If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Was thinking the same thing about this link I shared with Jason today: Do Christians Sin?

It's strange, because it seems that if they felt so strongly about this issue - that they would want to read what this person has written - 'cause that individual sure spent a lot of time considering every angle that Jason and Ken have presented.
Your not really giving us any time to respond. I am also replying to the Anthology OSAS Book, too. Keeping busy already. I can't be in more than one place at a time. But I would be happy to refute the passage in that article.
 
W

WoundedWarrior

Guest
I have posted two verses in Scripture so far that they use wrongfully. I read the third verse and already have verses in mind that refute their false interpretation on it. So you would be accusing me falsely because I am reading thru it (at a very slow pace so as to address their wrong points in Scripture).
You try in vain.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
that is why I have him on ignore.

he bears false witness and denys it

He twists scripture. and refuses to acknowledge scripture which does not support his theory.

He hates on anyone who disagrees with him

He basis his whole theology on a few verses, and will always make the same faulty arguments which have been refuted so many times, our head would spin thinking about it.


it is a waste of time.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
You know, that book I posted addresses most of the Scriptures Jason (and Kenneth) continually use to justify their false belief.


They won't read it, though.

Funny how you continue to post falsehoods as I posted previously a little while back one of the things it falsely used in it.....

Telling people we did not read it even though Jason is posting things addressing what is said, and I posted awhile back on it as well. But by this response you completely overlooked all of that as usual, maybe step back take a breath and actually read what others are saying before making false statements.
 
W

WoundedWarrior

Guest
Your not really giving us any time to respond. I am also replying to the Anthology OSAS Book, too. Keeping busy already. I can't be in more than one place at a time. But I would be happy to refute the passage in that article.
Jason0047 said:
Your not really giving us any time to respond.
Actually, we're responding to you.

Jason0047 said:
But I would be happy to refute the passage in that article
Is that your goal, when hearing opinions that differ from your own? Instead of seeking to understand, you seek to prove or disprove?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
Funny how you continue to post falsehoods as I posted previously a little while back one of the things it falsely used in it.....

Telling people we did not read it even though Jason is posting things addressing what is said, and I posted awhile back on it as well. But by this response you completely overlooked all of that as usual, maybe step back take a breath and actually read what others are saying before making false statements.

You never read the whole book. Sorry, I just don't believe you.
 
W

WoundedWarrior

Guest
Funny how you continue to post falsehoods as I posted previously a little while back one of the things it falsely used in it.....

Telling people we did not read it even though Jason is posting things addressing what is said, and I posted awhile back on it as well. But by this response you completely overlooked all of that as usual, maybe step back take a breath and actually read what others are saying before making false statements.
No fruit(s) here either. How are you two not banned from CC?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
34
I'm starting to feel bad for Jason. Its like him versus the world, he is being bombarded with grace [teachings]. Lets just make sure we do it with meekness and respect when correcting him, otherwise we are hardening his heart to the truth. Lets not throw accusations and assumptions but just plainly reveal the Gospel of Grace in such a way that it gives him something to ponder.

Not saying this at anyone in particular but as a generic whole. We are presenting grace so lets do it gracefully.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
No fruit(s) here either. How are you two not banned from CC?
Well if they were to ban me they would have to ban 95% of you all as well, because those of the OSAS doctrine have done a lot more to me then post false statements.

I have found that at least half from the OSAS doctrine on here, pass false witness, judgmental, accusers, belittle, demean, and even go as far as condemn others.

I have not done any of the above and those who claim I have just do not like being called out on their sins, or misread what I wrote, or they do not understand the difference in rebuking, reproving from judging.

I would step back and stop pointing out others sinful ways if they would stop posting their false allegations against me first !!!
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
In regards to the recent article link:

Nowhere does 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 says practice sin. The Modern Versions have made this addition. Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 2 and Colossians 3 that we USED to be sinners sinners but we are not that way anymore.

1 John 3:8 says he that sins is of the devil. It does not say he that sins habitually is of the devil. It only takes one sin to be of the devil and not many sins. For Jesus rebuked Peter and called him the devil for not being in line with His way of thinking with him going to the cross. 1 John 3:10 says he that does not righteousness is not of God. For he that hates his brother is a murderer and we know no murderer has etermal life abiding within them.

