If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

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Webers.Home

Active member
May 28, 2018
864
154
43
Oregon
#41
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My sincere condolences to you and your family sir.
Thank you. I appreciate your regard.


My Dad, a Roman Catholic his whole life, like your brother, passed away
about 4 months after your brother Mr. Dolan did.
I truly feel for your loss in a way that only someone who has also lost loved
ones can. Before my brother passed away, I could only sympathize with
others who've gone down that road; now I can empathize.
_
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,737
2,583
113
#42
This is what Catholics believe about Jesus
We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father.
And yet the focus of the Catholic church is on Mary. What does that tell you?

1565753922338.png
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,042
537
113
#43
Catholic say muslim worship Abraham God?

This video is in Indonesian, ex muslim girld accept Jesus 7 years ago, so she was 16 No job, depend oN her parent, when her parent know she was Christian, he bit her till blood come from hr earn, he Tore her bible and burn It, and say, i know your ear bleeding,
But wound in my heart is worse

Do you believe islam worship Abraham God? Or you believe catholic is Lie


 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,260
751
113
#44
Matthew 7:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

There are people Honestly call God and this people follow the teaching of the Lotd.

There are people call Jesus Lord but not honest. Catholic call Jesus Lord, but teach Allah, islam God is Abraham God.

Real Abraham God teach us Jesus is God

Islam God teach Jesus not God

If Allah = Christian God, than God is Lie either to Christian or muslim
here's something interesting I think about people who worship Allah.

I've been learning bits and pieces of Indonesian, mostly praise choruses. Indonesia is something like 90% Muslim, but there is a growing number of Protestant Christians there and several mega churches!

One praise song I like has the phrase
Allah yang Perkasa

which roughly translates to
God that mighty one
from Isaiah 9:6
the mighty God.

are they worshipping Allah? well, sort of.

the word for God in Indonesian is Allah, probably because of the Muslim/Arabic influence.

does that mean they are following the teachings of Muhammad? not at all, they are on fire Christians just like you and me!
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,260
751
113
#45
Let not forget, most protestan declare bible as the source of the doctrine

Catholic, bible+ tradition+ magister

The very foundation is different how you build same building?

You can not build circle shape building If the foundation is rectangle

Even among protestant that declare have same foundation (bible) there are many doctrine
an interesting thing happens when people say that they want to use just the Bible and not Christian tradition.

this is something that really softened my view towards Catholicism and eastern Orthodoxy decades ago.

if we want to use just the Bible and we ask ourselves the question which books should be in the Bible, how do we find out? this is sometimes called the Canon of scripture. what is the list of books in the Bible?

for example, using just the Bible, how would we decide if the book of Jude is supposed to be in the Bible?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,260
751
113
#46
It say:

But the plan of salvation include.......... muslim,

It do not say If they believe Jesus is God. Catholic know muslim do not believe Jesus God,
And catholic know jew do not believe that Jesus is God

Why catholic say muslim worship Abraham's God. This is mislead.
I don't think it's misleading.

it's talking about the question of what happens to people who have never heard the gospel.

It's the same situation that Paul is talking about here
Romans 2: 7. to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory, honor, and incorruptibility, eternal life; 8. but to those who are self-seeking, and don't obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, will be wrath and indignation, 9. oppression and anguish, on every soul of man who works evil, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 10. But glory, honor, and peace go to every man who works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 11. For there is no partiality with God. 12. For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified 14. (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15. in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) 16. in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my Good News, by Jesus Christ.

Yes, the plan of salvation does include Muslims as it includes all humans.
They go on to write
"Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.(16)"

So I think what they're saying is that humans in all places and throughout history have always been welcome to seek God. The Muslims do you have an advantage over some cultures in that they acknowledge one universal God.

Suppose we say that Jews and Christians worship the same God. Jewish rabbis generally accepted by worldwide jewry say that God did not incarnate himself through Mary. So, is it the same God?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,260
751
113
#47
Not every body that state Jesus is God believe It. Some people say to make look like

Believe in Jesus mean believe in His teaching.

Some time pope believe Atheist that do not believe in Jesus may go to heaven

https://charterforcompassion.org/un...-don-t-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven

So I do not think catholic believe Jesus teaching, It may believe some of Jesus teaching but not all
Yes, I was talking about what the stated beliefs were. Of course, both Catholics and Protestants sometimes believe something different from what they say.

Not all Protestants believe exactly all the right things about God.

Was the pope speaking ex cathedra when he was answering those questions?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,260
751
113
#48
And yet the focus of the Catholic church is on Mary. What does that tell you?

View attachment 202697
Well, what it tells me, and I don't mean this to sound snarky in any way

It tells me that Catholics believe that God preserves the church, and that the Bible is a product of the church.

In contrast to Protestants, who often believe that God preserves the Bible, and that the church is, or ought to be, a product of the Bible.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,260
751
113
#49
Catholic say muslim worship Abraham God?

This video is in Indonesian, ex muslim girld accept Jesus 7 years ago, so she was 16 No job, depend oN her parent, when her parent know she was Christian, he bit her till blood come from hr earn, he Tore her bible and burn It, and say, i know your ear bleeding,
But wound in my heart is worse

Do you believe islam worship Abraham God? Or you believe catholic is Lie


I think that Muslims worship, or say that they strive to worship, the one true God.

