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....or why you left them out.
He even pointed you to rev 19.
The bride consists of Jewish and gentile believers gathered pretrib,and during the GT.
The 144 k are virgins,and the gathering of rev 14 is most likely Jews.
As for your wall being a bride,that is descriptive,pointing to the preciousness of his glorious city.
....he does not marry a wall.
He even pointed you to rev 19.
The bride consists of Jewish and gentile believers gathered pretrib,and during the GT.
The 144 k are virgins,and the gathering of rev 14 is most likely Jews.
As for your wall being a bride,that is descriptive,pointing to the preciousness of his glorious city.
....he does not marry a wall.
Hello Wall,
The Church is the bride of Christ, which is made up of both Jew and Gentile.
"I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him." (2 Cor.11:2)
Interesting how you left off the rest of the scripture, which says:
" The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."The new Jerusalem has the names of the twelve tribes of Israel written on the gates and the names of the twelve apostles representing the church, which are written on the foundations of the city. The twenty four elders introduced in chapter 4 are representing the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles are representing the church. The new Jerusalem itself is not the bride of Christ, but those who will dwell in it.
The bride/church is seen receiving her fine linen, white and clean at the wedding of the Lamb, as seen below:
"Hallelujah!For our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”
The wedding of the Lamb would be related to his Church made up of both Jew and Gentile. I agree that the nation Israel is referred to as the wife, but that may be related to Israel's relationship to the Father, where believer's in Christ are not yet the wife, but the bride.
Wall, since when is the church made up of only Gentiles?
"Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)—remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility."
The church is made up of both Jew and Gentile, all belonging to the body of Christ.
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.[/quote]
The Church is the bride of Christ, which is made up of both Jew and Gentile.
"I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him." (2 Cor.11:2)
Interesting how you left off the rest of the scripture, which says:
" The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."The new Jerusalem has the names of the twelve tribes of Israel written on the gates and the names of the twelve apostles representing the church, which are written on the foundations of the city. The twenty four elders introduced in chapter 4 are representing the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles are representing the church. The new Jerusalem itself is not the bride of Christ, but those who will dwell in it.
The bride/church is seen receiving her fine linen, white and clean at the wedding of the Lamb, as seen below:
"Hallelujah!For our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”
The wedding of the Lamb would be related to his Church made up of both Jew and Gentile. I agree that the nation Israel is referred to as the wife, but that may be related to Israel's relationship to the Father, where believer's in Christ are not yet the wife, but the bride.
Wall, since when is the church made up of only Gentiles?
"Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)—remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility."
The church is made up of both Jew and Gentile, all belonging to the body of Christ.
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.[/quote]
The dead do indeed rise first. Paul was not wrong. The GT is not found in Rev 14:14-15. The GT is over before Rev 14 starts. Jesus returns after the GT as He Himself teaches in Mat 24:29-31. Therefore when Jesus is seen on the Mount of Olives at the start of Rev 14, the GT is over. Israel has been taken over and Jesus retakes it with the 144K.
Paul teaches concerning the Resurrection each in their own order, 1) Christ, the firstfruits, 2) Afterward, those who are Christ's at His (God's) coming. Now here's the important part, "THEN COMES THE END." It doesn't say, "THEN COMES THE TRIBULATION."
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
Then comes the end, not then comes the Tribulation.
GREAT TRIBULATION (of Israel) IS OVER
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven.
CHRIST IS NOW ON EARTH
Rev 14: Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.
Tribulation is over as Mat 24:29-31 tells us.
CHRIST REIGNS AND DEFEATS ALL ENEMIES FOR 1,000 YEARS
Rev 20: And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
SATAN RELEASED TO SURROUND ISRAEL
Dan 12: “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time.
- notice there is no mention of "nor shall ever be as this is the end."
