If "Soul Sleep" Is Correct Doctrine?

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Dec 21, 2020
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#41
Do you really know what those verses are teaching?
Yes.

The first verse corresponds to "The wages of sin is death". But there are two deaths: (1) the separation of the soul and spirit from the body and (2) the eternal separation of the unsaved from God in the Lake of Fire. "This is the second death".
I believe death means death, not “separation,” unless you mean separated from life. Everyone dies the first death (except those who are alive when the rapture happens), the unsaved will die the second death, and be gone.

In Matthew 10:28 "destroy" does not mean "annihilate" but "eternal ruin" which is eternal damnation. Unfortunately Thayer stops short with "eternal misery" rather than "eternal damnation".

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 615: ἀποκτείνω (apokteinó)
2. metaphorically, to extinguish, abolish: τήν ἐχτραν, Ephesians 2:16; to inflict moral death, Romans 7:11 (see ἀποθνῄσκω, II. 2); to deprive of spiritual life and procure eternal misery, 2 Corinthians 3:6 (Lachmann ἀποκταινει; see above)
.
I think “extinguish, abolish” covers it pretty well. The unsaved will be “cut off.”
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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#42
.
Matt 10:28 . . And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill
the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in
Hell.

The Greek word translated "destroy" doesn't necessarily indicate something
removed from existence. For example Matt 2:13 where the same word is
used in foretelling Herod's intent to go after baby Jesus. (cf. Matt 2:16)

When they demolish one of the old casinos in Las Vegas, the building loses
its original shape and form but continues to exist as rubble. And though
people's bodies are on track to be destroyed in Hell; their remains will
continue to exist as nourishment for an unusual species of fire-proof worm.

Isa 66:22-24 . . From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to
another, all mankind will come and bow down before me-- speaks the Lord.
And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled
against Me: their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they
will be loathsome to all mankind.

That rather ghastly scene depicts a sort of tourist attraction similar to the La
Brea Tar Pits museum in Los Angeles where the remains of prehistoric
creatures are on display; excavated from ancient asphalt deposits, .

A worm that thrives in brimstone is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable.
The four-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176°
Fahrenheit; hot enough to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if
God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him
to create worms that like it even warmer.
_
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#43
Well, there is a literal doctrine called “soul sleep” and it’s multifaceted and covers more than just the idea of sleeping souls.

However, souls that can take a rest is a Biblically viable idea and resting may involve taking a nap.

Revelation 6
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#44
.
If there is such a thing as soul sleep, I won't know it; here's why:

I've been under anesthesia once for appendicitis, twice for hernias, once for
a scalp lump, once for a kidney stone, twice for total knee replacements,
once for a colonoscopy, once for an endoscopy, and once for lung cancer.


In none of those procedures was I aware of the passage of time. The very
moment I went under was simultaneous with awakening. So if soul sleep is
like that, I'll be in Heaven as if I went from here to there in less than a
second of time on the clock, i.e. instantaneously. The same can be said for
folks on track for the wrong side of things.
_
I tend to agree with your estimation.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
6,031
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#45
I tend to agree with your estimation.
I'm hestitate to agree since, experientially he went from asleep to awake instanteously, but, indeed, was out cold for a time.
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#46
What rubbish. Citing an ex-SDA (again? *sigh*) Why bother with citing someone who, obviously, has never really read the text in question with honesty, neither studied the words and their contexts:
Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!​

Isaiah, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, is providing a "proverb" (a parable, H4912), or language that is symbolic.

Surely, the author of your terribly mistaken 'blog' (the obvious place for real Bible knowledge, of course - *rolls eyes*), does not think that trees speak Hebrew (English)?

Isa 14:8 גם־ברושׁים שׂמחו לך ארזי לבנון מאז שׁכבת לא־יעלה הכרת עלינו׃​
Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.​

Furthermore, Isaiah 14:9 does not say in Hebrew or English "spirits of the dead". It plainly reads:

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.​
Isa 14:9 שׁאול מתחת רגזה לך לקראת בואך עורר לך רפאים כל־עתודי ארץ הקים מכסאותם כל מלכי גוים׃​

H5782, "עורר" means to arouse (as like to awaken) or stir up in movement

H9009, "לך" is a prefix meaning, to, for, towards, belonging to, in regard to, according to, in; and the latter part is merely a gramatical suffix.

