I want to understand the Catholic faith so....
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Who did Jesus give the Key of the Kingdom to? Himself? You are so anti-Catholic you can't see or read straight.
You should do some reading on the structure of the Davidic Kingdom, All that I posted is scripturally and historically sound, your comments are irrational and psychotic. Maybe you just hate Jews as well as Catholics.
Tell your doctor how you feel about the Catholic church, he has medications that can help you.
Matthew 18:1
[SUP]1 [/SUP] At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
Matthew 18:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
All the Disciples were with Jesus when He said this, not just Peter like the Evil Catholics want us to believe.
Jesus DID give the Keys and the bound and loose to ALL the Disciples, not just to Peter epostle.
Its amazing how evil the Catholics are by teaching the lies of the Catholic Church as Truths from God.
I would tell all you Catholics to repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior but i do know for a fact that this is falling on deaf ears. No Catholic i have ever spoken to wants God as their Savior. All they want is Mary as their God.
[SUP]1 [/SUP] At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
Matthew 18:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
All the Disciples were with Jesus when He said this, not just Peter like the Evil Catholics want us to believe.
Jesus DID give the Keys and the bound and loose to ALL the Disciples, not just to Peter epostle.
Its amazing how evil the Catholics are by teaching the lies of the Catholic Church as Truths from God.
I would tell all you Catholics to repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior but i do know for a fact that this is falling on deaf ears. No Catholic i have ever spoken to wants God as their Savior. All they want is Mary as their God.
I posted 75+ proof text verses highlighting Peter's primacy, it was a wall hard to miss, but you ignored it. post #1234 Re-posting it won't do any good because you are blind. Now you want to argue about Peter being in Rome because to dispute Peter's leadership requires an enormous amount of scriptural contortions, or sheer blindness. Guess what, valiant, it doesn't matter where Peter was, he was Prince of the Apostles. His role is defined by divine appointment, not by location, and not by funnymentalist cults founded 10-20 years ago, spreading hate propaganda.
You hate knowledge, you hate historical facts, twist and distort the structure of the Davidic Kingdom to force fit it into your teenie weenie paradigm, re-write scripture: (Jesus kept the keys of the kingdom to himself, duh), and deny the 75 proof texts of Peter's primacy. Here are some extra-biblical historical citations that some might read; I know you are incapable of learning anything. That's what blind prejudice does to a person. Every church has some kind of confession of faith or mission statement, but you have none. Just your own private little deified opinions, making uneducated infallible dogmatic declarations about Catholicism based on ignorance and bigotry. You are your own pope in a church of one.
- See more at: Library : Was Peter the First Pope? | Catholic Culture
Here is the evidence you have that Peter was not bishop of Rome and not head of the universal Church:
You hate knowledge, you hate historical facts, twist and distort the structure of the Davidic Kingdom to force fit it into your teenie weenie paradigm, re-write scripture: (Jesus kept the keys of the kingdom to himself, duh), and deny the 75 proof texts of Peter's primacy. Here are some extra-biblical historical citations that some might read; I know you are incapable of learning anything. That's what blind prejudice does to a person. Every church has some kind of confession of faith or mission statement, but you have none. Just your own private little deified opinions, making uneducated infallible dogmatic declarations about Catholicism based on ignorance and bigotry. You are your own pope in a church of one.
Lactantius, The Deaths of the Persecutors 2:5, AD 318, "When Nero was already reigning, Peter came to Rome, where, in virtue of the performance of certain miracles which he worked . . . he converted many to righteousness and established a firm and steadfast temple to God. When this fact was reported to Nero . . . he sprang to the task of tearing down the heavenly temple and of destroying righteousness. It was he that first persecuted the servants of God. Peter he fixed to a cross, and Paul he slew."
Bishop Peter of Alexandria, Penance, Canon 9, AD 306, "Peter, the first chosen of the apostles, having been apprehended often and thrown into prison and treated with ignominy, at last was crucified in Rome."
Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea, The Chronicle, AD 303, "[In the second] year of the two hundredth and fifth Olympiad [AD 42]: The Apostle Peter, after he has established the church in Antioch, is sent to Rome, where he remains as a bishop of that city, preaching the gospel for twenty-five years."
The Poem Against the Marcionites, AD 267, "In this chair in which he himself had sat, Peter in mighty Rome commanded Linus, the first elected, to sit down."
St. Cyprian, Epistle 52, A. D. 251, described Rome as "The place of Peter."
Orien, Third Commentary on Genesis, AD 232, quoted by Bishop Eusebius in Church History, "Peter…at last, having come to Rome, he was crucified head-downwards; for he had requested that he might suffer this way."
The Little Labyrinth, AD 211, quoted by Bishop Eusebius in Church History 5:28:3, "Victor . . . was the thirteenth bishop of Rome from Peter."
Tertullian, Against Marcion 4, 5:1, AD 210, "Let us see what milk the Corinthians drained from Paul; against what standard the Galatians were measured for correction; what the Philippians, Thessalonians, and Ephesians read; what even the nearby Romans sound forth, to whom both Peter and Paul bequeathed the gospel and even sealed it with their blood."
Tertullian, Demurrer Against the Heretics 36 and 32:2, AD 200, "But if you are near Italy, you have Rome, where authority is at hand for us too. What a happy church that is, on which the apostles poured out their whole doctrine with their blood; where Peter had a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned with the death of John [the Baptist, by being beheaded]…[T]his is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrneans , which records that Polycarp was placed there by John, like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter."
Clement of Alexandria, Sketches, AD 200, quoted by Bishop Eusebius in Church History 6, 14:1, "The circumstances which occasioned . . . [the writing] of Mark were these: When Peter preached the Word publicly at Rome and declared the gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had been a long time his follower and who remembered his sayings; should write down what had been proclaimed."
Caius, Disputation with Proclus, AD 198, quoted by Bishop Eusebius in Church History 2:25:5, "It is recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and Peter, likewise, was crucified, during the reign [of the Emperor Nero]. The account is confirmed by the names of Peter and Paul over the cemeteries there, which remain to the present time. And it is confirmed also by a stalwart man of the Church, Caius by name, who lived in the time of Zephyrinus, Bishop of Rome. This Caius, in a written disputation with Proclus, the leader of the sect of Cataphrygians, says this of the places in which the remains of the aforementioned apostles were deposited: ‘I can point out the trophies of the apostles. For if you are willing to go to the Vatican or to the Ostian Way, you will find the trophies of those who founded this Church’."
St. Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, Against Heresies 3:3:1, 3:3:2, and 3:3:3, AD 189, "Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church.
"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition.
"The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the letter to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus, and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was chosen for the episcopate. He had seen the blessed apostles and was acquainted with them. It might be said that he still heard the echoes of the preaching of the apostles and had their traditions before his eyes. And not only he, for there were many still remaining who had been instructed by the apostles. In the time of Clement, no small dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the Church in Rome sent a very strong letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace and renewing their faith . . . To this Clement, Evaristus succeeded . . . and now, in the twelfth place after the apostles, the lot of the episcopate [of Rome] has fallen to Eleutherus. In this order, and by the teaching of the apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us."
St. Dionysius, Bishop of Corinth, Letter to Pope Soter, AD 170, quoted by Bishop Eusebius in Church History 2:25:8, "You have also, by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planted in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martyrdom at the same time."
St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, while being brought to Rome for martyrdom, wrote Letter to the Romans 4:3, AD 110, "I issue you no commands, like Peter and Paul: they were Apostles, while I am but a captive."
