are not a saint.

About grace: Actual grace, God's grace? Does NOT ignore a Christian living like the devil as you put it

In case anyone has forgotten the Hypergrace debates and wonder why they are no longer allowed, I would say this op is a great reminder
the Issue with hypergrace was the wars it caused, many people on both sides were banned, the hatred from those who refused to listen was severe it had to be stopped even talking about it,
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#49
Here is the error in the context of the term "hyper Grace"

I guess regular Gods Grace is not good enough ? oh no! We got to have Hyper grace!

it's unbiblical. The word hyper in context to the word Grace is not in the BIBLE. So mocking a term like "Hyper grace " is appropriate
because There is no such thing. For one to legitimize the term "Hyper grace " is just as wrong as coining the phrase " Gay Christian".
When a person says: "There are saved people, who also sadly, mock hyper grace."

is a statement that in some way there actually is something known as "Hyper grace". I am sure there, just not in the Bible.
Or we could just read the word,

from someone who understand what hyper grace means and knows where it came from

For starters, you may be shocked to discover that “hyper-grace” is really the only adequate description for grace in the first place, according to the Bible. For example, when Paul wrote in Romans 5:20 that “…where sin increased, grace increased all the more” he was literally referring to God’s grace as “hyper.”

The Greek term for the phrase “increased all the more” (NIV) is huper-perisseuo which literally means “super-abounded.” Hyper is simply a transliteration of the prefix “huper” in Greek and means “above and beyond” in scope or quality. The term “perisseuo” refers to that which is “in far excess of what might be expected, superfluous or gratuitous.”

So in Paul’s description of God’s amazing grace, he is literally saying that because of the abundance of sin in this world, God’s grace has super-abounded in order to rescue us from sin! Paul literally describes God’s grace as HYPER in this passage. It is super-abundant and unfathomably plentiful and powerful. In fact, a few verses later Paul would state that the very reason sin is no longer our master is because we are no longer under law, but under this hyper-abounding grace (Rom. 6:14)!

Literally speaking, hypergrace teaches that where sin sin increase, grace increases above and beyond even that sin, literally, compared to sin issue, gods grace is far superior or “hyper”

like before when these discussions happenEd no one wants to study it, they just want to attack what they do not like
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#50
Is this a [License to Sin] Thread?
No person who teaches grace teaches a license to sin,

licentious people do not even follow the word, they say a prayer and live however they please, you can not tell,them from the world, as they live like the world, they claim they are saved because they believe. You won’t fi d them in churches, you won’t find them reading the Bible and you won’t find them praising god for anything.

they are just as bad as the legalistic pharisee who thinks he is righteous based on how great a person he is, how much he obeys gods law, and how he is not liIe the sinner, pumping their chests and rejecting grace, all the while claiming they are saved by grace,

they are the more dangerous group, because they look like christian, it are not even close
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
6,407
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#51
Or we could just read the word,

from someone who understand what hyper grace means and knows where it came from

For starters, you may be shocked to discover that “hyper-grace” is really the only adequate description for grace in the first place, according to the Bible. For example, when Paul wrote in Romans 5:20 that “…where sin increased, grace increased all the more” he was literally referring to God’s grace as “hyper.”

The Greek term for the phrase “increased all the more” (NIV) is huper-perisseuo which literally means “super-abounded.” Hyper is simply a transliteration of the prefix “huper” in Greek and means “above and beyond” in scope or quality. The term “perisseuo” refers to that which is “in far excess of what might be expected, superfluous or gratuitous.”

So in Paul’s description of God’s amazing grace, he is literally saying that because of the abundance of sin in this world, God’s grace has super-abounded in order to rescue us from sin! Paul literally describes God’s grace as HYPER in this passage. It is super-abundant and unfathomably plentiful and powerful. In fact, a few verses later Paul would state that the very reason sin is no longer our master is because we are no longer under law, but under this hyper-abounding grace (Rom. 6:14)!