H7496, "רפאים", means 'the deceased', as for instance in Job 26:5, refers to the dead buried beneath the ocean, from the time of Noah's flood. They aren't conscientiously "alive", but dead in sleep, until their respective resurrection as Job says (Job 14, etc).

dead, 7​
Job_26:5, Psa_88:10, Pro_9:18 (2), Pro_21:16, Isa_14:9, Isa_26:19​
deceased, 1​
Isa_26:14​

Notice, Psalms 88:10's perfect parallelism, citing H7496, with H4191 "the dead" (part a):

Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.​

Notice, Isaiah 26:19, a prophecy about the special resurrection that takes place with Jesus' own resurrection:

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.​

Firstfruits/Wavesheaf at the time of Jesus' Resurrection around Jerusalem by JEHOVAH Elohiym - Matthew 27:50-53, 28:1-4; Isaiah 26:19; (for Jesus, see also Psalms 40:6; Hebrews 10:5; Galatians 4:4); Psalms 68:8,17-21 (vs 21., see Genesis 3:15); compare Psalms 68:18 to Ephesians 4:8-10; Compare Leviticus 23:9-14; 15-22 (Firstfruits) to 1 Corinthians 15:21-23. See also Psalms 24:1-10 (Triumphal Entry with Victory Train into New Jerusalem above), with Psalms 98:1-3; Colossians 2:15. See also Acts 1.

Isaiah 14 is about the "king of Babylon", ie the devil (Lucifer; Isaiah 14:12), the real authority behind the scenes ruling from the "throne of iniquity" (Psalms 94:20, "satan's seat" (Revelation 2:13)) and his downfall, and final end (Revelation 20).

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.​

This refers to the dead (deceased kings), lying in 'state', in their mausoleums. They aren't alive. They're dead and lying flat on their back in their tombs (Isaiah 14:20, "burial").

Isa 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.​
Satan's final reward:

Isa 14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.​
Isa 14:9 KJV - 9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Isaiah 14:1-11 is about a human going to the grave, not satan.

Pro 21:16 KJV - 16 The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.

<img> https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1675789991</img>
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#47
.
Below is a list of passages wherein the Greek word apollumi indicates life is
taken rather than removing someone from existence.

» Matt 2:13
» Matt 12:14
» Matt 26:52
» Matt 27:20
» Mark 9:22
» Luke 6:9
» Like 11:51
» Luke 15:17
» Luke 17:27
» John 10:28
» John 18:14
» 1Cor 10:9-10
» 2Pet 3:6
» Jude 1:5

* There are folks out there-- e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses --who sincerely
believe human life is entirely physical so that when people die, they cease to
exist; which means of course that their resurrection process doesn't restore
people's corpse to life, rather, they believe resurrection is an act of creation
that starts people all over again: a process somewhat similar to reincarnation.
_
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#49
What rubbish. Citing an ex-SDA (again? *sigh*) Why bother with citing someone who, obviously, has never really read the text in question with honesty, neither studied the words and their contexts:
Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!​

Isaiah, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, is providing a "proverb" (a parable, H4912), or language that is symbolic.

Surely, the author of your terribly mistaken 'blog' (the obvious place for real Bible knowledge, of course - *rolls eyes*), does not think that trees speak Hebrew (English)?

Isa 14:8 גם־ברושׁים שׂמחו לך ארזי לבנון מאז שׁכבת לא־יעלה הכרת עלינו׃​
Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.​

Furthermore, Isaiah 14:9 does not say in Hebrew or English "spirits of the dead". It plainly reads:

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.​
Isa 14:9 שׁאול מתחת רגזה לך לקראת בואך עורר לך רפאים כל־עתודי ארץ הקים מכסאותם כל מלכי גוים׃​

H5782, "עורר" means to arouse (as like to awaken) or stir up in movement

H9009, "לך" is a prefix meaning, to, for, towards, belonging to, in regard to, according to, in; and the latter part is merely a gramatical suffix.

