If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

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calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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lawton ok
#21
Sorry, but I grew up catholic, school and all. And the mass IS poison in so many ways to souls.

You don't need a massive amount of poison in a drink to make it fatal, and the RCC has way more than just a little.
8 years of Catechism and two years of Catholic High School myself before I read the Bible.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,701
2,553
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#23
I've been to many RC masses, and I have heard God's word read and preached...
Have you given serious thought to the whole concept of the Catholic Mass? In essence it is a human priest (not authorized by God) who literally RE-SACRIFICES Christ daily on an altar.


FROM THE NEW ADVENT CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
In truth, the Eucharist performs at once two functions: that of a sacrament and that of a sacrifice. Though the inseparableness of the two is most clearly seen in the fact that the consecrating sacrificial powers of the priest coincide, and consequently that the sacrament is produced only in and through the Mass, the real difference between them is shown in that the sacrament is intended privately for the sanctification of the soul, whereas the sacrifice serves primarily to glorify God by adoration, thanksgiving, prayer, and expiation. The recipient of the one is God, who receives the sacrifice of His only-begotten Son; of the other, man, who receives the sacrament for his own good.

Furthermore, the unbloody Sacrifice of the Eucharistic Christ is in its nature a transient action, while the Sacrament of the Altar continues as something permanent after the sacrifice, and can even be preserved in monstrance and ciborium. Finally, this difference also deserves mention: communion under one form only is the reception of the whole sacrament, whereas, without the use of the two forms of bread and wine (the symbolic separation of the Body and Blood), the mystical slaying of the victim, and therefore the Sacrifice of the Mass, does not take place.


The Bible clearly states that Christ made ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOREVER AND THAT HE IS BOTH THE HIGH PRIEST AND THE SACRIFICE. So the Mass is a mockery of the finished work of Christ.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#24
Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Generally speaking, Catholics do this. So I expect to see your brother in heaven.

Protestants assume that God has preserved the Bible throughout history and that it is the primary means by which God communicates his truth to humans.

Catholics assume that God has preserved the church throughout history, and that it is the primary means by which God communicates his truth to humans.
Matthew 7:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

There are people Honestly call God and this people follow the teaching of the Lotd.

There are people call Jesus Lord but not honest. Catholic call Jesus Lord, but teach Allah, islam God is Abraham God.

Real Abraham God teach us Jesus is God

Islam God teach Jesus not God

If Allah = Christian God, than God is Lie either to Christian or muslim
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#25
Is there a denomination in your opinion that has any real Christians?
Like I say, the water we drink every day is not bactery free, but I do not want to drink sewage water
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#26
Sorry, but I grew up catholic, school and all. And the mass IS poison in so many ways to souls.

You don't need a massive amount of poison in a drink to make it fatal, and the RCC has way more than just a little.
Amen

Anyone can read the bible on the pulpit. It does not mean they understand what they read.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,109
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#27
I have a less legalistic view....after all, no church is perfect, every denomination has something in their own eye. Of course as flawed and fallen humans we do a great job of pointing out what is in our neighbour's eye, while failing to see the log that is in our own eye.

I don't think Salvation comes from being a member of the Roman church, or the Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist or any other......I recently changed churces, going from the United Church of Canada to a Reformed Church....and I had some misgivings, there are some wonderful people at my old church, and they do some awesome things....but when I went to the Reformed church in town it lifted my soul and has helped me strengthen my faith and walk closer with my Lord and Saviour. I talked to a miltary chaplain about it and she said 'you have to go where your soul is fed'.

Ultimately salvation comes through acknowledgment and acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, that's my opinion. Do I think that one can come to that in the Roman tradition? Yes I do think it is possible. I have a lot of issues with Rome, but every church has its issues. The pastor at my new church did a sermon a while ago and he talked about those people who 'church shop' looing for the Perfect Church....he said if that's what you're looking for then keep looking, he said that our church...if it was perfect, it ceased to be as soon as he walked through the doors.

Blessings.
Obviously every true church has it's own shortfalls and or issues, but lest we forget....there is ONE gospel that has the power to save a man or woman.....and what the Catholic church peddles falls way short of biblical........I am not saying that all Catholics are lost....I am saying that Catholic dogma is false and not of GOD.........and it is NOT wrong or false to JUDGE the dogmas or doctrines proclaimed by so called churches......this has NOTHING to do with your premise above concerning logs and splinters........

An example of that would be if I was a drunk and I condemned you for drinking a glass of wine
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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#28
.
My eldest brother (for convenience sake, call him Larry) was ordained to the
priesthood in 1965 and remained so for 53 years prior to passing away at
the age of 78 in May of 2018.