Rev 20: [SUP]7 [/SUP]Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison [SUP]8 [/SUP]and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. [SUP]9 [/SUP]They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
GOD RETURNS
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
RESURRECTION (LAST DAY):
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Dan 12: [SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
CHRIST RAISES UP DEAD TO MEET GOD IN THE AIR (ON LAST DAY):
John 6: [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” [SUP]44 [/SUP]No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. [SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:[SUP] 23 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” [SUP]24 [/SUP]Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
Jesus tells us 4 TIMES that the resurrection is on the LAST DAY. He never locates it before the Great Tribulation of Israel. Please explain to me how the resurrection which happens just before the Rapture can happen before the Tribulation? Is the day before the Tribulation the LAST DAY? Is it? I see plenty of days left including 1,000 years.
Paul teaches concerning the Resurrection each in their own order, 1) Christ, the firstfruits, 2) Afterward, those who are Christ's at His (God's) coming. Now here's the important part, "THEN COMES THE END." It doesn't say, "THEN COMES THE TRIBULATION."
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
Then comes the end, not then comes the Tribulation.
GREAT TRIBULATION (of Israel) IS OVER
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven.
CHRIST IS NOW ON EARTH
Rev 14: Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.
Tribulation is over as Mat 24:29-31 tells us.
CHRIST REIGNS AND DEFEATS ALL ENEMIES FOR 1,000 YEARS
Rev 20: And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
SATAN RELEASED TO SURROUND ISRAEL
Dan 12: “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time.
- notice there is no mention of "nor shall ever be as this is the end."
Rev 20: [SUP]7 [/SUP]Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison [SUP]8 [/SUP]and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. [SUP]9 [/SUP]They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
GOD RETURNS
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
RESURRECTION (LAST DAY):
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Dan 12: [SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
CHRIST RAISES UP DEAD TO MEET GOD IN THE AIR (ON LAST DAY):
John 6: [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” [SUP]44 [/SUP]No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. [SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:[SUP] 23 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” [SUP]24 [/SUP]Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
Jesus tells us 4 TIMES that the resurrection is on the LAST DAY. He never locates it before the Great Tribulation of Israel. Please explain to me how the resurrection which happens just before the Rapture can happen before the Tribulation? Is the day before the Tribulation the LAST DAY? Is it? I see plenty of days left including 1,000 years.
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Correct Ahwatukee, Mat 24 does not include the "Last Trumpet" just a great trumpet. The Last Trumpet is God's Trumpet and it is blown when God Himself returns.
Jesus GATHERS (His Elect) when He returns. There is no mention of Jesus transforming any living Saint upon His (Jesus') arrival. The transformation of the Living is associated with the Return of God and of God bringing the dead in Jesus which is also associated with the Last Trumpet.
_______________________________________________
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Who are the "THEY" and "THEM" underlined above? Before you answer that notice that the beheaded which John saw are souls, not resurrected beings. We see in the above that those called "they" and "them" are reigning and judging with Christ for 1,000 years. If we look back at Rev 5 we see who reigns on earth.
Rev 5:[SUP] 8 [/SUP]Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”
In the above passage we see that the four living creatures (Notice they are LIVING) and twenty-four elders are singing about reigning on earth.
Now please pay close attention. To reign, one has a throne to reign from, correct? Do we have any passage whereby all the martyred saints who didn't worship the beast each have a throne? I can't find such a passage. But I do find this.
Revelation 4:4
Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.
and this:
Revelation 11:16
And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God.
The 24 Elders sure have thrones.
Now if we look back at the LAST SUPPER we learn that the disciples will be judging and sitting on thrones. Clearly the 12 are part of the 24 Elders.
Luke 22: [SUP]28 [/SUP]“But you are those who have continued with Me in My trials. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, [SUP]30 [/SUP]that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
John is one of them so in Rev 20 John was writing about himself.
Jesus GATHERS (His Elect) when He returns. There is no mention of Jesus transforming any living Saint upon His (Jesus') arrival. The transformation of the Living is associated with the Return of God and of God bringing the dead in Jesus which is also associated with the Last Trumpet.
_______________________________________________
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Who are the "THEY" and "THEM" underlined above? Before you answer that notice that the beheaded which John saw are souls, not resurrected beings. We see in the above that those called "they" and "them" are reigning and judging with Christ for 1,000 years. If we look back at Rev 5 we see who reigns on earth.