H7496, "רפאים", means 'the deceased', as for instance in Job 26:5, refers to the dead buried beneath the ocean, from the time of Noah's flood. They aren't conscientiously "alive", but dead in sleep, until their respective resurrection as Job says (Job 14, etc).

dead, 7​
Job_26:5, Psa_88:10, Pro_9:18 (2), Pro_21:16, Isa_14:9, Isa_26:19​
deceased, 1​
Isa_26:14​

Notice, Psalms 88:10's perfect parallelism, citing H7496, with H4191 "the dead" (part a):

Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.​

Notice, Isaiah 26:19, a prophecy about the special resurrection that takes place with Jesus' own resurrection:

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.​

Firstfruits/Wavesheaf at the time of Jesus' Resurrection around Jerusalem by JEHOVAH Elohiym - Matthew 27:50-53, 28:1-4; Isaiah 26:19; (for Jesus, see also Psalms 40:6; Hebrews 10:5; Galatians 4:4); Psalms 68:8,17-21 (vs 21., see Genesis 3:15); compare Psalms 68:18 to Ephesians 4:8-10; Compare Leviticus 23:9-14; 15-22 (Firstfruits) to 1 Corinthians 15:21-23. See also Psalms 24:1-10 (Triumphal Entry with Victory Train into New Jerusalem above), with Psalms 98:1-3; Colossians 2:15. See also Acts 1.

Isaiah 14 is about the "king of Babylon", ie the devil (Lucifer; Isaiah 14:12), the real authority behind the scenes ruling from the "throne of iniquity" (Psalms 94:20, "satan's seat" (Revelation 2:13)) and his downfall, and final end (Revelation 20).

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.​

This refers to the dead (deceased kings), lying in 'state', in their mausoleums. They aren't alive. They're dead and lying flat on their back in their tombs (Isaiah 14:20, "burial").

Isa 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.​
Satan's final reward:

Isa 14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.​
The claim that Isaiah 14 is about Satan came a long time after Isaiah wrote. https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-taught-that-isaiah-14-is-about-satan.209607/
 

TheLearner

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#50
Yes.


I believe death means death, not “separation,” unless you mean separated from life. Everyone dies the first death (except those who are alive when the rapture happens), the unsaved will die the second death, and be gone.


I think “extinguish, abolish” covers it pretty well. The unsaved will be “cut off.”
James 2:26
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#51
.
Below is a list of passages wherein the Greek word apollumi indicates life is
taken rather than removing someone from existence.


» Matt 2:13
» Matt 12:14
» Matt 26:52
» Matt 27:20
» Mark 9:22
» Luke 6:9
» Like 11:51
» Luke 15:17
» Luke 17:27
» John 10:28
» John 18:14
» 1Cor 10:9-10
» 2Pet 3:6
» Jude 1:5


* There are folks out there-- e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses --who sincerely
believe human life is entirely physical so that when people die, they cease to
exist; which means of course that their resurrection process doesn't restore
people's corpse to life, rather, they believe resurrection is an act of creation
that starts people all over again: a process somewhat similar to reincarnation.
_
If the JW's are right, then God has no reason to judge anyone because, if he does recreate people they would be like Adam before the fall. Since, God is able to forget people's sins in the below texts, he is able to forget all wrongs upon recreateding people.

Think about it, if something goes out of existence, God creates a new person or something than like "all is good" in Genesis, all will be good again.

Jeremiah 31:34
None of them will have to teach a neighbor to know the Lord, because all will know me, from the least to the greatest. I will forgive their sins and I will no longer remember their wrongs. I, the Lord, have spoken.”

Hebrews 8:12
I will forgive their sins and will no longer remember their wrongs.”
 

ButterflyJones

Active member
Feb 5, 2023
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#52
He meant "Today you will be with me in paradise".
Jesus was speaking of the moment,today, as that means ment when he assured the believing thief he would be with Jesus in paradise. Not that on that very day this would occur.

I think there is a mistaken impression regarding the biblical teaching about our death, soul sleep.

Often when people died before the eyes of those who witnessed their demise early people thought it looked as if they fell asleep.

I think if we recall the judgement of God as described in Revelation we might find it odd to think we go to heaven after our death and then will later be brought back before God and judged so to find out where we spend eternity.

