If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Christianity encompasses all denominations, not only Roman Catholic..

In Christianity you have the Protestant and all the denominations that encompasses, Orthodox faiths and Roman Catholic..

When you combine all Christian faith denominations it surpasses Islam in number of adherents..
Yep, if you include catholic as Christian.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I would share. Three has it uses to represent the end of a matter. So the trinity has value in that way . But God uses two through out the scriptures to represent the work of one. Like the ministry of the father and Son or husband and wife. One creation in his one image mankind.(male and female) Unlike the other creatures two separate creations as different beginnings.

Rather than approaching a conversation and making the point trinity as the end of the matter . Its the witness of two that help to understand the antichrists (another interpreting authority) . They deny both the Son and the father as evidence to the promise in Isaiah 53. two working together to bring the peace of God . because they had no faith that comes by hearing God not seen they looked to their father seen as a source of faith . More of the dynamic duo. The unseen Father working with the Son of man , Jesus. God seen.
No Jesus no Father no Father no Jesus . Know the father and the Son, know the peace God

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Like love and marriage can't have one without the other.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Jesus spoke of not thinking . . . . They were replacing the faith that comes from hearing our Holy Father with men on earth called fathers .The faithless Jews sought after the flesh of Abraham as if he was God not seen not abiding in the spiritual seed, Christ .


Making Abraham as a god in likeness of men as a law of the fathers oral traditions of men

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

The Catholic as carbon copies show themselves replacing the word Abraham with Peter. Same law of the fathers oral traditions of men, different names. Same kind of reformation (sola scriptura) it restored the government of God time and time again .

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Peter to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these lively stones that make up the spiritual unseen house of God, the church to raise up children unto Peter.
The scripture came to mind, perhaps it relates
Matthew 19: 5. and said, 'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall join to his wife;
and the two shall become one flesh?'
 

Hazelelponi

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Jul 8, 2019
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I believe that most Jews also deny that God is Father son and holy Spirit, and they also deny that the Messiah will be God in the flesh.

"But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being."

http://www.jewfaq.org/m/mashiach.htm

Your allowing your understanding of the Triune nature of God to cloud your judgment on this matter..

Did the Messiah Jesus and the Apostles preach a different God to the Jewish peoples, those lost sheep of Israel?

yes or no..
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Answer = They (Jews) would have to believe in a different God than me (which they don't)

Do you believe in the Books of the Law and the Prophets?

That they are God-Breathed Scripture?

Do you believe in the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob?

Do you believe in the Covanent God made with all three, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Do you not believe the Messiah was promised through that exact Covanent?

If your answer is yes what difference is there? That you have a fuller understanding of God now that the Messiah came as promised and you believe in His Name?

You don't worship a different God, so why do you claim they do?
"Answer = They (Jews) would have to believe in a different God than me (which they don't)"

Well, and I mean this as gently as possible, you keep asserting your conclusion as part of your syllogism.

What would a Jewish person have to say about God to make it a different God than the Christian God?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Interesting thing about the one world government, I think.

Daniel talks about a one world government in chapter 2, with Nebuchadnezzar as its head at that time.

Daniel 2: 37. You, O king, are king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the strength, and the glory; 38. and wherever the children of men dwell, the animals of the field and the birds of the sky has he given into your hand, and has made you to rule over them all: you are the head of gold.

Was Nebuchadnezzar in 600 BC ruling over people in places like Indonesia, China, South America? To be honest, I would say no.

So a one world government may not be what we imagine it is.
Rev 13 say the beast has authority to all nations

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

....power was given to him over all ...........nations

What kind of government you think one world government look like?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I know a lot of bible version, but Jesus sumerized the whole teaching into love


Matthew 22:36-40 King James Version (KJV)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

So if any doctrine against this teaching, against bible.

Also all version of the Bible that I know, say Jesus is the only way to the father. Catholic say Islam in the plan of salvation. It must from the devil
I think you are misunderstanding the phrase "in the plan of salvation."

Who wrote the Gospel of Matthew, the human who wrote it down? Was it Matthew the apostle?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Your allowing your understanding of the Triune nature of God to cloud your judgment on this matter..

Did the Messiah Jesus and the Apostles preach a different God to the Jewish peoples, those lost sheep of Israel?

yes or no..
Jesus and the apostles preached the same God to Israel, the same God that Christians currently believe in.

