Is Baptism in water a work or a command? Is it necessary for salvation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
1,150
113
New Zealand
#41
The church'.. being added to here... is the church at Jerusalem. These are already saved people joining in membership to the church at Jerusalem.

Acts 2:37

This verse describes the reaction of the people to Peter's sermon. They were "cut to the heart" by his words, which means that they were deeply moved and convicted by them. This is a common reaction to the preaching of the gospel, as it exposes people's sin and need for salvation.

The command to Repent, be baptized and receiving of The Holy Ghost was not the those that are saved but to the lost.

Mat_9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
It depends on whether the receiving is as an entire group to become a church or individually receiving the Spirit
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
1,150
113
New Zealand
#42
The church'.. being added to here... is the church at Jerusalem. These are already saved people joining in membership to the church at Jerusalem.

Acts 2:37

This verse describes the reaction of the people to Peter's sermon. They were "cut to the heart" by his words, which means that they were deeply moved and convicted by them. This is a common reaction to the preaching of the gospel, as it exposes people's sin and need for salvation.

The command to Repent, be baptized and receiving of The Holy Ghost was not the those that are saved but to the lost.

Mat_9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
From Bible Ref:

Chapter Summary
Acts 2 describes the beginning of the church in three episodes. First, the Holy Spirit comes upon the Jesus-followers in Jerusalem, equipping them with the ability to teach the gospel in different languages (Acts 2:1–13). Second, Peter gives a public declaration using Old Testament prophecy to show Jesus is the long-awaited Jewish Messiah (Acts 2:14–36). Third, people believe. They repent, trust Jesus will forgive their sins, and agree to be baptized as a public sign that they are now Jesus-followers (Acts 2:37–47). That quickly, the church is born.
 
May 1, 2022
565
156
43
#43
The book of John has salvation before baptism all through it. The thief on the cross was not baptised. Romans 10:9-10 describes salvation without baptism. Ephesians 2:8-9 describes salvation without baptism. Plus others.

Therefore the weight of scripture would say that the receiving of the Holy Spirit for each individual in Acts 2:37 has occured before the water baptism.

A whole group of already converted individuals receiving the Holy Spirit is them becoming a NT church. The Holy Spirit becoming their lampstand. 'In the midst'.

That may be what is happening in Acts 2:37
You are correct those Scriptures don't specifically mention baptism. But at the same time the Bible doesn't mention every moment of baptism during the Apostles time it would be too many to record. However you cannot use the thief on the cross as an example, because baptism in Jesus Name wasn't instituted while He (Jesus) still lived.
 
May 1, 2022
565
156
43
#44
From Bible Ref:

Chapter Summary
Acts 2 describes the beginning of the church in three episodes. First, the Holy Spirit comes upon the Jesus-followers in Jerusalem, equipping them with the ability to teach the gospel in different languages (Acts 2:1–13). Second, Peter gives a public declaration using Old Testament prophecy to show Jesus is the long-awaited Jewish Messiah (Acts 2:14–36). Third, people believe. They repent, trust Jesus will forgive their sins, and agree to be baptized as a public sign that they are now Jesus-followers (Acts 2:37–47). That quickly, the church is born.
That is not what is going on here. They are Baptized in the Holy Ghost and are speaking in tongues to God not to man, man just heard their voices and declared that is was the Wonderful Works of God. When they went to a foreign country they still needed an interpreter, just like a missionary today going to another country.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,180
1,801
113
#45
The book of John has salvation before baptism all through it.
Yes... salvation.
According to Peter, when you are baptized, then you receive the gift of the indwelling Spirit. He did not say "repent, and you will receive the Spirit" or "accept Jesus and you will receive the gift of the Spirit" He was pretty plain about it.

Look at the folks with Cornelius.... they were believers, had been baptized with John's baptism, but had not received the Spirit..... until they were baptized into Jesus...

This all indicates that when you hear, believe, and accept Christ, and the free gift of salvation, you are to be baptized... and you receive the Holy Spirit, once you have been spiritually "cleansed"..... baptism for the forgiveness of sin...
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
1,150
113
New Zealand
#46
Yes... salvation.
According to Peter, when you are baptized, then you receive the gift of the indwelling Spirit. He did not say "repent, and you will receive the Spirit" or "accept Jesus and you will receive the gift of the Spirit" He was pretty plain about it.

Look at the folks with Cornelius.... they were believers, had been baptized with John's baptism, but had not received the Spirit..... until they were baptized into Jesus...

This all indicates that when you hear, believe, and accept Christ, and the free gift of salvation, you are to be baptized... and you receive the Holy Spirit, once you have been spiritually "cleansed"..... baptism for the forgiveness of sin...
https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Acts-2-38.html

This explains it well.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
1,150
113
New Zealand
#47
Yes... salvation.
According to Peter, when you are baptized, then you receive the gift of the indwelling Spirit. He did not say "repent, and you will receive the Spirit" or "accept Jesus and you will receive the gift of the Spirit" He was pretty plain about it.

Look at the folks with Cornelius.... they were believers, had been baptized with John's baptism, but had not received the Spirit..... until they were baptized into Jesus...

