I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

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Feb 6, 2015
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The pope said

I’ve said it, but I repeat it. Our Lady, Mary, was more important
than the Apostles, than bishops, deacons and priests.
Oh wait a minute, he left out God!!! Don't you always says we Catholics believe Mary is as important as God. {rolling eyes, and sarcasam}
 
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The term "Pope" was not used at the time the New Testament was written, but his role as universal leader of the Church is quite evident in scripture. What has Pope Francis said that deserves your derision of the Papacy?

No, but you can't see Peter's leadership that is all over the Bible. "Trinity" is not in the NT, do you object to that term on the same grounds?

Yes, he was.

Why are so many distinctive Catholic doctrines found in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd centuries?

Every early church Christian writer before the 4th century were liars?

Matt. to Rev. - Peter is mentioned more than all the Apostles combined.

Matt. 10:2; Mark 1:36; 3:16; Luke 6:14-16; Acts 1:3; 2:37; 5:29 - these are some of many examples where Peter is mentioned first among the apostles.


Matt. 14:28-29 - only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith to walk on water. This faith ultimately did not fail.


Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 - Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.


Matt. 16:17 - Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.


Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.


Matt. 16:19 - only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.


Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus' tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.


Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ's representative on earth.


Matt. 18:21 - in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus' teachings.


Matt. 19:27 - Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.


Mark 10:28 - here also, Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples by declaring that they have left everything to follow Him.


Mark 11:21 - Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples in remembering Jesus' curse on the fig tree.


Mark 14:37 - at Gethsemane, Jesus asks Peter, and no one else, why he was asleep. Peter is accountable to Jesus for his actions on behalf of the apostles because he has been appointed by Jesus as their leader.


Mark 16:7 - Peter is specified by an angel as the leader of the apostles as the angel confirms the resurrection of Christ.


Luke 5:3 – Jesus teaches from Peter’s boat which is metaphor for the Church. Jesus guides Peter and the Church into all truth.


Luke 5:4,10 - Jesus instructs Peter to let down the nets for a catch, and the miraculous catch follows. Peter, the Pope, is the "fisher of men."


Luke 7:40-50- Jesus addresses Peter regarding the rule of forgiveness and Peter answers on behalf of the disciples. Jesus also singles Peter out and judges his conduct vis-à-vis the conduct of the woman who anointed Him.


Luke 8:45 - when Jesus asked who touched His garment, it is Peter who answers on behalf of the disciples.


Luke 8:51; 9:28; 22:8; Acts 1:13; 3:1,3,11; 4:13,19; 8:14 - Peter is always mentioned before John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.


Luke 9:28;33 - Peter is mentioned first as going to mountain of transfiguration and the only one to speak at the transfiguration.


Luke 12:41 - Peter seeks clarification of a parable on behalf on the disciples. This is part of Peter's formation as the chief shepherd of the flock after Jesus ascended into heaven.


Luke 22:31-32 - Jesus prays for Peter alone, that his faith may not fail, and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles.


Luke 24:12, John 20:4-6 - John arrived at the tomb first but stopped and waited for Peter. Peter then arrived and entered the tomb first.


Luke 24:34 - the two disciples distinguish Peter even though they both had seen the risen Jesus the previous hour. See Luke 24:33.


John 6:68 - after the disciples leave, Peter is the first to speak and confess his belief in Christ after the Eucharistic discourse.


John 13:6-9 - Peter speaks out to the Lord in front of the apostles concerning the washing of feet.


John 13:36; 21:18 - Jesus predicts Peter's death. Peter was martyred at Rome in 67 A.D. Several hundred years of papal successors were also martyred.


John 21:2-3,11 - Peter leads the fishing and his net does not break. The boat (the "barque of Peter") is a metaphor for the Church.


John 21:7 - only Peter got out of the boat and ran to the shore to meet Jesus. Peter is the earthly shepherd leading us to God.