"Then he [Stephen] knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, 'Lord do not charge them with this sin.' And when he had said this, he fell asleep. " Acts 7
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,601
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#53
The claim that Isaiah 14 is about Satan came a long time after Isaiah wrote.
Since you did not live at that time, or in any of the intervening centuries, how are you so sure that this is true? It is not merely "a claim". It is divine revelation to those who have ears to hear.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
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#54
...I think there is a mistaken impression regarding the biblical teaching about our death, soul sleep...
Precious friend, my own Scriptural study of: ‘Confusion’ of What Death Is…

...solved for Comfort (and, hopefully eliminating 'mistaken impressions')
by "What Saith ALL The Scriptures?" on This Important Doctrine:

man/woman/child = a tripartite/trichotomous being?:

"And the very God of Peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray​
God your Whole spirit and soul and body be preserved​
blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."​
(1 Thessalonians 5:23; Comfort 2 Corinthians 1:3-4)​
A Divider/Discerner of the [internal] TWO:

"For The Word of God Is Quick, and Powerful, and Sharper
Than any twoedged sword, Piercing Even To The Dividing
Asunder Of soul AND spirit, and of the joints and marrow,​
And Is A Discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
(Hebrews 4:12)​
Death?:

"...the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26)​

1) When the body is dead, it becomes ignorant and hence
"knows not anything" (Ecc 9:5), "returning to dust" (Ecc 12:7):

2) "the spirit returns (from the body) back to God Who Gave it" (Ecc 12:7)

What about "the soul"? Some think it disappears into nothingness/annihilation - huh? But:

What Saith The Scriptures?:

3) "the soul departs" (Gen 35:16-19):
a) Jesus Clearly Taught UNbelievers' souls go to the "place of​
torment, having vision, speech, feeling, and remembering everything"​
(Luk 16:19-31) "across the great fixed gulf":​
b) Believers (previously) went to "paradise (in the earth) = Abraham's bosom" - Confirmed:
b1) Jesus, Just Before HIS Death, Clearly Said [to the repentant thief]​
"Today thou Shalt BE WITH ME In Paradise!" (Luke 23:43) - Confirmed by:​
b2) "I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?​
God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen:​
OT living souls departed and "gathered Unto their own people!":

"And thou shalt go [living soul that departs] to thy fathers in peace;​
thou shalt be buried [dead body] in a good old age." (Genesis 15:15)​
"Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old​
man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. And his sons​
Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field​
of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;"​
(Genesis 25:8-9)​
"And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his
people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob​
buried him." (Genesis 35:29)​
Jacob (v 1):

"And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered Unto
my people [living soul]: bury me with my fathers [dead body] in the​
cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite," (Genesis 49:29)​
So, the critics will argue that the 'dead body' "buried with fathers" =
"gathered with their people" (changing The 'order of God's above Scriptural
Passages'), and thus, 'making the soul NON-existant,' Correct?:

What Saith The Scriptures?:

"And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he
gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and
was gathered unto his people
." (Genesis 49:33)
↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑
IMMEDIATELY his "living soul departed to paradise in Abraham's bosom!"
Correct?
+
Further Confirmed BY:


b3) The prophet Samuel's [dead body] was buried Nowhere Near his father
Abraham's in "the cave of Machpelah," Correct? So that Cannot be the
critic's theory "gathered to his fathers/people," right?

"And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and​
lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah." (1 Samuel 25:1)​
Further Confirmed by King Saul "disturbing 'Samuel's rest,' asking the
witch at Endor to "call up Samuel from the dead" (1 Samuel 28:7-20)

Again, critics complain that this is a "demon (one of the gods 'ascending out
of the earth'" [ theory ] that "appeared to the witch and Saul." huh? The witch
"identified him as Samuel." Did she lie?