Literally speaking, hypergrace teaches that where sin sin increase, grace increases above and beyond even that sin, literally, compared to sin issue, gods grace is far superior or “hyper”

like before when these discussions happenEd no one wants to study it, they just want to attack what they do not like

That's true God's grace is Hyper, meaning extremely active.

But, when we refer to those who hold to 'hyper-grace' we are referring to their faulty view of God's grace. When 'hyper' is used as a prefix to theological system it refers to it being extreme in other words in extreme error. Like - Hyper Dispensationalist; Hyper-Calvinists, Hyper-grace they are all in error.

Their teaching does skirt with antinomianism, no need to worry about sin.

I think it is very important to make that point. In fact the distinction is essential. (I've also read on this subject)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#52
That's true God's grace is Hyper, meaning extremely active.

But, when we refer to those who hold to 'hyper-grace' we are referring to their faulty view of God's grace. When 'hyper' is used as a prefix to theological system it refers to it being extreme in other words in extreme error. Like - Hyper Dispensationalist; Hyper-Calvinists, Hyper-grace they are all in error.

Their teaching does skirt with antinomianism, no need to worry about sin.

I think it is very important to make that point. In fact the distinction is essential. (I've also read on this subject)
Show me a hyper grace teacher that teaches sin is ok, and we do not have to worry about it, that we can go out and live however we want,

as with last time this discussion happened, I hear a lot of accusations, but I have yet to see proof, in fact, we found proof they were teaching true discipleship and true victory over sin.
it’s almost like the calvin argument, I hate double predestination so I have to attack them all because they are not my brother, you and some of the vicious attack against you should help you be able to see this.

I might not like everything they say, just I do not particularly like everything you say, but I am not going to attack with slander and lie about them because they go against what I believe to be true
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
6,407
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#53
Show me a hyper grace teacher that teaches sin is ok, and we do not have to worry about it, that we can go out and live however we want,

as with last time this discussion happened, I hear a lot of accusations, but I have yet to see proof, in fact, we found proof they were teaching true discipleship and true victory over sin.
it’s almost like the calvin argument, I hate double predestination so I have to attack them all because they are not my brother, you and some of the vicious attack against you should help you be able to see this.

I might not like everything they say, just I do not particularly like everything you say, but I am not going to attack with slander and lie about them because they go against what I believe to be true


Hi EG,

I never said that a hyper grace teacher said it is ok to sin! I said they have a view of need to worry about it as its all been taking care of already..no need for confession no need to repent. So obviously sin is not to be worried about in the believer.
Do you see the difference.

Hyper grace is a dangerous theology.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#54
Hi EG,

I never said that a hyper grace teacher said it is ok to sin! I said they have a view of need to worry about it as its all been taking care of already..no need for confession no need to repent. So obviously sin is not to be worried about in the believer.
Do you see the difference.

Hyper grace is a dangerous theology.
No

what they believe is I do not need to confess or repent in order to keep my salvation just as I believe you also believe

they believe in confessing their sin not only to God but each other, just like I do

as for repenting of sin, how can I repent of something I already agreed with as sin?
to say a believer must repent of a sin they already acknowledge is sin is prety much religious rhetoric legalism

you confess that sin to God and your disciples, to bring about healing, you can not repent of it, because you never changed your mind that it was not a sin, you always knew it, you just fell to temptation

I agree with them on that matter
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
6,407
423
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#55
No

what they believe is I do not need to confess or repent in order to keep my salvation just as I believe you also believe

they believe in confessing their sin not only to God but each other, just like I do

as for repenting of sin, how can I repent of something I already agreed with as sin?
to say a believer must repent of a sin they already acknowledge is sin is prety much religious rhetoric legalism

you confess that sin to God and your disciples, to bring about healing, you can not repent of it, because you never changed your mind that it was not a sin, you always knew it, you just fell to temptation

I agree with them on that matter


Personally I'll stick with confession and repentance.My sins grieve me, I know they are always before me, and the more I grow the more I see them. Sin is real and should cause real remorse. The idea of grieving over your sins is anathema to hyper gracers.