John 21:15 - in front of the apostles, Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus "more than these," which refers to the other apostles. Peter is the head of the apostolic see.


John 21:15-17 - Jesus charges Peter to "feed my lambs," "tend my sheep," "feed my sheep." Sheep means all people, even the apostles.


Acts 1:13 - Peter is first when entering upper room after our Lord's ascension. The first Eucharist and Pentecost were given in this room.


Acts 1:15 - Peter initiates the selection of a successor to Judas right after Jesus ascended into heaven, and no one questions him. Further, if the Church needed a successor to Judas, wouldn't it need one to Peter? Of course.


Acts 2:14 - Peter is first to speak for the apostles after the Holy Spirit descended upon them at Pentecost. Peter is the first to preach the Gospel.


Acts 2:38 - Peter gives first preaching in the early Church on repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.


Acts 3:1,3,4 - Peter is mentioned first as going to the Temple to pray.


Acts 3:6-7 - Peter works the first healing of the apostles.


Acts 3:12-26, 4:8-12 - Peter teaches the early Church the healing through Jesus and that there is no salvation other than Christ.


Acts 5:3 - Peter declares the first anathema of Ananias and Sapphira which is ratified by God, and brings about their death. Peter exercises his binding authority.


Acts 5:15 - Peter's shadow has healing power. No other apostle is said to have this power.


Acts 8:14 - Peter is mentioned first in conferring the sacrament of confirmation.


Acts 8:20-23 - Peter casts judgment on Simon's quest for gaining authority through the laying on of hands. Peter exercises his binding and loosing authority.


Acts 9:32-34 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and works the healing of Aeneas.


Acts 9:38-40 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and raises Tabitha from the dead.


Acts 10:5 - Cornelius is told by an angel to call upon Peter. Angels are messengers of God. Peter was granted this divine vision.


Acts 10:34-48, 11:1-18 - Peter is first to teach about salvation for all (Jews and Gentiles).


Acts 12:5 - this verse implies that the "whole Church" offered "earnest prayers" for Peter, their leader, during his imprisonment.


Acts 12:6-11 - Peter is freed from jail by an angel. He is the first object of divine intervention in the early Church.


Acts 15:7-12 - Peter resolves the first doctrinal issue on circumcision at the Church's first council at Jerusalem, and no one questions him. After Peter the Papa spoke, all were kept silent.


Acts 15:12 - only after Peter (the Pope) speaks do Paul and Barnabas (bishops) speak in support of Peter's definitive teaching.


Acts 15:13-14 - then James speaks to further acknowledge Peter's definitive teaching. "Simeon (Peter) has related how God first visited..."


Rom. 15:20 - Paul says he doesn't want to build on "another man's foundation" referring to Peter, who built the Church in Rome.


1 Cor. 9:5 – Peter is distinguished from the rest of the apostles and brethren of the Lord.


1 Cor. 15:4-8 - Paul distinguishes Jesus' post-resurrection appearances to Peter from those of the other apostles. Christ appeared “to Cephas, then to the twelve.”


Gal.1:18 - Paul spends fifteen days with Peter privately before beginning his ministry, even after Christ's Revelation to Paul.


1 Peter 5:1 - Peter acts as the chief bishop by "exhorting" all the other bishops and elders of the Church.


2 Peter 1:14 - Peter writes about Jesus' prediction of Peter's death, embracing the eventual martyrdom that he would suffer.


2 Peter 3:16 - Peter is making a judgment on the proper interpretation of Paul's letters. Peter is the chief shepherd of the flock.


Matt. 23:11; Mark 9:35; 10:44 - yet Peter, as the first, humbled himself to be the last and servant of all servants.

Calling Catholics liars is rude and vicious and based on biblical illiteracy and blind prejudice. It is behavior unbecoming of anyone claiming to be a Christian, recklessly throwing around stupid insults, persecuting Catholics "in the name of Jesus". You should be ashamed of yourself.
Is that all the Scripture you could come up with epostle? :)


Pax tecum
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Oh wait a minute, he left out God!!! Don't you always says we Catholics believe Mary is as important as God. {rolling eyes, and sarcasam}
No, I do not always say that...
 

