I have some questions

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
4,493
1,086
113
The scientific community has concluded that matter must come from matter and since G-d had no matter to begin with He would be challenged to create from nothing.

What they miss is............we are speaking of G-d. He doesn't have to have matter to make matter. Further, under their theory evolution would need matter to create...oh ....pardon.....evolve (LOL) greater matter.

Maybe they will get the message soon.
Amen to that saint.....by the way did you ever see this....

In the beginning (time).......God created the heavens (space).......and the earth ( matter).

So there you have it the main ingredients of creation.....ok class dismissed.😄😄😄😄
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,204
13,508
113
you can say there is no contradictions but clearly you didnt bother to respond to the contradictions i mentioned above. finally lets say im an agnostic i dont know if God exists. I said it previously im not asking for absolute undeniable proof for Gods existence i want my faith to be reasonable
Agnostics not only claim not to know, but extend that by saying it is not possible for anyone to know. That is not being reasonable. God invites us to reason with Him, but your heart has to be in the right place, meaning, you approach God with humility and respect. He promises to reveal Himself to those who seek diligently and sincerely. Do you pray?
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,463
113
Anaheim, Cali.
The Bible is not a science book. Nor was it written for scientists. I takes more than 8th grade reading skills and near 100% comprehension and the gifts of knowledge, wisdom and discernment to understand. At wide angle its easy to miss the details. If we zoom into a close tight focus we loose the panorama. It must be examined repeatedly from different perspectives to get the full effect.

The order of operations' of the overall creation has been confirmed by science. Only the time line seems askew to me. So let's examine that first.

If God created creation in 6 days and rested on the 7th that's 144 hours + 24 for 7 sunrises + 1 twilight before the 8th dawn... But wait God wasn't dictating to men with clocks and calendars' so he had to start with some terms they could grasp.

Definition of Occam's razor:
A scientific and philosophical rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities. (Merriam-Webster)

A) 40 billion or so years ago and indescribably huge implosion occurred, for an unknown reason It scattering bits and pieces of the still unknown universes farther than we can comprehend setting galaxies and evolution into motion resulting in what we can barely understand today. Or?

B) In the beginning God created the heavens' and the earth?

Which sounds more far fetched? Which sounds more likely? I bet my soul on 'B' to be correct!
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
8,066
2,182
113
Bottom line.
There is no such thing as atheism.
Only rebellion in man trying to ease the forces tormenting their minds.

The walking dead using false logic to shake their fist at the one they really know is out there somewhere.

Time to come home friend.
You father loves you.
Open the door,you will see he has sent his son to get you.

Holy Spirit slice through every road block and demon power and lead this man to open the door.
Send your most powerful women to him to witness to him.
Women like magenta.
Bring him in Holy Ghost!!!!!
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
8,066
2,182
113
@2;50
" when i get to heaven i know my robe will fit me well,i tried it on at the gates of hell"

 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
Definition of Occam's razor:
A scientific and philosophical rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities. (Merriam-Webster)

A) 40 billion or so years ago and indescribably huge implosion occurred, for an unknown reason It scattering bits and pieces of the still unknown universes farther than we can comprehend setting galaxies and evolution into motion resulting in what we can barely understand today. Or?

B) In the beginning God created the heavens' and the earth?

Which sounds more far fetched? Which sounds more likely? I bet my soul on 'B' to be correct!


The actual purpose for Occam's razor is : if you have a problem with several possible solutions (hypothesis), choose the solution (hypothesis) that has the fewest assumptions.


But here is a question for you:

We know, "In the Beginning God created the heaven(s) and the Earth."

But WE ACTUALLY do not know how God created either the HEAVENS or the EARTH. We know the Spirit of God is hovering over an earth covered in water. And then "Let there be Light" followed afterwards.

But as far as the other planets, the stars, the galaxies, the moons, the plasma, the dark matter, all food to feed the continually consuming stars of gas more like a nuclear reactor.

As far as the endless space, everything following the laws of physics, down to simple neutrons, all of it we do not even have the first clue to how God actually created any of it.

When God finally spoke, His voice could have been so resounding it sent off a vibration that had a cause and effect, that might have sounded like the ultimate "Bang!!" We don't actually know how close science is to describing how the universe happened. Science could be closer than we believe.