Now, it is possible demons might know this, from the past?:
"Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst​
his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this​
thing unto thee this day." (1 Samuel 28:18)​

But, how in heaven’s name, did God Give demons the "gift of prophecy," to
predict the future?:

"Moreover The LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand​
of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me:​
The LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the​
Philistines." (1 Samuel 28:19)​

Uh, sorry, NO theoretical 'future-predicting demons' were in Paradise, So
"after Samuel went back to
resting In Paradise," the next day, Saul and
Jonathon were killed in battle, AND "gathered Unto their people," WITH
Samuel, "As Prophesied," Correct?

b4) In the future, John saw:
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the​
[living] souls of them that were slain [dead bodies] for The Word​
of God, and for the testimony which they held" (Revelation 6:9)​
"...cried out with loud voice...Given white robes..." (vs 10-11)​
How, Exactly, is that 'nothingness/annihilation [no comfort],' when these
are "living and conscious," Correct?

Scriptures Get Even Better! = Very Comforting!!:

c) ...(But now), for believers, Under God's Grace!:

In Christ's Revelation Of The Mystery To Paul, He Teaches:
"For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN!" (Philippians 1:21)​
+
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to DEPART {soul},​
And To Be WITH CHRIST; which IS FAR BETTER!" (Philippians 1:23)​
+
"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who​
also hath given unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we are​
always Confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body,​
we are absent from The LORD: ( For we walk by faith, not by sight: )​
We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be Present With The LORD!" (2 Corinthians 5:5-8) Where?:​
"...Paradise in The Third Heaven!..." (2Co 12:1-4) = VERY Comforting, Correct?:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bears repeating! Correct?:

"I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?

God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen.

-------------------------------------- =========
LORD Jesus, thanks So Much for ALL Your Comforting Words. Amen.
------------------------------------------------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!
 
Feb 8, 2023
80
66
18
Still on earth !
#55
Precious friend, my own Scriptural study of: ‘Confusion’ of What Death Is…

...solved for Comfort (and, hopefully eliminating 'mistaken impressions')
by "What Saith ALL The Scriptures?" on This Important Doctrine:

man/woman/child = a tripartite/trichotomous being?:

"And the very God of Peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray​
God your Whole spirit and soul and body be preserved​
blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."​
(1 Thessalonians 5:23; Comfort 2 Corinthians 1:3-4)​
A Divider/Discerner of the [internal] TWO:

"For The Word of God Is Quick, and Powerful, and Sharper
Than any twoedged sword, Piercing Even To The Dividing
Asunder Of soul AND spirit, and of the joints and marrow,​
And Is A Discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
(Hebrews 4:12)​
Death?:

"...the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26)​

1) When the body is dead, it becomes ignorant and hence
"knows not anything" (Ecc 9:5), "returning to dust" (Ecc 12:7):

2) "the spirit returns (from the body) back to God Who Gave it" (Ecc 12:7)

What about "the soul"? Some think it disappears into nothingness/annihilation - huh? But:

What Saith The Scriptures?:

3) "the soul departs" (Gen 35:16-19):
a) Jesus Clearly Taught UNbelievers' souls go to the "place of​
torment, having vision, speech, feeling, and remembering everything"​
(Luk 16:19-31) "across the great fixed gulf":​
b) Believers (previously) went to "paradise (in the earth) = Abraham's bosom" - Confirmed:
b1) Jesus, Just Before HIS Death, Clearly Said [to the repentant thief]​
"Today thou Shalt BE WITH ME In Paradise!" (Luke 23:43) - Confirmed by:​
b2) "I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?​
God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen:​
OT living souls departed and "gathered Unto their own people!":

"And thou shalt go [living soul that departs] to thy fathers in peace;​
thou shalt be buried [dead body] in a good old age." (Genesis 15:15)​
"Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old​
man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. And his sons​
Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field​
of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;"​
(Genesis 25:8-9)​
"And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his
people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob​
buried him." (Genesis 35:29)​
Jacob (v 1):

"And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered Unto
my people [living soul]: bury me with my fathers [dead body] in the​
cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite," (Genesis 49:29)​
So, the critics will argue that the 'dead body' "buried with fathers" =
"gathered with their people" (changing The 'order of God's above Scriptural
Passages'), and thus, 'making the soul NON-existant,' Correct?:

What Saith The Scriptures?:

"And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he
gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and
was gathered unto his people
." (Genesis 49:33)
↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑
IMMEDIATELY his "living soul departed to paradise in Abraham's bosom!"
Correct?
+
Further Confirmed BY:


b3) The prophet Samuel's [dead body] was buried Nowhere Near his father
Abraham's in "the cave of Machpelah," Correct? So that Cannot be the
critic's theory "gathered to his fathers/people," right?