Pope Clement (fourth Bishop of Rome), First Epistle to the Corinthians, Chapter 5, AD 96, "But not to dwell upon ancient examples, let us come to the most recent spiritual heroes. Let us take the noble examples furnished in our own generation. Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours, and when he had finally suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him. Owing to envy, Paul also obtained the reward of patient endurance, after being seven times thrown into captivity, compelled to flee, and stoned. After preaching both in the east and west, he gained the illustrious reputation due to his faith, having taught righteousness to the whole world, and come to the extreme limit of the west, and suffered martyrdom under the prefects. Thus was he removed from the world, and went into the holy place, having proved himself a striking example of patience."
There are more historical records to show that St. Peter was Bishop of Rome until he was martyred about 67.Bishop Peter of Alexandria, Penance, Canon 9, AD 306, "Peter, the first chosen of the apostles, having been apprehended often and thrown into prison and treated with ignominy, at last was crucified in Rome."
Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea, The Chronicle, AD 303, "[In the second] year of the two hundredth and fifth Olympiad [AD 42]: The Apostle Peter, after he has established the church in Antioch, is sent to Rome, where he remains as a bishop of that city, preaching the gospel for twenty-five years."
The Poem Against the Marcionites, AD 267, "In this chair in which he himself had sat, Peter in mighty Rome commanded Linus, the first elected, to sit down."
St. Cyprian, Epistle 52, A. D. 251, described Rome as "The place of Peter."
Orien, Third Commentary on Genesis, AD 232, quoted by Bishop Eusebius in Church History, "Peter…at last, having come to Rome, he was crucified head-downwards; for he had requested that he might suffer this way."
The Little Labyrinth, AD 211, quoted by Bishop Eusebius in Church History 5:28:3, "Victor . . . was the thirteenth bishop of Rome from Peter."
Tertullian, Against Marcion 4, 5:1, AD 210, "Let us see what milk the Corinthians drained from Paul; against what standard the Galatians were measured for correction; what the Philippians, Thessalonians, and Ephesians read; what even the nearby Romans sound forth, to whom both Peter and Paul bequeathed the gospel and even sealed it with their blood."
Tertullian, Demurrer Against the Heretics 36 and 32:2, AD 200, "But if you are near Italy, you have Rome, where authority is at hand for us too. What a happy church that is, on which the apostles poured out their whole doctrine with their blood; where Peter had a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned with the death of John [the Baptist, by being beheaded]…[T]his is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrneans , which records that Polycarp was placed there by John, like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter."
Clement of Alexandria, Sketches, AD 200, quoted by Bishop Eusebius in Church History 6, 14:1, "The circumstances which occasioned . . . [the writing] of Mark were these: When Peter preached the Word publicly at Rome and declared the gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had been a long time his follower and who remembered his sayings; should write down what had been proclaimed."
Caius, Disputation with Proclus, AD 198, quoted by Bishop Eusebius in Church History 2:25:5, "It is recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and Peter, likewise, was crucified, during the reign [of the Emperor Nero]. The account is confirmed by the names of Peter and Paul over the cemeteries there, which remain to the present time. And it is confirmed also by a stalwart man of the Church, Caius by name, who lived in the time of Zephyrinus, Bishop of Rome. This Caius, in a written disputation with Proclus, the leader of the sect of Cataphrygians, says this of the places in which the remains of the aforementioned apostles were deposited: ‘I can point out the trophies of the apostles. For if you are willing to go to the Vatican or to the Ostian Way, you will find the trophies of those who founded this Church’."
St. Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, Against Heresies 3:3:1, 3:3:2, and 3:3:3, AD 189, "Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church.
"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition.
"The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the letter to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus, and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was chosen for the episcopate. He had seen the blessed apostles and was acquainted with them. It might be said that he still heard the echoes of the preaching of the apostles and had their traditions before his eyes. And not only he, for there were many still remaining who had been instructed by the apostles. In the time of Clement, no small dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the Church in Rome sent a very strong letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace and renewing their faith . . . To this Clement, Evaristus succeeded . . . and now, in the twelfth place after the apostles, the lot of the episcopate [of Rome] has fallen to Eleutherus. In this order, and by the teaching of the apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us."