I mean in the sense that we're talking about it here. I think the Bible also talks about the god of this world, and some people following him.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Rev 13 say the beast has authority to all nations

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

....power was given to him over all ...........nations

What kind of government you think one world government look like?
Just like Daniel said that Nebuchadnezzar ruled over all peoples. So I guess a one world government would look like Babylon about 600 BC.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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"Answer = They (Jews) would have to believe in a different God than me (which they don't)"

Well, and I mean this as gently as possible, you keep asserting your conclusion as part of your syllogism.

What would a Jewish person have to say about God to make it a different God than the Christian God?
They would have to say God is a man as us . And the corrupted flesh of the Son of man, Jesus could of profited.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I would say he is fulfilling it as the god of this world. God will remove the chaff from the wheat on the last day. Whern all of the kingdoms or denominations of the world will be his.

Catholicism served by a "law of the fathers . . . venerable men, a form of worship as those who lord it over another man's faith or those who follow after the fathers of Islam show they have no faith that comes from hearing all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) it alone is the reforming restoring authority in any generation or nation of people . Again they must follow a "law of the fathers) as oral traditions of men making the word of God as it is written without effect.. In the end of the matter making men seen the author of their faith as many venerable authors . Like Mohamed, Joself Smith or the Pope the Holy Father made up of a legion called Apostolical succession destroying the meaning of Apostle so that men could rather have faith in respect to what the eyes see. Having received their reward (15 minutes of fame). . They have no living hope in a new body which will not Jew nor gentile male nor female.

Take away their own private books of the law of men... . that they call of Devine origin. . they fall . As did Satan after three times the father put his word in Jesus's mouth as it is written.

One book written by one God who is not a man as us..

Hebrews 12:2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Yep, a man will gain the power if he able to use religion for his political agenda.

If you can say god want you to do this, people will do it.

Wich one is easier to make money, to say:


1. If you buy the certificate of forgiveness, God will forgive you.

Or

2. Please donate to me
 

Hazelelponi

Active member
Jul 8, 2019
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Jesus and the apostles preached the same God to Israel, the same God that Christians currently believe in.

I mean in the sense that we're talking about it here. I think the Bible also talks about the god of this world, and some people following him.

If Jesus and the Apostles preached the same God the Israelites believed in to the Israelites, and they worship that same God today, then the Jews worship your God.

If, on the other hand you believe in a different God than the Messiah preached to Israel, then you worship a different God than Jews do - including their Messiah Jesus of Nazareth.

If you believe in the God of Israel, through belief in the Messiah, then you are Israel by adoption - according to scripture.

if you worship a different god, you can't call yourself Christian either.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Just like Daniel said that Nebuchadnezzar ruled over all peoples. So I guess a one world government would look like Babylon about 600 BC.
I agree but With the new technology the world government will rule the whole world.

It was impossible to control the whole world in Nebuchadnezzar time.

Now you able to monitor your restaurants from your home with CCTV.
 

Hazelelponi

Active member
Jul 8, 2019
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"Answer = They (Jews) would have to believe in a different God than me (which they don't)"

Well, and I mean this as gently as possible, you keep asserting your conclusion as part of your syllogism.

What would a Jewish person have to say about God to make it a different God than the Christian God?
Your comparing whether Jews and Muslims worship the same God we do in a general sense - not the fullest sense of understanding but a general sense of our God.

In this general sense (not in Spirit and in Truth as is promised under the New Covenant spoken of in Jeremiah that we are in today) but in this general sense, the answer is yes, Jews worship the exact same God we do.

The answer is in the negative for Muslims because when the same general questions are asked that I showed earlier, the answer is a definitive no to ALL points.

But we can say the Jews stand outside the covenant relationship with God and need to accept the Messiah for salvation, but they worship our God.

The same cannot be said for Muslims. They don't just stand outside the covenant, they need to believe in our God and understand and accept the covenant, and accept the Messiah for their salvation.

Jews rejected HIM because they misunderstood prophecy - a common problem even among Christians in our day.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I think you are misunderstanding the phrase "in the plan of salvation."

Who wrote the Gospel of Matthew, the human who wrote it down? Was it Matthew the apostle?
Than, what is the plan of salvation include Muslim that along with us adore abraham god mean to you?