Now, I am not of the young world group, but I am not of the billion year group as well. I do believe that the universe coming into formation with all we know about it from science, and we know how vast and endless it is always growing and expanding. We know planets, stars, moons, the laws involved biggest object, dark matter, gases, plasma.

I have no issue believing hundred thousand years several times over, but from the Bible "In the Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth," technically, that part could have been from a Big Bang created or designed by God. No One knows one way or another!!

As far as life on the planet, obviously evolution is incorrect. But how the Earth and rest of universe got here, science could be correct!!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,343
4,660
113
If there was a big bang God created it. I don't care how. He said so. That's good enough for me.

The big bang, big boom, and /or expanding universe theory has an interesting premise that the universeis expanding all at the same rate fro that center of the first so-called big bang, and once it reaches its optimum, then, it is to implode upon itself with a bang.

Isn't it odd how God tells us in the Epistles that the creation itself will pass away with a loud noise and all the elements will be dissolved.
Now with our Fathe we now when all b and that it was spoken into existence. With scieence we are told they do not know where that beginning is or how it came into being……...we are suposed to just believe the scientists who are at a loss to explain further.

I am proud (of my Father) to say He has not left any of us in the dark.
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
If there was a big bang God created it. I don't care how. He said so. That's good enough for me.


Yes, Agreed!!

But, the Bible does not give any clue to how the universe or earth was made. I have always stated, it's possible that science does fill in the gaps where the Bible is void of information. And science has helped mankind and has helped daily life in general. It's not like science is our enemy. Those within science might be our enemy, but science as an institution, devoted to discovering the Truth, is our friend.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
I don't see a conflict with the big bang theory and G-d's creation. Maybe He used a big bang approach to His creations. We don't know and it doesn't matter. Fact remains...He created all.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
Information is just a concept humans have created using our brains like color to percieve the world. you seem to suggest that because DNA and life is so complex how could it happen by random. Well i think it could and i dont see any reason to suggest why you need to say its not random that it needs a creator why do u need to give that purpose the sharp stone is just sharp its not ment to be use as a scratcher. Im not suprised of the complexity of the universe because if it werent we wouldnt be hear.
Even scientists who are atheists know that information does not come into existence by sheer randomness.
In addition to the billions of bits of information that a single DNA strand has, there is also something referred to as irreducible viability/irreducible complexity.
In a single bacterium that are numerous working parts that keep the organism viable.
Remove any one of these working parts and the organism ceases to exist.
For the first bacterium to have come into existence, all the working parts would had to have been present.
There is no way for all of these working parts to have evolved simultaneously to make the first bacterium.
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
The big bang, big boom, and /or expanding universe theory has an interesting premise that the universeis expanding all at the same rate fro that center of the first so-called big bang, and once it reaches its optimum, then, it is to implode upon itself with a bang.

Isn't it odd how God tells us in the Epistles that the creation itself will pass away with a loud noise and all the elements will be dissolved.
Now with our Fathe we now when all b and that it was spoken into existence. With scieence we are told they do not know where that beginning is or how it came into being……...we are suposed to just believe the scientists who are at a loss to explain further.

I am proud (of my Father) to say He has not left any of us in the dark.



No, but I do enjoy when I am able to combine science with the Word of God and see the 2 matching. Science began with the purpose of discovering God. To me, it was another Tower of Babel situation. The more science shoved money into, and the more scientists tried to create theories, the more they failed and many became atheist. The institution of science became a harboring ward for those who had no belief in God since they were unable to discover Him.

On the other hand, since many within science tried to use science to disprove God (since they could not discover God), they have ultimately proven God in more ways imaginable. Each new discovery just opens my eyes to how Amazing, Creative, and Visual God is!! I have learned that science is a useful tool. Like any tool, not 1 tool is designed to fix all problems. And science for me, is just one of the tools I use.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,343
4,660
113
We have faith in things not seen. We believe. We are not going to ever be given the rank to approach our Father as all-knowing as He is.

To seriously mix science of this age with the Creator of it's mind is, frankly, worrisome.
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
We have faith in things not seen. We believe. We are not going to ever be given the rank to approach our Father as all-knowing as He is.