1 John 1:8 is dealing with the gnostic believer who thought there was no such thing as sin. I grew up knowing someone who was a Christian Scientist. They believed sin did not exist. This is similar to the OSAS proponent and their belief today. They do not believe sin exists for them because they are forgiven of all sins past, present, and future. Sin does not exist for them on a spiritual level. Their belief is very similar to the gnostic belief. The way the OSAS proponent gets out of this is by saying they sin on a physical level but yet on a spiritual level they have no sin (Because Christ paid it all). But this denies the next verse. 1 John 1:9 follows 1 John 1:8. One is supposed to confess their sin in order to be forgiven of their sin. The OSAS proponent does not believe 1 John 1:9 is in relation to salvation but they think it has to do with merely a break in fellowship (While they are still saved). But the Scriptures say, he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). For you have to realize John was writing to the brethren and warning them about false deceivers (1 John 2:26). 1 John 2:4 and 1 John 1:6 is the context of 1 John 1:8.

As for Romans 7: Well, we have to ask ourselves: W
ho was Paul's audience? It was those believers who knew the law (i.e. the Law of Moses) (See Romans 7:1); For no doubt they were getting trippped up in the law of Moses by going back to it). This is the context because Paul mentions the topic of circumcision in Romans 2 (See Romans 2:25).

Now, do not misunderstand me. The Law or the Law of Moses is not the same thing as the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) or the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). James calls it the royal law. Paul says that what he had written should be considered as the Lord's Commandments.

The Law of Moses is of the Old Testament and it is no longer binding.
The Law of Christ is of the New Testament and it was put into effect with Christ's death.

We also learn Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is sold under sin and yet in Romans 8:2 he says he is free from sin. At the end of Romans 7 Paul gives us the solution to his struggle with sin.... who is Jesus Christ. This lets us know that in the bulk of Romans 7: Paul is speaking from his perspective as a Jew who kept the Law before he became a Christian. At the end of Romans 7 and in Romans 8 is when Paul is speaking from his experience as a Christian.
 
Last edited:

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
I have not done any of the above and those who claim I have just do not like being called out on their sins, or misread what I wrote, or they do not understand the difference in rebuking, reproving from judging.
So, what's good for the goose, isn't good for the gander?

I love how you slam us, and then make such excuses for your own behavior.

Your pride is off the charts.
 
W

WoundedWarrior

Guest
In regards to the recent article link:

Nowhere does 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 says practice sin. The Modern Versions have made this addition. Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 2 and Colossians 3 that we USED to be sinners sinners but we are not that way anymore.

1 John 3:8 says he that sins is of the devil. It does not say he that sins habitually is of the devil. It only takes one sin to be of the devil and not many sins. For Jesus rebuked Peter and called him the devil for not being in line with His way of thinking with him going to the cross. 1 John 3:10 says he that does not righteousness is not of God. For he that hates his brother is a murderer and we know no murderer has etermal life abiding within them.

1 John 1:8 is dealing with the gnostic believer who thought there was no such thing as sin. I grew up knowing someone who was a Christian Scientist. They believed sin did not exist. This is similar to the OSAS proponent and their belief today. They do not believe sin exists for them because they are forgiven of all sins past, present, and future. Sin does not exist for them on a spiritual level. Their belief is very similar to the gnostic belief. The way the OSAS proponent gets out of this is by saying they sin on a physical level but yet on a spiritual level they have no sin (Because Christ paid it all). But this denies the next verse. 1 John 1:9 follows 1 John 1:8. One is supposed to confess their sin in order to be forgiven of their sin. The OSAS proponent does not believe 1 John 1:9 is in relation to salvation but they think it has to do with merely a break in fellowship (While they are still saved). But the Scriptures say, he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). For you have to realize John was writing to the brethren and warning them about false deceivers (1 John 2:26). 1 John 2:4 and 1 John 1:6 is the context of 1 John 1:8.

As for Romans 7: Well, we have to ask ourselves: W
ho was Paul's audience? It was those believers who knew the law (i.e. the Law of Moses) (See Romans 7:1); For no doubt they were getting trippped up in the law of Moses by going back to it). This is the context because Paul mentions the topic of circumcision in Romans 2 (See Romans 2:25).