They are mistaken about Muhammad being God's prophet.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,260
751
113
#50
Acts 17: 22. Paul stood in the middle of the Areopagus, and said, "You men of Athens, I perceive that you are very religious in all things. 23. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you.


The Athenians were trying to worship God. At least some of them.

But they were worshipping in ignorance. It's not that the unknown God was different from the God that Paul preached, the Athenians just didn't have the same Revelation that the Jews did.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,021
1,576
113
#51
we both Love our brother Tourist so much and our only desire is to share and put forth
what our Heavenly Father has taught us, without prejudice -
when and if one is 'born' into any denomination, it is so very difficult to 'step-back',
and actually SEE THE BIG-PICTURE' -

when we are 'born' into such an 'emotional-bondage', it is 'impossible to break these chains
by 'ourselves' - only by Christ our Lord, can we become un-entangled from the doctrines of men!!!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,042
537
113
#52
here's something interesting I think about people who worship Allah.

I've been learning bits and pieces of Indonesian, mostly praise choruses. Indonesia is something like 90% Muslim, but there is a growing number of Protestant Christians there and several mega churches!

One praise song I like has the phrase
Allah yang Perkasa

which roughly translates to
God that mighty one
from Isaiah 9:6
the mighty God.

are they worshipping Allah? well, sort of.

the word for God in Indonesian is Allah, probably because of the Muslim/Arabic influence.

does that mean they are following the teachings of Muhammad? not at all, they are on fire Christians just like you and me!
Yep, Allah mean God. But muslim God is not Christian God

Christian God teach us Jesus is God

Muslim God tell to mohammad that Jesus is not God

That video I foward above is a testimony of a girl, when she was 16
, her parent ask her to leave because she accept Jesus

Catholic say muslim God is also Christian God, than why this girl suppose worship the same god with his parent disowned by her parent?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,042
537
113
#53
Acts 17: 22. Paul stood in the middle of the Areopagus, and said, "You men of Athens, I perceive that you are very religious in all things. 23. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you.


The Athenians were trying to worship God. At least some of them.

But they were worshipping in ignorance. It's not that the unknown God was different from the God that Paul preached, the Athenians just didn't have the same Revelation that the Jews did.
If a person seeking real God, Jesus Will reveal Himself to that person.

Jesus Will not say, I am Allah, muslim God
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,042
537
113
#54
Well, what it tells me, and I don't mean this to sound snarky in any way

It tells me that Catholics believe that God preserves the church, and that the Bible is a product of the church.

In contrast to Protestants, who often believe that God preserves the Bible, and that the church is, or ought to be, a product of the Bible.
If people believe bible is the word of God, than he must believe bible is product of God.

Word of God = word that come from God

If bible product of church, than bible is word of church

And church consist of human

Than bible is word of human
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,737
2,583
113
#55
Well, what it tells me, and I don't mean this to sound snarky in any way
That's not *snarky*. It is delusional.

1. The Catholic Church is NOT the true church of God. One clear indication is that the priests and bishops are corrupt and corrupt others. And Pope Francis is a Left-Liberal Globalist deceiving the whole world with his pronouncements.

2. God gave us the Bible. The Catholic Church has a bible with seven books which are not divinely inspired but called apocryphal by the Christians.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,227
1,655
113
#56
The church that Christ established is an organism. The church of Rome is an organization. Believers born again are accounted the body the church of Christ. Religious folks are not born again and not part of the living church that belongs to Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,042
537
113
#59
I don't think it's misleading.

it's talking about the question of what happens to people who have never heard the gospel.

It's the same situation that Paul is talking about here
Romans 2: 7. to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory, honor, and incorruptibility, eternal life; 8. but to those who are self-seeking, and don't obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, will be wrath and indignation, 9. oppression and anguish, on every soul of man who works evil, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 10. But glory, honor, and peace go to every man who works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 11. For there is no partiality with God. 12. For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified 14. (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15. in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) 16. in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my Good News, by Jesus Christ.

Yes, the plan of salvation does include Muslims as it includes all humans.
They go on to write
"Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.(16)"

So I think what they're saying is that humans in all places and throughout history have always been welcome to seek God. The Muslims do you have an advantage over some cultures in that they acknowledge one universal God.

Suppose we say that Jews and Christians worship the same God. Jewish rabbis generally accepted by worldwide jewry say that God did not incarnate himself through Mary. So, is it the same God?
If catholic talking about people that never hear about Jesus than say so. No need mention muslim,

It say plan of salvation include ..........muslim that worship Abraham God.

Muslim not worship Abraham God.

Abraham God teach Jesus is God

Muslim God tell mohammad Jesus is not God
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,042
537
113
#60
Yes, I was talking about what the stated beliefs were. Of course, both Catholics and Protestants sometimes believe something different from what they say.

Not all Protestants believe exactly all the right things about God.

Was the pope speaking ex cathedra when he was answering those questions?
But protestan that I know declare bible as they doctrine foundation, catholic say bible + tradition + magister

Also catholic think they are above God, they think they produce bible.