St. Dionysius, Bishop of Corinth, Letter to Pope Soter, AD 170, quoted by Bishop Eusebius in Church History 2:25:8, "You have also, by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planted in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martyrdom at the same time."
St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, while being brought to Rome for martyrdom, wrote Letter to the Romans 4:3, AD 110, "I issue you no commands, like Peter and Paul: they were Apostles, while I am but a captive."
Pope Clement (fourth Bishop of Rome), First Epistle to the Corinthians, Chapter 5, AD 96, "But not to dwell upon ancient examples, let us come to the most recent spiritual heroes. Let us take the noble examples furnished in our own generation. Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours, and when he had finally suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him. Owing to envy, Paul also obtained the reward of patient endurance, after being seven times thrown into captivity, compelled to flee, and stoned. After preaching both in the east and west, he gained the illustrious reputation due to his faith, having taught righteousness to the whole world, and come to the extreme limit of the west, and suffered martyrdom under the prefects. Thus was he removed from the world, and went into the holy place, having proved himself a striking example of patience."
- See more at: Library : Was Peter the First Pope? | Catholic Culture
Here is the evidence you have that Peter was not bishop of Rome and not head of the universal Church:
Its a waste of time bringing the Gospel of Salvation to the Catholics. Its a waste of time showing the Catholics the Truth in the Scriptures.
Matthew 7:6
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
The dogs and the swines are the Catholics who Worship Mary as their God.
For hundreds of years the Catholics have been deceived by Satan to reject everything from God that they do not like and to accept everything Catholicism says as the absolute Truth.
Again epostle, show us any paper, note, or letter from Peter that says Pope Peter! Your argument that everybody knew Peter was the Pope and therefore Peter did not need to use the term Pope is pure lies.
Everybody today knows Francis is the Pope, but yet Francis uses the term Pope Francis to identify himself as the Pope. Your instance that Peter never needed to say he was a Pope is straight from the pit of Hell.
Will you ever accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior epostle or will you continue to reject God for your god Mary?
Your Eternal Soul at this point in time will never enter into Heaven. Its the Lake of Fire that you will be if you continue to reject Jesus.
Matthew 7:6
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
The dogs and the swines are the Catholics who Worship Mary as their God.
For hundreds of years the Catholics have been deceived by Satan to reject everything from God that they do not like and to accept everything Catholicism says as the absolute Truth.
Again epostle, show us any paper, note, or letter from Peter that says Pope Peter! Your argument that everybody knew Peter was the Pope and therefore Peter did not need to use the term Pope is pure lies.
Everybody today knows Francis is the Pope, but yet Francis uses the term Pope Francis to identify himself as the Pope. Your instance that Peter never needed to say he was a Pope is straight from the pit of Hell.
Will you ever accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior epostle or will you continue to reject God for your god Mary?
Your Eternal Soul at this point in time will never enter into Heaven. Its the Lake of Fire that you will be if you continue to reject Jesus.
Jesus gave Peter the keys of 'the kingly rule of Heaven' and the power to 'bind and loose' (determine true doctrine). In other words he was to bring men under God's kingly rule and teach them what Christ had taught him. He fulfilled this at Pentecost. . The same privilege was given to ALL the Apostles (Matt 18).
what on earth has the failing Davidic kingdom to do with God's kingly rule?. Or do you think David was god? The structure of David's kingdom was the same as that of all surrounding kingdoms. Were they all 'kingly rules of God?'
The structure of David's kingdom FAILED. It had NOTHING at all to say about the Kingly Rule of God. But I am glad you admit that the Papacy is based on a failing earthly system.
But Jesus said. 'MY kingdom IS NOT of this world'. It is wholly different. It knows nothing of earthly systems. This in itself demonstrates that the papacy is false.
yes in depicting how earthly kingdoms control themselves. It has NOTHING to say about the kingly rule of God.
LOL you silly man. All I hate is your lies and your blindness.
yes he recommends ABSTINENCE lol.
what on earth has the failing Davidic kingdom to do with God's kingly rule?. Or do you think David was god? The structure of David's kingdom was the same as that of all surrounding kingdoms. Were they all 'kingly rules of God?'