Larry graduated from the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. He taught
at the University of San Diego and has served in parishes in San Diego,
Mexico, Portland, the Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation, and Huntington
Beach. Larry served as the Director of Pastoral Ministry and the first Rector
of the Conventual Church of Our Lady of the Angels at the Franciscan
Renewal Center, Scottsdale, Arizona.


In 1973, he served at University of San Diego as an Assistant Professor of
Religious Studies in the College of Arts and Sciences. Larry then served as
the University Chaplain and Director of Campus Ministry from September
1974 until June 1984.


Larry entered the Franciscan Order to become a Friar in 1987 after serving
as a priest of the Diocese of San Diego for 22 years. During his semi
retirement years, Larry, he was a priest at the Mission San Luis Rey in
Oceanside, California.


Supposing Rome's version of Christianity is mistaken? (This is only a
hypothetical question; I'm not alleging Rome is mistaken.) The ramifications
of that would be too awful to contemplate. It would mean that my deceased
brother is right now, this very moment, in Hell regardless of the quality and
the extent of his devotion to The Church. It would also mean that my
brother was a minister of darkness rather than light; thus everyone he
influenced was led down a path leading directly to the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where they would be facing a mode of death akin
to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.


I can only imagine the crushing, unspeakable dismay that my brother would
undergo were it to turn out that all the while he sincerely believed himself
serving Christ's best interests, he was actually serving the Devil's.
_
I feel for you. But it is the actions of our walk and the faith with which we walked
it that matter. Many organisations have errors, heresies, mistakes. We can minister
despite these, and walk in the Spirit through them.

In truth if your brother was born again and served Christ with a humble heart, Amen.
Unfortunately many have gone through catholicism and never known Jesus.

It is not our devotion that determines our walk, but rather repentance and forgiveness
through the cross. There are many who have met Jesus and could simply not stay in
the RCC because of how it operated as a parallel faith to following Jesus.

It would make me wonder how someone who truly knew love and freedom in Him could
continue in such an organisation. God bless you.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,075
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Florida
#29
I've been to many RC masses, and I have heard God's word read and preached, I would never call that sewage water...you take out what you bring with you.
I know longer attend mass but having been to many other denomination's church service I felt the most peace while attending mass. Attending the services of other churches I usually left a little empty inside like something was missing. All Christian denominations have their own particular flaws in their doctrine and practice besides the Catholic Church.
 
Aug 12, 2019
116
38
28
#30
.
My eldest brother (for convenience sake, call him Larry) was ordained to the
priesthood in 1965 and remained so for 53 years prior to passing away at
the age of 78 in May of 2018.


Larry graduated from the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. He taught
at the University of San Diego and has served in parishes in San Diego,
Mexico, Portland, the Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation, and Huntington
Beach. Larry served as the Director of Pastoral Ministry and the first Rector
of the Conventual Church of Our Lady of the Angels at the Franciscan
Renewal Center, Scottsdale, Arizona.


In 1973, he served at University of San Diego as an Assistant Professor of
Religious Studies in the College of Arts and Sciences. Larry then served as
the University Chaplain and Director of Campus Ministry from September
1974 until June 1984.


Larry entered the Franciscan Order to become a Friar in 1987 after serving
as a priest of the Diocese of San Diego for 22 years. During his semi
retirement years, Larry, he was a priest at the Mission San Luis Rey in
Oceanside, California.


Supposing Rome's version of Christianity is mistaken? (This is only a
hypothetical question; I'm not alleging Rome is mistaken.) The ramifications
of that would be too awful to contemplate. It would mean that my deceased
brother is right now, this very moment, in Hell regardless of the quality and
the extent of his devotion to The Church. It would also mean that my
brother was a minister of darkness rather than light; thus everyone he
influenced was led down a path leading directly to the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where they would be facing a mode of death akin
to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.


I can only imagine the crushing, unspeakable dismay that my brother would
undergo were it to turn out that all the while he sincerely believed himself
serving Christ's best interests, he was actually serving the Devil's.
_
My position would be that there are true believers who are part of false organizations, but are ignorant concerning their teachings.

However, if someone understands what it means to be justified by faith alone, and rejects this, he has forsaken the only hope anyone has for salvation, which is being joined to Jesus and sharing in his righteousness.

Do I think that every believer understands this? No. Do I think any believer understands it, yet continues to teach against it? No.

By the way, ancient Israel rejected Jesus' righteousness and was not spared. Do I think that Roman Catholics who knowingly reject Jesus' righteousness are spared? No.

Maybe your brother didn't understand the Roman Catholic teaching rejecting the righteousness of Christ being imputed to the believer, or maybe he recanted before he died. Who knows? I am hesitant to speculate on the fate of any individual because I don't know what they may have experienced at the last moment of their earthly existence.

