"I ask then why do people say Israel must go through the Tribulation?" Jeremiah 30.6. paraphrased.

[Nehemiah6]

I believe the Lord's Day refers to the first day of the week.

That is correct. It should not be confused with the Day of the LORD (Lord) which is a period of severe divine judgments.

 

[Inquisitor]

There will be no "secular nation" after the Second Coming of Christ. To get answers to your questions kindly read and study the prophecy of Ezekiel. In view of what we know about the New Covenant, it seems like an anomaly. But the New Covenant itself is embedded in this book. Obviously we do not have the full picture, but there is no question that there will be a fourth temple in Jerusalem, but it will not be desecrated ever again. This temple will in fact have God within.

The western nation of Israel will never adopt the law of Moses again. So I cannot see a literal fulfillment of a fourth temple. Chapter 11 must be symbolic but don't ask me to explain it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The western nation of Israel will never adopt the law of Moses again. So I cannot see a literal fulfillment of a fourth temple.

You are actually questioning the wisdom of God and Christ. In fact you are telling us that you do not believe them. Obviously you did not bother to carefully and seriously study and comprehend the prophecy of Ezekiel.

 

[selahsays]

I appreciate that bit of insight but I'm not sure the Day of the Lord and the Lord's day are the same. I believe the Lord's Day refers to the first day of the week.

Would you mind providing any scriptures that refer to the first day of the week as “the Lord’s day”? I think this is just what we in America say to refer to Sunday. ….but, hey, we all have our own personal beliefs about this.

 

[Evmur]

I'm not this well up on this topic but is the desecration befor the rapture

Or after

asbestos I can understand the desecration is when nastypants sits in the temple declaring that he is himself God, I see no valid reason why the response from the Lord will not be instantaneous as in the case of Herod who allowed himself to be honoured as God.

I see that the Lord will descend from heaven with a shout and Antichrist will be immediately destroyed, the destruction will also come upon the armies of the nations which have come up against Israel to invade. So as I understand the Rapture is immediately before this and the gathering of the Jews to Jerusalem, as eagles to where the carrion is.

For 7 years the Jews will be burying that mighty army.

I understand the book of Revelations to be that 7 years, the whole book is in 7s, it is 7 years of wrath against all who have the mark of the beast. It is a mopping up exercise as described in Ezekiel 38-39

It culminates in the 1,000 year reign which is the Messianic age of peace and prosperity. The glorious age.

I know that all looks simplistic.

 

[posthuman]

Micah 7:15-16
"As in the days when you came out of Egypt, I will show them my wonders."
Nations will see and be ashamed, deprived of all their power. They will put their hands over their mouths and their ears will become deaf.


has this happened to Israel yet?

 

[posthuman]

Would you mind providing any scriptures that refer to the first day of the week as “the Lord’s day”? I think this is just what we in America say to refer to Sunday. ….but, hey, we all have our own personal beliefs about this.

Mark 16:9
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had driven seven demons.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread.

"We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead"
- epistle of Barnabas, ~ 100AD

 

[selahsays]

Mark 16:9
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had driven seven demons.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread.

"We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead"
- epistle of Barnabas, ~ 100AD

Great scripts! They confirm my point.

I was asking for scriptures that use “The Lord’s Day” to refer to the first day of the week. I think most of us do agree that the phrase “The Day of the Lord“ refers to the Second Coming/Millennium.

 

[Mem]

Micah 7:15-16
"As in the days when you came out of Egypt, I will show them my wonders."
Nations will see and be ashamed, deprived of all their power. They will put their hands over their mouths and their ears will become deaf.


has this happened to Israel yet?

I understand the generally accepted interpretation of the times of distinctions between Israel and the Church are going by a supposed timeframe of 'the times of the Gentiles' but, according to Luke 21, regarding the destruction of Jerusalem, it seems to me that v. 24, "They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations. And Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." has happened and so "the day of the Gentiles are indeed fulfilled. For me, the question that would correctly provide insight into the time distinctions is, "Are 'the Gentiles,' there, referring to the time of the Church or is it of a more generally designation such as 'the heathen nations'?"

 

[cv5]

Chapter 11 must be symbolic but don't ask me to explain it.

Frankly, this is a refreshing admission and commonly the case with the "kick Israel to the curb" crowd.

 

[cv5]

I understand the generally accepted interpretation of the times of distinctions between Israel and the Church are going by a supposed timeframe of 'the times of the Gentiles' but, according to Luke 21, regarding the destruction of Jerusalem, it seems to me that v. 24, "They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations. And Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." has happened and so "the day of the Gentiles are indeed fulfilled. For me, the question that would correctly provide insight into the time distinctions is, "Are 'the Gentiles,' there, referring to the time of the Church or is it of a more generally designation such as 'the heathen nations'?"

Take a look out of your window. Have the times of the gentiles ended? No.