The structure of David's kingdom FAILED. It had NOTHING at all to say about the Kingly Rule of God. But I am glad you admit that the Papacy is based on a failing earthly system.
But Jesus said. 'MY kingdom IS NOT of this world'. It is wholly different. It knows nothing of earthly systems. This in itself demonstrates that the papacy is false.
yes in depicting how earthly kingdoms control themselves. It has NOTHING to say about the kingly rule of God.
LOL you silly man. All I hate is your lies and your blindness.
yes he recommends ABSTINENCE lol.
The Bible is a Catholic book, the Church knows what it means. it was hijacked and condensed 500 years ago.
Matthew 7:6
Yup, that's what happens when your anti-Catholic myths get exposed and a a herd of pigs show up.
I call this religious sadism, it's a favorite bat for sadists to beat Catholics with in the name of Jesus. Sadism is actually a sexual perversion where pleasure is derived from inflicting pain on others. "Worship Mary as their God" is a sick means of asserting ones religious superiority by inflicting pain on Catholics. This false charge has been refuted 1000 times but it doesn't matter to a sadist.
More sadism. for 1500 years, the Catholic church was the only church in existence. You can't make any claim to absolute truth because you are just one of 40,000 making the same claims, or one of thousands of recently pop-up churches, or one of millions of self appointed authorities. It's like going to a hockey game without referees. Or worse, everybody is a referee.
Isa. 35:8, 54:13-17 - this prophecy refers to the Church as the Holy Way where sons will be taught by God and they will not err. The Church has been given the gift of infallibility when teaching about faith and morals, where her sons are taught directly by God and will not err. This gift of infallibility means that the Church is prevented from teaching error by the power of the Holy Spirit (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)
Acts 9:2; 22:4; 24:14,22 - the early Church is identified as the "Way" prophesied in Isaiah 35:8 where fools will not err therein.
Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 - Jesus tells His apostles it is not they who speak, but the Spirit of their Father speaking through them. If the Spirit is the one speaking and leading the Church, the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.
Matt. 16:19 - for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.
Matt. 18:17-18 - the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.
John 14:26 - Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit would teach the Church (the apostles and successors) all things regarding the faith. This means that the Church can teach us the right moral positions on such things as in vitro fertilization, cloning and other issues that are not addressed in the Bible. After all, these issues of morality are necessary for our salvation, and God would not leave such important issues to be decided by us sinners without His divine assistance.
I'm not going to repeat myself. If you ignored my first answer, you will ignore the second same answer.
What has Pope Francis said that would cause so much derision from you? "Pope" meas "papa" in Italian, which means "father". You couldn't find "father" in the bible if I showed it to you so what's the point?
Jesus is my Lord and Savior and Mary is his mother, a mere human deserving respect as His mother that you refuse to give, insulting Catholics with this false charge of "Mary worship" to meet some sadistic need.
On what grounds do you say that I reject Jesus? Because I don't follow your private little popery or your groupie feel-good fundie cult?? What's the name of your church, Mike?
I notice nobody gives the name of their church in here for fear the Christian Taliban will rip them to shreds. You are not ashamed of your church, are you Mike?
Matthew 7:6
Yup, that's what happens when your anti-Catholic myths get exposed and a a herd of pigs show up.
I call this religious sadism, it's a favorite bat for sadists to beat Catholics with in the name of Jesus. Sadism is actually a sexual perversion where pleasure is derived from inflicting pain on others. "Worship Mary as their God" is a sick means of asserting ones religious superiority by inflicting pain on Catholics. This false charge has been refuted 1000 times but it doesn't matter to a sadist.
More sadism. for 1500 years, the Catholic church was the only church in existence. You can't make any claim to absolute truth because you are just one of 40,000 making the same claims, or one of thousands of recently pop-up churches, or one of millions of self appointed authorities. It's like going to a hockey game without referees. Or worse, everybody is a referee.