However, those who hope in something other than Jesus' righteousness are wrong, and the repercussions of this can be severe. Romans 11 witnesses to this. Even God's chosen nation, Israel, isn't exempt from this only source of righteousness, received through imputation.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,010
529
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#31
Let not forget, most protestan declare bible as the source of the doctrine

Catholic, bible+ tradition+ magister

The very foundation is different how you build same building?

You can not build circle shape building If the foundation is rectangle

Even among protestant that declare have same foundation (bible) there are many doctrine
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,213
745
113
#32
Matthew 7:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

There are people Honestly call God and this people follow the teaching of the Lotd.

There are people call Jesus Lord but not honest. Catholic call Jesus Lord, but teach Allah, islam God is Abraham God.

Real Abraham God teach us Jesus is God

Islam God teach Jesus not God

If Allah = Christian God, than God is Lie either to Christian or muslim
Hi Jackson!

Let's talk about this for a moment. You are saying that the Catholic Church teaches that the God of Abraham said that Jesus was not God?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,010
529
113
#33
Hi Jackson!

Let's talk about this for a moment. You are saying that the Catholic Church teaches that the God of Abraham said that Jesus was not God?
I say catholic believe we share God with muslim, It state in catholic dogma lumen gentium II/16/126

126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all thing

And muslim God say Jesus is not God
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,845
562
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#34
If it's any consolation, Martin Luther was a Catholic priest, and during the time he was an active and official priest, he had a personal conversion.

People do find the gospel, and find a personal and biblical conversion, regardless of their current circumstances, education, or vocation.

Your brother's situation is something only he and God can know.
I am an extremely adamant protestant... but I still feel confident in that assertion.

Your brother's situation is something only he and God can know.

.
Well said, I could not say it better!

While I am well aware of the doctrinal and practical heresy of the Catholic church, I will not stand in judgement of your brother.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,010
529
113
#35
Hi Jackson!

Let's talk about this for a moment. You are saying that the Catholic Church teaches that the God of Abraham said that Jesus was not God?
I say catholic believe we share God with muslim, It state in catholic dogma lumen gentium II/16/126

126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all thing

And muslim God say Jesus is not G
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,213
745
113
#36
I say catholic believe we share God with muslim, It state in catholic dogma lumen gentium II/16/126

126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all thing

And muslim God say Jesus is not God
I think what this is saying if that Muslims seek to worship the one true God. It isn't saying that they agree with everything the Muslims teach.

It's the same idea as Paul is talking about to the Athenians
Acts 17: 23. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you.

It doesn't mean that everything the Athenians thought about this unknown God was true.

Acts 17: 28. 'For in him we live, and move, and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also his offspring.'
 
Sep 6, 2014
4,387
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bereanbeacon.org
#37
My sincere condolences to you and your family sir.

My Dad, a Roman Catholic his whole life, like your brother, passed away about 4 months after your brother Mr. Dolan did.

We don't know if they were saved in the last hour by trusting solely in Jesus Christ and His Word, so we can't say with certainty whether they ended up in hell, or made it to paradise upon their demise. We can only hope they were granted repentance in those moments.

So many doctrinal errors in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that stand in direct opposition of Biblical truth, the Holy Scriptures, and the Great and All Holy God we serve.

Again, my sincere condolences to you and your family sir.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,213
745
113
#38
I say catholic believe we share God with muslim, It state in catholic dogma lumen gentium II/16/126

126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all thing

And muslim God say Jesus is not G
Hi again!

This is what Catholics believe about Jesus
We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,010
529
113
#39
I think what this is saying if that Muslims seek to worship the one true God. It isn't saying that they agree with everything the Muslims teach.

It's the same idea as Paul is talking about to the Athenians
Acts 17: 23. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you.

It doesn't mean that everything the Athenians thought about this unknown God was true.

Acts 17: 28. 'For in him we live, and move, and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also his offspring.'
It say:

But the plan of salvation include.......... muslim,

It do not say If they believe Jesus is God. Catholic know muslim do not believe Jesus God,
And catholic know jew do not believe that Jesus is God

Why catholic say muslim worship Abraham's God. This is mislead.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
7,010
529
113
#40
Hi again!

This is what Catholics believe about Jesus
We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father.
Not every body that state Jesus is God believe It. Some people say to make look like

Believe in Jesus mean believe in His teaching.

Some time pope believe Atheist that do not believe in Jesus may go to heaven

https://charterforcompassion.org/un...-don-t-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven

So I do not think catholic believe Jesus teaching, It may believe some of Jesus teaching but not all