Rev 5:[SUP] 8 [/SUP]Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”
In the above passage we see that the four living creatures (Notice they are LIVING) and twenty-four elders are singing about reigning on earth.
Now please pay close attention. To reign, one has a throne to reign from, correct? Do we have any passage whereby all the martyred saints who didn't worship the beast each have a throne? I can't find such a passage. But I do find this.
Revelation 4:4
Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.
and this:
Revelation 11:16
And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God.
The 24 Elders sure have thrones.
Now if we look back at the LAST SUPPER we learn that the disciples will be judging and sitting on thrones. Clearly the 12 are part of the 24 Elders.
Luke 22: [SUP]28 [/SUP]“But you are those who have continued with Me in My trials. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, [SUP]30 [/SUP]that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
John is one of them so in Rev 20 John was writing about himself.
R
There are many resurrections. okay where to start well Samuel was raised to Saul. Then there is the rapture and then Enoch and Elijah will be resurrected and then every person that has ever lived will be resurrected and stand before Jesus or is this verse a lie " that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord"
Hello wall,
No Wall! Matt.24:30-31 is not a resurrection of the church. First of all, according to 1 Thes.4:13-18, angels do not gather us. In Matt.24:30-31, the angels are gathering the living who will have made it through the time of God's wrath. According to the parable in Mt.13, at the end of the age the angels first gather the weeds, which is represents the son's of the evil one, then the wheat (son's of the kingdom) are gathered. It is the wheat who are being gathered in Mt.24:30-31, which is not a resurrection. If that was the church, it would mean that the church would go through the entire wrath of God and scripture already states that Jesus keeps us out of that time of tribulation. Mt.24:13 has nothing to do with 1 Thes.4:13-18 and 1 Cor.15:51-53. Mt.24 has to do specifically with Israel and the church is not even mentioned in that entire discourse and that because the church will have already been removed.
When reading the Olivet discourse, you need to understand who is being spoken of, which is Israel. This can be deduced by the fact that Jesus mentions the abomination that causes the desolation of Jerusalem/Judea and it being set up in the holy place within the temple. Also, Jesus makes reference to the hardship of those in Judea when they flee the area for them to pray that it not take place on the Sabbath or in the winter. This is all in reference to Israel and not the church. The rest of the world will surely be involved in that, the one who sets up the abomination will have authority over every tribe, people, nation and language, but the church is never mentioned.
During the time those events are taking place, God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be running parallel with them, which we are not appointed to suffer and that because Jesus already suffer the wrath that we deserve and thereby the wrath that we deserve as been satisfied. The church will be removed before the first seal is opened.
No Wall! Matt.24:30-31 is not a resurrection of the church. First of all, according to 1 Thes.4:13-18, angels do not gather us. In Matt.24:30-31, the angels are gathering the living who will have made it through the time of God's wrath. According to the parable in Mt.13, at the end of the age the angels first gather the weeds, which is represents the son's of the evil one, then the wheat (son's of the kingdom) are gathered. It is the wheat who are being gathered in Mt.24:30-31, which is not a resurrection. If that was the church, it would mean that the church would go through the entire wrath of God and scripture already states that Jesus keeps us out of that time of tribulation. Mt.24:13 has nothing to do with 1 Thes.4:13-18 and 1 Cor.15:51-53. Mt.24 has to do specifically with Israel and the church is not even mentioned in that entire discourse and that because the church will have already been removed.
When reading the Olivet discourse, you need to understand who is being spoken of, which is Israel. This can be deduced by the fact that Jesus mentions the abomination that causes the desolation of Jerusalem/Judea and it being set up in the holy place within the temple. Also, Jesus makes reference to the hardship of those in Judea when they flee the area for them to pray that it not take place on the Sabbath or in the winter. This is all in reference to Israel and not the church. The rest of the world will surely be involved in that, the one who sets up the abomination will have authority over every tribe, people, nation and language, but the church is never mentioned.
During the time those events are taking place, God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be running parallel with them, which we are not appointed to suffer and that because Jesus already suffer the wrath that we deserve and thereby the wrath that we deserve as been satisfied. The church will be removed before the first seal is opened.