Isa. 35:8, 54:13-17 - this prophecy refers to the Church as the Holy Way where sons will be taught by God and they will not err. The Church has been given the gift of infallibility when teaching about faith and morals, where her sons are taught directly by God and will not err. This gift of infallibility means that the Church is prevented from teaching error by the power of the Holy Spirit (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)
Acts 9:2; 22:4; 24:14,22 - the early Church is identified as the "Way" prophesied in Isaiah 35:8 where fools will not err therein.
Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 - Jesus tells His apostles it is not they who speak, but the Spirit of their Father speaking through them. If the Spirit is the one speaking and leading the Church, the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.
Matt. 16:19 - for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.
Matt. 18:17-18 - the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.
John 14:26 - Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit would teach the Church (the apostles and successors) all things regarding the faith. This means that the Church can teach us the right moral positions on such things as in vitro fertilization, cloning and other issues that are not addressed in the Bible. After all, these issues of morality are necessary for our salvation, and God would not leave such important issues to be decided by us sinners without His divine assistance.
I'm not going to repeat myself. If you ignored my first answer, you will ignore the second same answer.
What has Pope Francis said that would cause so much derision from you? "Pope" meas "papa" in Italian, which means "father". You couldn't find "father" in the bible if I showed it to you so what's the point?
Jesus is my Lord and Savior and Mary is his mother, a mere human deserving respect as His mother that you refuse to give, insulting Catholics with this false charge of "Mary worship" to meet some sadistic need.
On what grounds do you say that I reject Jesus? Because I don't follow your private little popery or your groupie feel-good fundie cult?? What's the name of your church, Mike?
I notice nobody gives the name of their church in here for fear the Christian Taliban will rip them to shreds. You are not ashamed of your church, are you Mike?
They said nothing about Peter's primacy. They merely showed how prominent he was because of his personality. Just read through Acts and see how often it says 'the Apostles' as a group. They worked together as one. They did not see Peter as being their leader. It is just one example of the lies your church has to tell. Did Paul see Peter as his leader when he 'rebuked him to his face?'
. You talk such utter rubbish. IF Peter was ever in Rome, and we only have late witnesses who say so, then it was only for a few weeks under Roman arrest. He was never Bishop of Rome. Indeed your church says that he was a bishop in Antioch!! Neither Paul, nor Clement nor Ignatius recognised a sole bishop of Rome.
. LOL he was NOT the prince of the Apostles. He was simply a leading figure among them. The only reason that he got special mention in Matt 16 is because HE was the one who blurted out what they had come to know about Jesus. he roock on which the church was built was the statement that Jesus Christ was 'the Messiah , the Son of the living God'.
Ok show me one Scripture that SAYS that he was the prince of the Apostles. Surely God would not have overlooked telling us that. His role according to you was fixed by you. That role was not fixed by divine appointment. It is purely your surmise.
Why should I do that? The Davidic kingdom was a kingdom of this world. It is irrelevant.
That is a lie. There is not a single Scripture that speaks of Peter's primacy. Jesus gives the keys of the kingly rule of God to ALLL whom He appoints to preach and witness. We all use them when we open the kingly rule of God to people,
words, words, words lol
you are simply again showing that you are a fool. My confession of faith is Romans.
well at least that means that in my church we are all equal before God lol
. You talk such utter rubbish. IF Peter was ever in Rome, and we only have late witnesses who say so, then it was only for a few weeks under Roman arrest. He was never Bishop of Rome. Indeed your church says that he was a bishop in Antioch!! Neither Paul, nor Clement nor Ignatius recognised a sole bishop of Rome.
. LOL he was NOT the prince of the Apostles. He was simply a leading figure among them. The only reason that he got special mention in Matt 16 is because HE was the one who blurted out what they had come to know about Jesus. he roock on which the church was built was the statement that Jesus Christ was 'the Messiah , the Son of the living God'.