This all indicates that when you hear, believe, and accept Christ, and the free gift of salvation, you are to be baptized... and you receive the Holy Spirit, once you have been spiritually "cleansed"..... baptism for the forgiveness of sin...
Again I see the difference between individuals being indwelled and then a group of believers, already indwelled becoming a NT church
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,618
810
113
#48
It is impossible for my Water Baptism to cause any division in the Body of Christ?:p
Chuckle!!! The whole business of "Baptizm is one of the MOST DIVISIVE ISSUES in Christendom. It's the normal result of "Denominational Theology".

My Wife couldn't join a Baptist Church, because she was baptized by an Assembly of God minister.
 
Oct 18, 2023
449
75
28
#49
Those who have not been properly Baptized are not in the Body of Christ and that is why it is impossible for my Water Baptism to cause any division in the Body of Christ? :oops:
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
#50
If your being baptized to be saved, it is a work, and will be rejected as a means of salvation.

If your obedient to Gods command, it is a work of righteousness which you have done..

Not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy he saved us.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,162
3,699
113
#53
Those who have not been properly Baptized are not in the Body of Christ and that is why it is impossible for my Water Baptism to cause any division in the Body of Christ? :oops:
Are there any exceptions? Thief on the cross? Death bed conversions? Places in a drought?
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#54
Those who have not been properly Baptized are not in the Body of Christ and that is why it is impossible for my Water Baptism to cause any division in the Body of Christ? :oops:
in the NAME (of the Father-Son-Holy Spirit)...so this NAME, that is also the NAME for the Father-Son-Holy Spirit, were you Baptized in THAT NAME?
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
1,150
113
New Zealand
#55
The key thing is looking at who is receiving the Holy Spirit in verses. If it is an entire group who have already believed.. then that is not about salvation, but empowerment and how a group becomes a local NT church.
 
May 1, 2022
565
156
43
#56
I think is all so plainly written and simple to understand. Peter on the Day of Pentecost gave the most profound message under the Power and Direction of the Holy Ghost. He spoke to a crowd the was lost and broken for what they did. The Holy Ghost seeks to save those that are sick, broken and lost. When the crowd asked Men and Brethren What must we do? They wanted salvation.

Acts 2:38 Is a direct command from the Holy Ghost through Peter of exactly what to do to obtain that Salvation. Plain and clear to me.

My Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noone on Earth brings new revelation, that isn't already revealed through the Word of God, which is fullest revelation given to man. Through the moving and operation of the Holy Ghost, I Pray what we say here brings the truth of these Revelations, truth by truth, or precept upon precept, to the heart of the hearer. Lay what we say before the feet of Jesus (Word of God) and compare, the Bible is Always truth, so if they don't match, we need to reevaluate our stance. What we say or do here will have lasting impact upon the believer and sinner alike. We most certainly have freedom of speech, but any true christian will weigh what they say against the Word of God and if they don't agree God is not in error, and we need to pray for understanding. Those that have more meat of the Word can help those who are struggling, if done with humility, peace and love. I don't mind a peaceful debate, but when we start to argue amongst each other that is not the Spirit of God. God Bless and Peace to you all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
May 1, 2022
565
156
43
#57
If your being baptized to be saved, it is a work, and will be rejected as a means of salvation.

If your obedient to Gods command, it is a work of righteousness which you have done..

Not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy he saved us.
This is not a work of righteousness which I have done because my blood can't cover my sins, but His (Jesus Christ) blood can which the water of baptism represents, so truly it is a Work of God.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,180
1,801
113
#58
it all depends on what the definition of "is" is. Just ask Slick Willy..:rolleyes:

It's odd how ALL translations that I know of interpret it as FOR the forgiveness of sins, not BECAUSE OF the forgiveness of sins.

It's taken a couple of thousand years to get smart enough to decide it means something else. smh.

Besides, that was not the issue, the issue was, when do we receive the Spirit? It is tied to baptism... your argument about the "when" of forgiveness has no bearing on that discussion.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
1,150
113
New Zealand
#59
it all depends on what the definition of "is" is. Just ask Slick Willy..:rolleyes:

It's odd how ALL translations that I know of interpret it as FOR the forgiveness of sins, not BECAUSE OF the forgiveness of sins.

It's taken a couple of thousand years to get smart enough to decide it means something else. smh.

Besides, that was not the issue, the issue was, when do we receive the Spirit? It is tied to baptism... your argument about the "when" of forgiveness has no bearing on that discussion.
But the argument still stands..
If I take aspirin 'for' a headache.. that is not to get the headache..but because I've already got it.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
#60
in the NAME (of the Father-Son-Holy Spirit)...so this NAME, that is also the NAME for the Father-Son-Holy Spirit, were you Baptized in THAT NAME?
Clearly, if they are 3 separate individuals [i will even add if they are One Individual], they have a NAME. the Functions are Father - Son - Holy Spirit, but those are NOT NAMES, those are TITLES of the Functions. so, if you got Baptized, were you Baptized in the NAME?