Now, do not misunderstand me. The Law or the Law of Moses is not the same thing as the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) or the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). James calls it the royal law. Paul says that what he had written should be considered as the Lord's Commandments.

The Law of Moses is of the Old Testament and it is no longer binding.
The Law of Christ is of the New Testament and it was put into effect with Christ's death.

We also learn Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is sold under sin and yet in Romans 8:2 he says he is free from sin. At the end of Romans 7 Paul gives us the solution to his struggle with sin.... who is Jesus Christ. This lets us know that in the bulk of Romans 7: Paul is speaking from his perspective as a Jew who kept the Law before he became a Christian. At the end of Romans 7 and in Romans 8 is when Paul is speaking from his experience as a Christian.
Do you think God is going to take away His gift of Salvation, all because of confusion over word-tense?
 
K

KennethC

Guest
You never read the whole book. Sorry, I just don't believe you.
No I have not read the whole thing yet, but I have read part of it and so far all I have seen is the same misusage and twisting of scripture that is commonly done on here. So therefore it is just a rehash of what has already been handled multiple times on here.

Look I love all my brothers and sisters in the faith no matter what doctrine they maybe lead by right now, and by that love we are called as overseers of the flock to point out when others are walking or talking in a sinful way.

I even saw another just this morning in another thread using curse words, but I refrained myself from getting involved there and moved on.

When you say you have faith and trust in the Lord, your actions will reflect that, and Apostle John says that love is also to be shown in deeds not just words.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
I'm starting to feel bad for Jason. Its like him versus the world, he is being bombarded with grace [teachings]. Lets just make sure we do it with meekness and respect when correcting him, otherwise we are hardening his heart to the truth. Lets not throw accusations and assumptions but just plainly reveal the Gospel of Grace in such a way that it gives him something to ponder.

Not saying this at anyone in particular but as a generic whole. We are presenting grace so lets do it gracefully.
It is written...

Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Do you think God is going to take away His gift of Salvation, all because of confusion over word-tense?
God's thoughts are not our thoughts. One either believes His Word or they don't believe it. We cannot change what the Word says.

Also, again. It has only been 1 minute to my reply. Did you read what I had written in regards to those passages?
 
W

WoundedWarrior

Guest
God's thoughts are not our thoughts. One either believes His Word or they don't believe it. We cannot change what the Word says.
God IS The Word. The Bible was written BY MAN -- yes, inspired by God, however this does not mean that God's pen wrote the words.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
So, what's good for the goose, isn't good for the gander?

I love how you slam us, and then make such excuses for your own behavior.

Your pride is off the charts.

I do not make excuses at all as there is a big difference in reproving and rebuking and being judgmental on others.

Reproving and rebuking others comes from using the scriptures to show them their improper ways and to walk properly.

Judging means you just state things in a condemning way with no scripture to back it up, and no scripture used for exhorting and edifying afterwards.


I 95% of the time use scripture in my responses toward others, and the ones I get in return I may see scripture 10% of the time. Therefore what I say about knowing the difference between judging and reproving or rebuking stands true.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
No I have not read the whole thing yet, but I have read part of it and so far all I have seen is the same misusage and twisting of scripture that is commonly done on here. So therefore it is just a rehash of what has already been handled multiple times on here.

Look I love all my brothers and sisters in the faith no matter what doctrine they maybe lead by right now, and by that love we are called as overseers of the flock to point out when others are walking or talking in a sinful way.

I even saw another just this morning in another thread using curse words, but I refrained myself from getting involved there and moved on.

When you say you have faith and trust in the Lord, your actions will reflect that, and Apostle John says that love is also to be shown in deeds not just words.
Ken, I think you are a decent man - I really do. Things can get, shall we say, "passionate" around here. I apologize for perhaps coming on too strong. We have our disagreements, but I do love you (and Jason) in Christ.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
God IS The Word. The Bible was written BY MAN -- yes, inspired by God, however this does not mean that God's pen wrote the words.
No, God's Word is written by God thru men.

2 Peter 1:20-21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one's own interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Also, check out my many points here in Scripture on the topic of Sola Scriptura, too.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/100040-biblical-defense-sola-scriptura.html