Ok show me one Scripture that SAYS that he was the prince of the Apostles. Surely God would not have overlooked telling us that. His role according to you was fixed by you. That role was not fixed by divine appointment. It is purely your surmise.
Why should I do that? The Davidic kingdom was a kingdom of this world. It is irrelevant.
That is a lie. There is not a single Scripture that speaks of Peter's primacy. Jesus gives the keys of the kingly rule of God to ALLL whom He appoints to preach and witness. We all use them when we open the kingly rule of God to people,
words, words, words lol
you are simply again showing that you are a fool. My confession of faith is Romans.
well at least that means that in my church we are all equal before God lol
This was written out of ignorance 300 years after the time of Christ. If it was true why had no one mentioned it before?. After all on your arguments it was extremely important. But in all the previous Mentions of Peter NO ONE had said this.
Not a single reputable historian, apart from Roman Catholic ones, believe it. It is a fantasy.
But thats what I said lol. He MAY have been in Rome for a few weeks at the end of his life. Whether he was crucified or not is another question. No early writer suggests it.
Eusebius was notoriously unreliable. If what he said had been true then Paul would have mentioned Peter in his letter to the Romans. But NO reliable historian accepts Eusebius testimony. Peter was commissioned to go to the Jews, and spent much of his time in Antioch and Babylon.
I won't waste any more time on your so called evidence, much of which is based on forgeries. No reputable writer before 200 AD made such claims
Not a single reputable historian, apart from Roman Catholic ones, believe it. It is a fantasy.
But thats what I said lol. He MAY have been in Rome for a few weeks at the end of his life. Whether he was crucified or not is another question. No early writer suggests it.
Eusebius was notoriously unreliable. If what he said had been true then Paul would have mentioned Peter in his letter to the Romans. But NO reliable historian accepts Eusebius testimony. Peter was commissioned to go to the Jews, and spent much of his time in Antioch and Babylon.
I won't waste any more time on your so called evidence, much of which is based on forgeries. No reputable writer before 200 AD made such claims
No, that is not what binding and loosing means. It's a rabbinical term. Look it up on a Jewish site, you won't take my word for it.
Jesus gave The Keys ONLY to Peter. You are saying Jesus gave out 12 sets of keys, with no scriptural support for your invention.
. It wasn't failing, God transferred authority to keep it from failing. You simply cannot read. You are just being stupid. No, and I never said they were. Keep reversing everything I say and I will put you in my ignorasium where you can play with the Whore-duh-Babble-on psychos.
Chapter and verse please. You are saying that Daniel (2:24) and Jeremiah (33:17) are false prophets.
It demonstrates that you are too ignorant to understand typology, foreshadowing authority and succession in Isaiah 22, and run and hide from the above mentioned prophecies.
I was going to give you one more chance, but I've changed my mind. You cannot read, or twist everything I say. You have the marks of a bully; you have no manners and are uncivilized. Your replies are irrational and condescending, and you pretend to know what you are talking about when in fact you know very little. Your hateful persecution of what you think Catholicism teaches is based on blind prejudice, not facts, and nothing short of the power of the Holy Spirit can heal it. Good bye.
. It wasn't failing, God transferred authority to keep it from failing. You simply cannot read. You are just being stupid. No, and I never said they were. Keep reversing everything I say and I will put you in my ignorasium where you can play with the Whore-duh-Babble-on psychos.
Chapter and verse please. You are saying that Daniel (2:24) and Jeremiah (33:17) are false prophets.
It demonstrates that you are too ignorant to understand typology, foreshadowing authority and succession in Isaiah 22, and run and hide from the above mentioned prophecies.
I was going to give you one more chance, but I've changed my mind. You cannot read, or twist everything I say. You have the marks of a bully; you have no manners and are uncivilized. Your replies are irrational and condescending, and you pretend to know what you are talking about when in fact you know very little. Your hateful persecution of what you think Catholicism teaches is based on blind prejudice, not facts, and nothing short of the power of the Holy Spirit can heal it. Good bye.
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