Magenta

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Mary Magdalene: The First "Apostle" of the Good News of the Resurrection

Even after most of the male disciples had fled for their lives, Mary Magdalene remained and witnessed Jesus' crucifixion (Matthew 27:55-56, Mark 15:40, John 19:25). She saw where His body was laid to rest in Joseph's tomb, and helped to prepare the spices and ointments for embalming the body (Matthew 27:61, Mark 15:47, Luke 23:55-56). She was not able to go to the tomb immediately on account of the Sabbath; yet, as soon as she could, as morning began on the first day of the week, she was there to finish embalming Jesus' body (Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:1, Luke 24:1-2, John 20:1).

As she arrived, she noticed that the stone had been moved (Mark 16:4, Luke 24:2, John 20:1). She and the other women were disturbed and went back to Simon Peter and John, informing them that the stone had been moved and someone had taken the body of Jesus (John 20:2). After they had seen the empty tomb and had returned to their place, Mary remained there at the tomb, weeping (John 20:3-11). She looked into the tomb and saw two angels asking why she wept (John 20:12-13; cf. Matthew 28:2-5, Mark 16:5-6, Luke 24:4-7). She was not weeping for joy; she wept because someone had taken the body of her Lord, and she did not know where the body was (John 20:13b).

Then, all of a sudden, a man stood near her. He wanted to know why she wept. She presumed him to be the gardener, and asked him where he had taken the body of Jesus so that she could take it away and properly prepare it (John 20:14-15).

He then called to her by name: "Mary." Then she knew. "Rabboni!" she exclaimed; it was Jesus! He was no longer dead, but alive! Jesus then sent her to inform the disciples how He had risen from the dead. She, and the other women, dutifully did so with great joy (John 20:16-18; cf. Matthew 28:6-8, Mark 16:7-11, Luke 24:8-10).

Thus Mary Magdalene was the first person to see Jesus in His resurrection and the first person sent to tell others of the resurrected Jesus. In this sense she is the first "apostle of the Gospel of the resurrection," the first witness to Jesus risen from the dead and the first person sent (which is what "apostle" means) to tell others of the good news of His resurrection.

http://www.bible.ca/ef/topical-mary-magdalene-the-first-aposlte-of-the-good-news-0f-the-resurrection.htm

 
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I don't get it, but it still made me chuckle :)
I don't know how to post pictures and videos, but . . .

go to youtube and type in Tombstone (I'm your huckelberry) You'll understand. :)
 
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Ha.... ridiculous???? I'll tell ya whats ridiculous. (or maybe a better word would be doltish) like Magenta, you have no idea if I'm an African American man or not, but still find it okay to call me "Boy"?
I didn't read anything past this. I couldn't care less if you're Black or not. I'm not held hostage by race baiters and politically correct thought police; I will say what's on my heart anytime, anywhere. You call someone girl then wine in your diapers when that person calls you boy. She's right; you're no man.
 
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Sorry...... but Val Kilmer you are not! Keep your day job.
Pax Christi
Is that the best you've got? Suddenly I'm sorry I smacked you around. Child abuse is illegal you know.
 

epostle

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Oct 24, 2015
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Is that all the Scripture you could come up with epostle? :)

Pax tecum
People_Laughing.jpg

Far more than necessary, but some will still be blind to the truth of Peter's leadership, unable to see the above wall of evidence that peppers the entire New Testament. If they admit that Peter was indeed the First Among Equals, they have no reason to rebel, which can be perceived as a threat. It's a fight for survival for them because their whole system starts crumbling. Protestant apologists, generally speaking, have abandoned arguments opposing Peter's primacy. The shift now is apostolic succession, and they can't win that one either.

It always, or at least it should, boil down to who has authority.
 