The specific term "times of the gentiles" refers to the poly-metal image of Dan 2.
The final destruction of the gentile kingdoms (end time kingdoms.......10 toes = 10 horns = 10 kings = 10 kingdoms) only occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus in glory and CONQUEST (just as Joshua ***in type*** did to Canaan) to do war against them, defeat them, AND SAVE THE PEOPLE HE FOREKNEW.......ISRAEL.

This in fulfillment of COUNTLESS prophecies (including those by Moses), critical covenants, boilerplate promises, and the statements of Jesus Himself. Statements such as these:

Luke 13:35
“See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’

Matt 23:39
“for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’

So who is the "you"/"your HOUSE"? It is the HOUSE of Jacob, the nation ISRAEL.

 

[cv5]

Mark 16:9
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had driven seven demons.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread.

"We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead"
- epistle of Barnabas, ~ 100AD

Feast of Firstfruits, 17th Nisan......the new beginning. Same day that the Ark "rested". Same day that the people of Israel crossed over the Gulf of Aqaba.

Gen 8:4
And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Exo 12:2
This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

 

[Cameron143]

Would you mind providing any scriptures that refer to the first day of the week as “the Lord’s day”? I think this is just what we in America say to refer to Sunday. ….but, hey, we all have our own personal beliefs about this.

It's an interesting understanding and there is only 1 reference in Revelation 1:10. Why do you suppose God would use 2 different terms for the same time. God who is said not to confuse would seem to be confusing.

 

[cv5]

Mark 16:9
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had driven seven demons.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread.

"We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead"
- epistle of Barnabas, ~ 100AD

Interestingly, the children of Israel crossed over the Jordan on the 10th Nisan (in obedience) to "receive" their promised land. The same day that the Lord presented Himself to the Nation Israel so that they would have the opportunity to "receive" Him and His blessed Kingdom.

 

[cv5]

This is probably the most extremist interpretation I have ever read.

Let me cut to the chase here:
I figure that any supposed "Christianity" that tears up, denies, ignores, condemns, mocks and willingly violates the massive quantities of Scripture (more than 2/3 on the face of it, but really all of it when you actually understand that the Bible is an indivisible whole)
that IN ACTUAL TRUTH declares:

-the rapture of the Church
-then the 70th week tribulation
-then the Coming in glory and conquest
-then the salvation, redemption and restitution of Israel
-then the establishment of the real palpable, visible millennial Kingdom of Jesus' reign on the earth......

....must be a fraud.

 

[cv5]

You who???????? UNTIL when????????

Luk 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Act 3:21
“whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Luk 21:24
“And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Luk 22:16
“for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”

Mar 14:25
Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Eze 36:22
Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
Eze 36:23
And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
Eze 36:24
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Eze 36:25
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Eze 36:28
And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Isa 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isa 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Eze 20:33
As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
Eze 20:34
And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

Isa 27:12
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.
Isa 27:13
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

Hos 5:14
For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
Hos 5:15
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hos 6:1
Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
Hos 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

 

[cv5]

And I can confidently predict that NONE of the "kick Israel to the curb" crowd will respond/reply to my last few (voluminous) postings with anything even close to a cogent Scriptural rebuttal. Maybe a shrill outright denial or two. But nothing substantially rational or intelligent.

And, as usual, @Cameron143 will carry on asking the same (already answered ad infinitum) questions over and over again ad nauseum.

 

[selahsays]

It's an interesting understanding and there is only 1 reference in Revelation 1:10. Why do you suppose God would use 2 different terms for the same time. God who is said not to confuse would seem to be confusing.

Nah, not confusing at all. And guess what? Sometimes, the Day of the Lord is even referred to as simply “That Day.”

Now here’s a thought to ponder…. Do Sundays (the first day of the week) sneak up on you like a thief in the night? Nope.

 

[GaryA]

You say that the Trib, SC and rapture were all accomplished in the 1st century. Right?

No.

The Second Coming of Christ and rapture of the saints are future. I have never in my life believed or said otherwise.

What I have said - that you disagree with - is that [the] 'great tribulation' (as defined/described/indicated/stated by Jesus in Matthew 24) started circa 70 A.D. and will end at some point in our future.

And, I say this because - according to Bible prophecy - matching it to historical events - the start of it has clearly occurred (indicated in Matthew 24:21) while the end of it has clearly not occurred (indicated in Matthew 24:29).

You are an historicist right?

That seems to be the 'label' applied to the eschatology that most closely aligns with what I believe. Some prophecy is fulfilled. Some is not. And, it has been [being] fulfilled over the past ~2000 years.

I recently said this in a different thread:

Bible prophecy has been "unfolding" over the last ~2000 years.

Bible prophecy is not a bunch of stuff shoved into a closet and waiting for the day that the door will be opened and everything fall out suddenly - it does not work that way.

We are not waiting for a day when all End Times prophecy will be fulfilled in a short period of time - it has been on-going for ~2000 years.

To me, this is the 'historicist' view of End Times prophecy.

 

[cv5]

No.

Really? Regardless of your views, I shall respond by saying that my SCRIPTURAL references set forth trump your OPINIONS.