"And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and​
lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah." (1 Samuel 25:1)​
Further Confirmed by King Saul "disturbing 'Samuel's rest,' asking the
witch at Endor to "call up Samuel from the dead" (1 Samuel 28:7-20)

Again, critics complain that this is a "demon (one of the gods 'ascending out
of the earth'" [ theory ] that "appeared to the witch and Saul." huh? The witch
"identified him as Samuel." Did she lie?

Now, it is possible demons might know this, from the past?:
"Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst​
his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this​
thing unto thee this day." (1 Samuel 28:18)​

But, how in heaven’s name, did God Give demons the "gift of prophecy," to
predict the future?:

"Moreover The LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand​
of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me:​
The LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the​
Philistines." (1 Samuel 28:19)​

Uh, sorry, NO theoretical 'future-predicting demons' were in Paradise, So
"after Samuel went back to
resting In Paradise," the next day, Saul and
Jonathon were killed in battle, AND "gathered Unto their people," WITH
Samuel, "As Prophesied," Correct?

b4) In the future, John saw:
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the​
[living] souls of them that were slain [dead bodies] for The Word​
of God, and for the testimony which they held" (Revelation 6:9)​
"...cried out with loud voice...Given white robes..." (vs 10-11)​
How, Exactly, is that 'nothingness/annihilation [no comfort],' when these
are "living and conscious," Correct?

Scriptures Get Even Better! = Very Comforting!!:

c) ...(But now), for believers, Under God's Grace!:

In Christ's Revelation Of The Mystery To Paul, He Teaches:
"For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN!" (Philippians 1:21)​
+
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to DEPART {soul},​
And To Be WITH CHRIST; which IS FAR BETTER!" (Philippians 1:23)​
+
"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who​
also hath given unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we are​
always Confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body,​
we are absent from The LORD: ( For we walk by faith, not by sight: )​
We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be Present With The LORD!" (2 Corinthians 5:5-8) Where?:​
"...Paradise in The Third Heaven!..." (2Co 12:1-4) = VERY Comforting, Correct?:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bears repeating! Correct?:

"I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?

God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen.

-------------------------------------- =========
LORD Jesus, thanks So Much for ALL Your Comforting Words. Amen.
------------------------------------------------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!

Awesome & Amen !
' Nuff said...to me anyways.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,908
1,457
113
67
Brighton, MI
#57
Since you did not live at that time, or in any of the intervening centuries, how are you so sure that this is true? It is not merely "a claim". It is divine revelation to those who have ears to hear.
I am an historian and I gave you the sources of information.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,908
1,457
113
67
Brighton, MI
#58
Precious friend, my own Scriptural study of: ‘Confusion’ of What Death Is…

...solved for Comfort (and, hopefully eliminating 'mistaken impressions')
by "What Saith ALL The Scriptures?" on This Important Doctrine:

man/woman/child = a tripartite/trichotomous being?:

"And the very God of Peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray​
God your Whole spirit and soul and body be preserved​
blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."​
(1 Thessalonians 5:23; Comfort 2 Corinthians 1:3-4)​
A Divider/Discerner of the [internal] TWO:

"For The Word of God Is Quick, and Powerful, and Sharper
Than any twoedged sword, Piercing Even To The Dividing
Asunder Of soul AND spirit, and of the joints and marrow,​
And Is A Discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
(Hebrews 4:12)​
Death?:

"...the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26)​

1) When the body is dead, it becomes ignorant and hence
"knows not anything" (Ecc 9:5), "returning to dust" (Ecc 12:7):

2) "the spirit returns (from the body) back to God Who Gave it" (Ecc 12:7)

What about "the soul"? Some think it disappears into nothingness/annihilation - huh? But:

What Saith The Scriptures?:

3) "the soul departs" (Gen 35:16-19):
a) Jesus Clearly Taught UNbelievers' souls go to the "place of​
torment, having vision, speech, feeling, and remembering everything"​
(Luk 16:19-31) "across the great fixed gulf":​
b) Believers (previously) went to "paradise (in the earth) = Abraham's bosom" - Confirmed:
b1) Jesus, Just Before HIS Death, Clearly Said [to the repentant thief]​
"Today thou Shalt BE WITH ME In Paradise!" (Luke 23:43) - Confirmed by:​
b2) "I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?​
God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen:​
OT living souls departed and "gathered Unto their own people!":

"And thou shalt go [living soul that departs] to thy fathers in peace;​
thou shalt be buried [dead body] in a good old age." (Genesis 15:15)​
"Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old​
man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. And his sons​
Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field​
of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;"​
(Genesis 25:8-9)​
"And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his
people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob​
buried him." (Genesis 35:29)​
Jacob (v 1):

"And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered Unto
my people [living soul]: bury me with my fathers [dead body] in the​
cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite," (Genesis 49:29)​
So, the critics will argue that the 'dead body' "buried with fathers" =
"gathered with their people" (changing The 'order of God's above Scriptural
Passages'), and thus, 'making the soul NON-existant,' Correct?:

What Saith The Scriptures?:

"And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he
gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and
was gathered unto his people
." (Genesis 49:33)
↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑ ↑ ↓ ↑
IMMEDIATELY his "living soul departed to paradise in Abraham's bosom!"
Correct?
+
Further Confirmed BY:


b3) The prophet Samuel's [dead body] was buried Nowhere Near his father
Abraham's in "the cave of Machpelah," Correct? So that Cannot be the
critic's theory "gathered to his fathers/people," right?

"And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and​
lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah." (1 Samuel 25:1)​
Further Confirmed by King Saul "disturbing 'Samuel's rest,' asking the
witch at Endor to "call up Samuel from the dead" (1 Samuel 28:7-20)

Again, critics complain that this is a "demon (one of the gods 'ascending out
of the earth'" [ theory ] that "appeared to the witch and Saul." huh? The witch
"identified him as Samuel." Did she lie?

Now, it is possible demons might know this, from the past?:
"Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst​
his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this​
thing unto thee this day." (1 Samuel 28:18)​

But, how in heaven’s name, did God Give demons the "gift of prophecy," to
predict the future?:

"Moreover The LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand​
of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me:​
The LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the​
Philistines." (1 Samuel 28:19)​

Uh, sorry, NO theoretical 'future-predicting demons' were in Paradise, So
"after Samuel went back to
resting In Paradise," the next day, Saul and
Jonathon were killed in battle, AND "gathered Unto their people," WITH
Samuel, "As Prophesied," Correct?

b4) In the future, John saw:
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the​
[living] souls of them that were slain [dead bodies] for The Word​
of God, and for the testimony which they held" (Revelation 6:9)​
"...cried out with loud voice...Given white robes..." (vs 10-11)​
How, Exactly, is that 'nothingness/annihilation [no comfort],' when these
are "living and conscious," Correct?

Scriptures Get Even Better! = Very Comforting!!:

c) ...(But now), for believers, Under God's Grace!:

In Christ's Revelation Of The Mystery To Paul, He Teaches:
"For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN!" (Philippians 1:21)​
+
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to DEPART {soul},​
And To Be WITH CHRIST; which IS FAR BETTER!" (Philippians 1:23)​
+
"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who​
also hath given unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we are​
always Confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body,​
we are absent from The LORD: ( For we walk by faith, not by sight: )​
We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be Present With The LORD!" (2 Corinthians 5:5-8) Where?:​
"...Paradise in The Third Heaven!..." (2Co 12:1-4) = VERY Comforting, Correct?:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bears repeating! Correct?:

"I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?

God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen.

-------------------------------------- =========
LORD Jesus, thanks So Much for ALL Your Comforting Words. Amen.
------------------------------------------------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!
too long, this will come back to bite me. Maybe we need to use short posts.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#59
I believe Paradise is synonymous with Abraham's Bosom, and still exists to this day.

The Saved 'rest' there until the Marriage Supper.
I wonder are you aware of how few have come to thus understanding? I'm making note of you your very impressive