Matthew may not one of the 12 apostle, but he was witness Jesus teaching on earth

This is the definition of apostle
Apostle [N] [E]
(Gk. apostolos [ajpovstolo"]). Envoy, ambassador, or messenger commissioned to carry out the instructions of the commissioning aget.
Etymology and Usage of the Term Pre-Christian use of apostolos [ajpovstolo"] in the sense of messenger is rare. More common is the verb apostello, referring to the sending of a fleet or an embassy. Only in Herodotus (1.21; 5.38) is it used of a personal envoy. Josephus employs it once (Antiquities17.11.1) in the classical sense of an embassy. Epictetus (Discourse3.22) speaks of the ideal Cynic teacher as one "sent by Zeus" to be a messenger of the gods and an "overseer" of human affairs.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/apostle/
 

no1

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Aug 19, 2019
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Well your theology is somewhat confused. Sacraments and intercessions are works not grace therefore they do not contribute to salvation. I have Catholic in-laws and I have done some study of the last forty years. Catholics say one thing but mean something entirely different from what the bible teaches.

To understand Romans 10:8-10 and Mat 7:21 you must include context. Mat 7:21 is prophetic to Israel and Romans 10:8-10 is written to the church.

Judas is a study in and of himself. Don't suppose to know the mind of God on the matter. Judas never believed Christ was the Messiah that he was seeking. Judas wanted power and wealth much like the Catholic church. Muslims are heathen and have no part in the coming kingdom of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Romans 10 explains HOW one is born again, that is in context.
It's quite simple.
Say or confess Jesus as your lord with your mouth, when you believe God the Father raised Him from the dead for your justification, BAM!!!!, born again.
It only takes a moment to confess what you believe, but a lifetime to both keep and live it.
 

Deuteronomy

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Jun 11, 2018
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Some Jews about 150 BC translated the old testament into Greek, which translation the New testament authors seem to frequently use. But the list of books in that translation is different from what most Protestants use today. Were the apostles using that list from the Jews? You're probably familiar with the miratorian fragment. It gives a clue into what books were being used in I think it's the middle of Italy about 150 ad. But it's a different list from which books are commonly used today.
Hi Dan, I'm sorry for taking so long to get back to you (I see that I missed more than one of your replies to me :().

It's true that the Septuagint 'typically' contains several of the Apocryphal or Deuterocanonical books, books that most of our Protestant Bibles do not contain today. This is not always true however, because a few of the copies (codexes) of the Septuagint contain the 39 Books of the OT only.

I believe the bigger issue is found with the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Bibles however, because unlike the Septuagint and modern Protestant Bibles, they 1. ~always~ include the Apocryphal / Deuterocanonical books but 2. ~never~ include the exact same list of Apocryphal / Deuterocanonical books that we find in the Septuagint codexes that contain those books.

Another problem with choosing to regard the Apocryphal books as Deuterocanonical books instead is the fact that 1. they were well-known to both the Lord and to the Apostles but 2. unlike the OT, neither the Lord nor the Apostles quoted the Apocryphal books in the NT saying of them (for instance), "it is written", not even once!

~Deut
 

Deuteronomy

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Jun 11, 2018
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Jesus and Paul quoted to their audience from whatever writings their audience considered reliable.
Hi again Dan, that seems to make sense Biblically .. cf 1 Corinthians 9:20-22.

Of course, it seems to me that this adds to the case ~against~ using the Apocryphal books as part of the regula fidei, because if both Jesus' and Paul's audiences considered the Apocryphal books to be "reliable", then why didn't they quote from them in the NT (like they so often chose to do with the OT) :unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut
 

JamOn

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Jun 10, 2019
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Not only fastest but biggest

Vatican: Islam Surpasses Roman Catholicism as World's Largest Religion
By | Associated Press
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VATICAN CITY – Islam has surpassed Roman Catholicism as the world's largest religion, the Vatican newspaper said Sunday.

"For the first time in history, we are no longer at the top: Muslims have overtaken us," Monsignor Vittorio Formenti said in an interview with the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano. Formenti compiles the Vatican's yearbook.


https://www.foxnews.com/story/vatican-islam-surpasses-roman-catholicism-as-worlds-largest-religion
That isn’t quite what they are saying, there are six different Catholic rites Roman is just one.
World wide all Catholic rites is about half of a billion more than Muslim.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-different-types-of-Catholics-are-there
 

JamOn

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Jun 10, 2019
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Fox flubbed the title up
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
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And here’s where the data got wrong,

copied from that Fox News post, red flag data

Formenti said that the data refer to 2006. The figures on Muslims were put together by Muslim countries and then provided to the United Nations, he said, adding that the Vatican could only vouch for its own data.