To seriously mix science of this age with the Creator of it's mind is, frankly, worrisome.




My science goes back to the days when science and mathematics were 2 separate idealism and institutions. It was Galileo, who taunted scientific method for being just opinion only, since they did not use mathematics as their scientific proof then. Later, science adopted mathematics and today we still use mathematics. But Galileo is where I go back to when I imagine science and mathematics. Today's science is as random as those suffering from Asperger and autism, which many who suffer from those 2 specific psychological disorders, are who now classify as scientists. So, emotional less robots who don't have a clue about being a human at all.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
7,962
4,628
113
The scientific community has concluded that matter must come from matter and since G-d had no matter to begin with He would be challenged to create from nothing.

What they miss is............we are speaking of G-d. He doesn't have to have matter to make matter. Further, under their theory evolution would need matter to create...oh ....pardon.....evolve (LOL) greater matter.

Maybe they will get the message soon.
Creation ex nihilo could be easily described as the reciprocating convergent and divergent precessional centripetal and centrifugal force and motion/inertia and acceleration torus/hyperbaloid radiating from the dielectric event horizon null plane or point beyond which lies the counterspace dimension.

Nobody knows for sure......
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,463
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Creation ex nihilo could be easily described as the reciprocating convergent and divergent precessional centripetal and centrifugal force and motion/inertia and acceleration torus/hyperbaloid radiating from the dielectric event horizon null plane or point beyond which lies the counterspace dimension.

Nobody knows for sure......
Is that anything like hyper bloviation?
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
The scientific community has concluded that matter must come from matter and since G-d had no matter to begin with He would be challenged to create from nothing.

What they miss is............we are speaking of G-d. He doesn't have to have matter to make matter. Further, under their theory evolution would need matter to create...oh ....pardon.....evolve (LOL) greater matter.

Maybe they will get the message soon.



A neutron that is an actual nucleus. Something as small as dropping a single drop of color in a 5 gallon bucket of white paint. But this scale is trillions times smaller or more. But it split of itself, and from there grew. And at that time the universe was smaller so this matter filled all of space up. Then heat gelled this nucleus into a solid which led to a freezing that eventually the Bang caused complete annihilation of. The blast broke the barrier keeping the space the original size. Ever since then, in theory by counting red dots, we have concluded the rate of expansion means space is now endless. So space went from contained to endless by the explanation of science.


I don't completely agree here obviously, but I do see God being a chemist using mathematics and formulas and when Spoken into action could been as equally to what science wants us to imagine. They are only guessing themselves. And God does not actually tell us how He did it. And the way He does explain some in Job seems irrational. Not from God's point of view, but from how man has interpreted it. From a flat earth held together by ropes and poles to the many other ways they misinterpreted scripture.

Perfect example:
Make a poster of the earth in a circle, held by poles, ropes, and make it a biblical theme = circular logic
^that is how we use to think the earth looked like because we never thought beyond earth to even the sun LOL

is the same

Mark of the Beast = from Revelation we think actual Beast and stamp/etc.

but today's tech tells us we can implant RFID Chips and have all that info + tracing device.


From biblical terms we have this idea, but when it actually takes place, it looks nothing like what we imagined when we read about it.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
7,962
4,628
113
The scientific community has concluded that matter must come from matter and since G-d had no matter to begin with He would be challenged to create from nothing.

What they miss is............we are speaking of G-d. He doesn't have to have matter to make matter. Further, under their theory evolution would need matter to create...oh ....pardon.....evolve (LOL) greater matter.

Maybe they will get the message soon.
"The scientific community has concluded that matter must come from matter"

Absolutely incorrect. And unscriptural. There is no "matter" per se. See Ken Wheeler's experiments on wave/particle "duality". Matter is nothing less than electromagnetic condensates of a sort.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,343
4,660
113
Creation ex nihilo could be easily described as the reciprocating convergent and divergent precessional centripetal and centrifugal force and motion/inertia and acceleration torus/hyperbaloid radiating from the dielectric event horizon null plane or point beyond which lies the counterspace dimension.

Nobody knows for sure......

kKRight! I think you should talk your thinking over with the Father. Do you think He will be impressed?

If you are being satirical, you won...