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Magenta

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Protestant apologists, generally speaking, have abandoned arguments opposing Peter's primacy. The shift now is apostolic succession, and they can't win that one either.

It always, or at least it should, boil down to who has authority.
Jesus has primacy, and all authority. You remember Jesus? Not your little Peter.
 
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I didn't read anything past this.
yeah right. {rolling eyes]

I couldn't care less if you're Black or not. I'm not held hostage by race baiters and politically correct thought police; I will say what's on my heart anytime, anywhere.
Yes, I'm sure you do..... behind the protection of your computer screen.

You call someone girl then wine in your diapers when that person calls you boy.
Sorry, I no longer wear diapers, I like to boys to swing free. :)

She's right; you're no man.
But you are.... hiding behind your computer screen.
 


Pax Christi
 
Jul 23, 2015
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:smoke: sorry to say this my brother
but all of those verses where not meant for the catholic doctrines . ...

:happy: as the written scriptures says
:read:
2 Peter: 2. 1. But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
2. And many shall follow their riotousnesses, through whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you. Whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their perdition slumbereth not.

:rofl: no doubt how peter warns everyone about the things to come . ...

God blesd us all always


:ty:
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
I didn't read anything past this. I couldn't care less if you're Black or not. I'm not held hostage by race baiters and politically correct thought police; I will say what's on my heart anytime, anywhere. You call someone girl then wine in your diapers when that person calls you boy. She's right; you're no man.
utah would never hurt anyones feelings. and dont get him started on native americans!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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magenta how have you never seen tombstone??

"my hypocrisy only goes so far"
I have, but it is an awfully long movie, and not really my genre... ;)

I looked up the clip Utah suggested, but could only watch about a minute of it, since I was pretty busy at work... it did look interesting and quite humorous being so intense :)
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Oh wait a minute, he left out God!!! Don't you always says we Catholics believe Mary is as important as God. {rolling eyes, and sarcasam}
you really need to get those eyes fixed!!!
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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yeah right. {rolling eyes]



Yes, I'm sure you do..... behind the protection of your computer screen.


But you are.... hiding behind your computer screen.
LOL and what are you hiding behind? hypocrite
 
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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POPE'S OFFICE IN THE BIBLE

Isa.22: 19 I will thrust you from your office, and you will be pulled down from your station.


well at least that's a beginning. Now can we pull all the fat old cardinals down?
Shebnais described as having an "office" and a "station."An office, in order for it to be an office, has successors.
For crying out loud Shebna was a politician. Of course he had to have successors. But not by divine right. What has he to do with the Pope? Although I do agree about the Pope being removed from office.

In order for an earthly kingdom to last, a succession of representatives is required.
NONSENSE. Its a matter of choice. No divine requirement. You people do seize at straws. No wonder you're discredited. This is why Roman Catholicism is a laughing stock.

This was the case in the Old Covenant kingdom, and it is the case in the New Covenant kingdom which fulfills the Old Covenant. Jesus our King is in heaven, but Hehas appointed a chief steward over His household with a plan for a succession of representatives.
The New Covenant kingdom is NOT an earthly kingdom. 'My kingdom is NOT of this world', said Jesus. Earthly kings were stuck in one place. Jesus Christ is everywhere. He does not need ministers. Jesus Christ is over my church. We need no fat prelates.

Isa.22:20In that day I will call my servant Eli'akim the son of Hilki'ah,
LOL you are just a joke. Or are you being serious. What has the Judean prime minister to do with God's rule?

Isa.22:20 - in the old Davidic kingdom, Eliakim succeeds Shebna as thechief steward of the household of God. The kingdom employs amechanism of dynastic succession. King David was dead for centuries,but his kingdom is preserved through a succession of representatives.
LOL are you serious? It was the KING who had the dynastic succession. Our King lives for ever. He needs no succession. You're just a joke. It is JESUS Who holds the key of David (Rev 3.7). No one else.