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Hello RobbyEarl,
Just FYI, the word "Anastasis" translated "Resurrection" refers only to the bodily resurrection, i.e. when the spirit reenters the body and it stands up again. At the gathering of the church, the bodies of the dead in Christ will be raised and their spirits will reunited with those resurrected bodies which will be raised immortal and glorified bodies never to die again. Samuel's rising was not a resurrect and that because it had nothing to do with his body, but his spirit. Also, Enoch and Elijah have never died, but God took them, so that was not a resurrection either.
===========================================
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).
[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]
========================================================
Just FYI, the word "Anastasis" translated "Resurrection" refers only to the bodily resurrection, i.e. when the spirit reenters the body and it stands up again. At the gathering of the church, the bodies of the dead in Christ will be raised and their spirits will reunited with those resurrected bodies which will be raised immortal and glorified bodies never to die again. Samuel's rising was not a resurrect and that because it had nothing to do with his body, but his spirit. Also, Enoch and Elijah have never died, but God took them, so that was not a resurrection either.
===========================================
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).
[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]
========================================================
I agee. If Matt.24 is a resurrection scripture then the church will go thru the wrath of God. Where we disagree is that I believe God can protect us through the time of wrath {and thats what is found in scripture} and i guess you dont.
MATT.24 [29] IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with a GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and they SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, from one end of heaven to the other.
[FONT="] PROPHECY OF THE FOUR WINDS! It happens right after the tribulation period. On the Day of the Lord.
[/FONT][FONT="] EZEK.37 [9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the FOUR WINDS, O breath, and BREATHE UPON THESE SLAIN, THAT THEY MAY LIVE.[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, AN EXCEEDING GREAT ARMY.[11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, AND BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,[14] And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
PROPHECY OF THE FOUR WINDS! Clearly a resurrection scripture. The four winds that are prophesied will blow only once. There are only 2 general resurrections left according to the new testament. One at the 1Cor.15 event {called the rapture by many} and one at the great white throne. You claim Matt.24 is not a resurrection scripture but now you can easily see that it is. And they are not fliting off to heaven as the Rapturist claim but are takin to Israel
[/FONT]
MATT.24 [29] IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with a GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and they SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, from one end of heaven to the other.
[FONT="] PROPHECY OF THE FOUR WINDS! It happens right after the tribulation period. On the Day of the Lord.
[/FONT][FONT="] EZEK.37 [9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the FOUR WINDS, O breath, and BREATHE UPON THESE SLAIN, THAT THEY MAY LIVE.[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, AN EXCEEDING GREAT ARMY.[11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, AND BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,[14] And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
PROPHECY OF THE FOUR WINDS! Clearly a resurrection scripture. The four winds that are prophesied will blow only once. There are only 2 general resurrections left according to the new testament. One at the 1Cor.15 event {called the rapture by many} and one at the great white throne. You claim Matt.24 is not a resurrection scripture but now you can easily see that it is. And they are not fliting off to heaven as the Rapturist claim but are takin to Israel
[/FONT]
There is a deafing silence. Everyone probably still searching Rev.14 for a resurrection. Ive just read it over twice and can find nothing of a resurrection. Could you show me the Rev.14 scripture that points out a resurrection. Scripture only please. No long, drawn out, through a glass darkly explaination as to why. Just scripture please
Hello Ahwatukee or and Popeye
Niether one of you tried to explain away scriptures below.
1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -
ZEPH. 1 – voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -
ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
I understand why. Both of ya know there cant be 2 events where youll find Voice-Clouds-Trumpet-cry babies. So these 2 scriptures are speaking of the same event. The Day of the Lord.....which happens AFTER the tribulation period
Niether one of you tried to explain away scriptures below.
1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -
ZEPH. 1 – voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -
ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
I understand why. Both of ya know there cant be 2 events where youll find Voice-Clouds-Trumpet-cry babies. So these 2 scriptures are speaking of the same event. The Day of the Lord.....which happens AFTER the tribulation period