There's things like displeasing the Father and of course feeling his displeasure...Hyper gracers deny this aswell. There's no balance in their theology.

Balance is needed. On the one side we have legalism and on the other side we have Antinomianism.. When we skirt with either one of these it is dangerous. Balance is needed not over balance to one side.

Just as a side note repentance isn't just about changing your mind. This is also where hyper grace gets it wrong. Repentance includes a sense of remorse, regret. But we Know we have a Father who forgives us and loves us.


“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them" Luke 17:3


I'll carry on repenting.. (and you know I'm definitely not a legalist).

Anyhow this thread should be closed!
 

Edify

Active member
Jan 27, 2021
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#56
Just as a side note repentance isn't just about changing your mind. This is also where hyper grace gets it wrong. Repentance includes a sense of remorse, regret. But we Know we have a Father who forgives us and loves us.
This is true. I've seen hypergrace sites on the internet that that says repentance is simply a change of mind.
 
Mar 14, 2011
72,944
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#57
Personally I'll stick with confession and repentance.My sins grieve me, I know they are always before me, and the more I grow the more I see them. Sin is real and should cause real remorse. The idea of grieving over your sins is anathema to hyper gracers.
show me where they do not grieve?

and them explain to me how you know lieing is a sin, then lie, how you can repent of that sin when you already knew it was a sin

repent does not mean remorse, that’s a religious defenition

people who do not feel bad about sin in my view have never met god, not only is it poison to us, we have the chastening of the spirit to deal with also

There's things like displeasing the Father and of course feeling his displeasure...Hyper gracers deny this aswell. There's no balance in their theology.

Balance is needed. On the one side we have legalism and on the other side we have Antinomianism.. When we skirt with either one of these it is dangerous. Balance is needed not over balance to one side.

Just as a side note repentance isn't just about changing your mind. This is also where hyper grace gets it wrong. Repentance includes a sense of remorse, regret. But we Know we have a Father who forgives us and loves us.


“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them" Luke 17:3
if your brother sins again you, and then they change their mind, forgive them

that’s not the same as sin ing against God.

brother I love ya, but I refuse to allow people to lie about you based on what they heard people say about your faith

I will not let people slander another group of people based on things that have heard from others and not from the truth of what they believe,

the fact is your view of repentance and their view are two different things, you can not use your defenition when you go to argue against them, because what they think repentance mean does not come close to yours, it’s arguing apples and oranges, it’s like arguing 1 + 1 = 2 and saying they who believe 1 + 1 = 1 are in error and going at them with all you have

1 + 1 binary math equals 1. That is their argument, you are using base 10 math which says 1 + 1 = 2

if you sit and fight with each other in the end you both lose because you will not humble yourself to,find out the context of the answers,

I understand your view, I disagree with your interpretation but in your view agree with the final outcome

i also agree with their outcome based on their defenition of the word, which I share,
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#58
This is true. I've seen hypergrace sites on the internet that that says repentance is simply a change of mind.
That is literally what it means

when we repent and come to faith. We have repented in our thinking from being enemies of God and having no faith in him to trusting I what he says about us and his love.

it’s not feeling sorry for sins.
 

Edify

Active member
Jan 27, 2021
197
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#59
What gets me is folks will say no one in the hypergrace movement believes they think they can live licentiously, yet here we are in the Falling Away, & those falling away are living licentiously in false doctrine.
The Bible says we're in the Falling Away, but who in the Hypergrace Movement can you get to believe that?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#60
if your brother sins again you, and then they change their mind, forgive them

that’s not the same as sin ing against God.

[I think you misread the text. It says repent. This includes remorse not just a change of mind]


All sin is ultimately sinning against God. David sinned with Bathsheba... but what did David say:

Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight;

so you are right in your verdict
and justified when you judge.



He is not downplaying his sin against Batsheba etc, but that ultimately all sin is against God. When we sin we grieve God.