Isa.22:21 and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be afather to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.
Soooo? This was a prime minister. It had nothing to do with the things of God. Are you simple?

Isa.22:21 - Eliakim is called “father” or “papa” of God's people.
where does it say the people called him father? You are just inventing it. Had they done so they would have been severely punished. It was just a description like those used of all kings and their ministers in those days. So you are saying the Popes were like Nebuchadnezzar? Well they certainly behaved like him LOL You're a good representative of the Roman Catholics. Any lie will do.

Have you forgotten something? Jesus said 'CALL NO MAN FATHER'.

The word Pope used by Catholics to describe the chief steward of the earthly kingdom simply means papa or father in Italian.
What learning. Where you fail is that your Papa is NOT the chief steward of any earthly kingdom. He is a usurper who controls a secessionist church that broke away from the Catholic church in 8th century AD.

This is why Roman Catholics call the leader of the Church "Pope."
WOW and I never realised it.

It is clearly scriptural.
Utter and complete rubbish as I have shown you. If you list all the fathers in the Old Testament you will find thousands. Are you saying they were all predecessors to the Pope? You must be joking.

If you can't find "Pope" in the bible, you can't find "father" either.
you really are a hoot. There are thousands of fathers in the Bible. None of them were remotely like Fat Francis and his ilk. And Jesus said, 'Call no man 'father'. So both you and the Pope are disobeying God.

The Pope is the father of God's people, the chief steward of the earthly kingdom and Christ's representative on earth.
Total utter and complete rubbish. He is the father of the pathetic group of Roman Catholics who call him so IN DIRECT DISOBEDIENCE TO THE TEACHING OF JESUS CHRIST WHO SAID 'CALL NO MAN FATHER'. He is a self-appointed bigot. He has NO jurisdiction over the true church of Jesus Christ.


Isa.22:22And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shallopen.
well he's welcome to open and shut doors for us.

Isa.22:22 - we see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna toEliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority,but also to facilitate succession.
The keys were given to him. It does not say that they were the symbol of any authority. I have bunch of keys. Does that make me Pope? The keys did not 'facilitate succession', They facilitated the opening of doors LOL

The keys of Christ's kingdom havepassed from Peter to Linus all the way to our current Pope with anunbroken lineage for almost 2,000 years.
Absolute rubbish.. The keys Peter was given were for his use alone for binding and loosing. The scribes were given a key of knowledge to enable them to bind and loose (determine which laws should be strictly applied and which should be made lighter). That is what Peter and the other Apostles were given. It is Jesus Who has the keys of death and Hades. The only keys of Christ's kingdom are in the hands of Jesus. Who holds the key of David? JESUS CHRIST (Reve 3.7).

Ther was no succession.. Linus was never sole bishop of Rome. Peter was never bishop of Rome. There was no sole bishop of Rome when Clement and Ignatius wrote. You simply close your eye to the facts.

Rev. 3:7- Jesus' "keys" undeniably represent authority.
There was ONE KEY, the key of David, and that was held by Jesus Christ. It was given to no one.

By using the word "keys," Jesus gives Peter authority on earth over the new Davidic kingdom,
Don't be absurd. The keys of Judah were lost long before. The office of prime minister ceased long before. There was no succession. Peter had no authority over any Davidic kingdom which did not exist anyway. You are just a bad joke.

and this was not seriously questioned by anyone until the Protestant reformation 1,500 years later after Peter’s investiture.
Are you serious? The bishop of Rome's later claims were rejected again and again. You clearly do not know any church history.

Revelation3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: `The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens.
Yes, JESUS had the key of David and controlled world affairs, NOT Peter.


 
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Sorry, I no longer wear diapers, I like to boys to swing free.
My apologies to all for this statement, (was having a locker room moment) especally to the women folk, It was inappropriate for this forum.

What I should have said to utah was: "So far,you are the only one within this forum that feels that way."


Again.... my deepest apologies.

Pax Christi
 
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