Is a doctrinal statement or the Scriptures the starting point for your church?

[ResidentAlien]

Why is it being "judgmental" only when it's negative? If I make a judgment call about something or someone that's positive, the judgment police don't come out of the woodwork yelling, "Don't judge them. Don't say nice things like that about people!"

If we take away the ability to choose; to recognize what our eyes tell us is true; to call a spade a spade, we're at the mercy of everyone who says we shouldn't be that way. It's a way to get people to stop making decisions and fall in line. Heaven forbid, we wouldn't want to be "judgmental." Even when someone calls someone "judgmental," they themselves are making a judgment call.

 

[Amanuensis]

The Biblical Solution to Multiple Denominations is to hold Councils of Bishops, Pastors, Theologians etc. Let all gather together, pray and invoke the Holy Spirit for guidance, and then debate and discuss these issues with Scriptural References. The Holy Spirit will lead them into all Truth if the pray and continue to seek, and then, as in Acts 15-16, the combined decision of the Whole Church will be gradually accepted by others, through the action of the same Holy Spirit. I pray that Universal Christendom finds Perfect Unity in our lifetime, as imho the lack of the Unity Christ prayed for (Jn 17) is hindering the Great Commission and what He Himself promised would be the result of such a Perfect Unity among Christians: "
that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me." (Jn 17:21). God Bless.

I would say that is how they formed in the first place. They did all that and separated. Each party thinking they were hearing the Holy Spirit and interpreting correctly.

Today there are discussions among evangelical denominations through symposiums and journals and sometimes people change their minds and switch sides/views.

I see a continuing trend toward non denominational churches that have statements similar to the AG.

This theology seems to be the most commonly adopted by those who just pray and seek God and read their bibles.

I am ok with not arguing with people and finding a fellowship that agrees with the way I am reading the scriptures and what God is telling me and leaving others to find the fellowship that they agree with. God will sort it out in the end.

I have so much hope as I see an abundance of non denominational churches springing up everywhere that all have the same theology which I will describe as similar to the AG.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Listed where? You didn't list any.

In the original post.

 

[Dino246]

In the original post.

There weren't any cults listed in the OP.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

There weren't any cults listed in the OP.

There's six of them listed.

 

[Dino246]

There's six of them listed.

Do you attend a Christian fellowship regularly?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Do you attend a Christian fellowship regularly?

Most of my waking life.

 

[Chester]

1. There are no solutions at denominational levels.
2. Many non-denominational churches do exist.
3. Every church must have a clear Statement of Faith.
4. Every affirmation must have clear and unequivocal Scripture to support it.
5. Churches should be autonomous and directly accountable to Christ (Rev 1-3).
6. Every believer in that church must be accountable to the leadership within that church also.

Why do you say every church must have a clear statement of faith? Is not simply teaching and preaching the Word enough?

In #4 you clarify this, but if there is a "clear and unequivocal" Scripture, then why does it need to be written as a "statement of faith"?

 

[Chester]

I am not sure that any of these pastors would agree that they don't start with scripture when they teach.

You seem to suggesting that they can't be all just teaching scripture alone because if they were they would not have differences.

But the problem and solution lies in Hermeneutics.

It is not a problem that the AG would deny credentials to a preacher that believes tongues has ceased. This is how credentialing works and why it exist.

You are probably right that most pastors say they would begin with the Scriptures. And I am sure most do teach the Scriptures and probably many do well at this.

But the point is still this: if you are a part of a denomination with a doctrinal statement: the doctrinal statement comes before the Word. You dare not interpret any Scripture against the plain statements of the denominational beliefs. But if a Scripture does contradict (or even might seem to contradict) the doctrinal statement, it is not even "possible" that interpretation could be correct!

 

[Chester]

My solution? Forget these denominations, move on, they're hindering the Spirit.

Maybe so - might be a good solution: When are you leaving your denomination? LOL!

 

[Aaron56]

It was Rome and the Roman church that first required a codified statement of belief. This was done to impose a hegemony and consolidate the churches into a structure that could be governed from Rome.

In the Bible, however, we see “the church in Corinth”, “the church in Ephesus”, “the church in Antioch”, etc.

 

[Chester]

The Biblical Solution to Multiple Denominations is to hold Councils of Bishops, Pastors, Theologians etc. Let all gather together, pray and invoke the Holy Spirit for guidance, and then debate and discuss these issues with Scriptural References. The Holy Spirit will lead them into all Truth if the pray and continue to seek, and then, as in Acts 15-16, the combined decision of the Whole Church will be gradually accepted by others, through the action of the same Holy Spirit. I pray that Universal Christendom finds Perfect Unity in our lifetime, as imho the lack of the Unity Christ prayed for (Jn 17) is hindering the Great Commission and what He Himself promised would be the result of such a Perfect Unity among Christians: "
that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me." (Jn 17:21). God Bless.

The ancestors of my denomination tried this in their relations with the Catholic Church, but they got kicked out -- and not just kicked out but then persecuted, tortured, and executed!

 

[Chester]

I would say that is how they formed in the first place. They did all that and separated. Each party thinking they were hearing the Holy Spirit and interpreting correctly.

Today there are discussions among evangelical denominations through symposiums and journals and sometimes people change their minds and switch sides/views.

I see a continuing trend toward non denominational churches that have statements similar to the AG.

This theology seems to be the most commonly adopted by those who just pray and seek God and read their bibles.

I am ok with not arguing with people and finding a fellowship that agrees with the way I am reading the scriptures and what God is telling me and leaving others to find the fellowship that they agree with. God will sort it out in the end.

I have so much hope as I see an abundance of non denominational churches springing up everywhere that all have the same theology which I will describe as similar to the AG.

Interesting thoughts -- not sure about the "similar to the AG"? But there might be something to be said here.

But does the AG allow diversity within its ranks? I guess I still don't understand why you have to have a separate "statement of faith" if you are clearly teaching Scripture and only Scripture.

 

[Chester]

There's six of them listed.

A cult is a group that does not teach the gospel. The gospel is the good news of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Paul said if any preach any other gospel let them be accursed.

I think all six listed in the first post preach the "gospel", but they do have different doctrinal statements.

But I am with you in agreeing that denominations can be and are a problem: when doctrine is put before the Word. But that to me is different than a "cult".

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why do you say every church must have a clear statement of faith? Is not simply teaching and preaching the Word enough?

Let's say I am new to your town or city and looking for a Bible-based church. If you do not have a Statement of Faith, it will be a red flag, and your church will be ignored, no matter what they preach or teach.

In #4 you clarify this, but if there is a "clear and unequivocal" Scripture, then why does it need to be written as a "statement of faith"?

Anything in a Statement of Faith should be backed up with the corresponding Scriptures. A person should know upon which Scriptures a statement is made.

 

[Chester]

Let's say I am new to your town or city and looking for a Bible-based church. If you do not have a Statement of Faith, it will be a red flag, and your church will be ignored, no matter what they preach or teach.
Anything in a Statement of Faith should be backed up with the corresponding Scriptures. A person should know upon which Scriptures a statement is made.

I like your thoughts here, but in practicality how does this work?

Suppose I pastor a church and make a doctrinal statement that says:

(1) We believe salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works

(2) We believe in the ordinance of baptism

(3) We believe that tongues is a gift of the Spirit.

(Note that this is only three points corresponding with the three points mentioned in post #1)
(And I did not try to put Scriptures to these, those I suppose one could do that)

Would you support this approach to a doctrinal statement?

 

[Nehemiah6]

(And I did not try to put Scriptures to these, those I suppose one could do that)

And that would be the key. In fact without the corresponding Scriptures, a Statement of Faith would not be biblical.

 

[Eli1]

It seems that for most churches (at least denominational ones) once doctrine is written down, then that becomes the starting point.

For example, if I become a pastor in a Southern Baptist Church, or a Lutheran Church, or a Holiness Church, etc., dare I start my teaching by going to the Word and teaching what (I) think it says? No, I must begin with that church's doctrinal statement. I have liberty of Scriptural interpretation as long as I abide by the doctrinal statement.

I can't pastor a Southern Baptist Church unless I begin with OSAS
I can't pastor a Holiness Church unless I begin without OSAS
I can't pastor a Lutheran Church unless I begin with infant baptism
I can't pastor a Baptist church if I baptize infants
I can't pastor an Assemblies of God church if I preach tongues was for Acts only
I can't pastor most fundamental evangelical churches if I preach that tongues is needed to be filled with the Spirit

I don't want this thread to be just another discussion of these doctrinal issues; that is not the point here.

The question is how to resolve this dilimma? Of course, this is done by unaffiliated, independent churches. But what is the solution at a denominational level? What denominations actually begin with Scripture rather than doctrinal statements?

Have you tried the East Orthodox Church?
Maybe you’ll like it.
Maybe you won’t.

 

[Chester]

Have you tried the East Orthodox Church?
Maybe you’ll like it.
Maybe you won’t.

LOL! If they get rid of any preconceived doctrinal beliefs . . .

 

[Eli1]

LOL! If they get rid of any preconceived doctrinal beliefs . . .

It’s not very doctrinal. It’s basically the followers of the original apostles.
For example here’s how Salvation is explained from a East Orthodox Perspective:


In regards to the Orthodox conception of Salvation - it is the concept of theosis. The concept is interrelated to all other things God has achieved in history, through His Son, Christ Jesus, in the Spirit.


The Son's Incarnation, the Pentecost and the Mysteries pave the way for man to become like Christ, the Second Adam, thus attain Salvation. As Salvation merely is man becoming so deified that the very person is now fit to be in God's Kingdom, what the First Adam failed to do.

The atonement brings humanity back to Paradise, as the Fall is undone and the resurrection into eternity awaits. Salvation ensures that there won't be another Fall, as the Saved are now unlike the First Adam, but like the Second Adam, deified into being a perfect human person, in the likeness of Christ, therefore always doing God's will.


So, as such, Salvation is God's way of purifying man and making him a worthy person of His presence. A person, who won't be consumed and tortured by God's presence, but would enjoy it and receive wisdom, as God is Light full of Wisdom. We start receiving said Light while here, thus the deification into "theosis" - being God-like, - starts now, in this very life.

This is the oldest practice and belief on the earliest Church. Christians strive to perfect virtue, as to attain Salvation, because Salvation is literally the state of being a person like Christ, therefore being worthy to be a son of God. This is achieved precisely because of the Incarnation, the Pentecost and the Mysteries, where God aids man in his path of Salvation and becoming Christ-like. So, man's will synergizes with God's will, as both the man desires to be like Christ and God desires said man to be like His Son, therefore Salvation is achieved in becoming such.