Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

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CorrectiveLens

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TheNarrowPath said:
After visiting a number of churches in my area I settled on a Baptist church because it was the only one where I walked out feeling like I learned something about God. Ive never called myself a Baptist and even watching others get baptized Im not yet convinced that its for me at this point. But I could be persuaded in the future. Was Baptism with water only because Jesus had not begun his works at that time?
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Baptism with water was a way for the Jews of showing God that they repented of all their sins. They don't have to show it by water baptism because God judges the hearts of man. John stated that he was told to water baptize so that he would be able to identify the one that was going to baptize with the Holy Spirit as the person upon whose head rests the Holy Spirit. Jesus later uses John the Baptist as one of the witnesses that He came from God in John 5: 33-35. This confirms why John baptized with water and why Jesus Himself got baptized with water.
Dirtman said:
I dont know how y'all just throw away what is in 1Peter3:21 where he says baptism now saves you.
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It's not water baptism!
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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CorrectiveLens said:
All the baptisms done with water in the new testament were done by Christian Jews. Jews from all around the Jordan came to John the baptist to get baptized with water by him. WHY? They never heard of Jesus and were not Christians. They went there to publically declare their repentance to God and to witnesses. That is why John's baptism with water is called the baptism of repentance. Remember that at first, Christian Jews thought Gentiles were not included in salvation and after they were included, that they had to be circumcized. Water baptism is just a Jewish expression of repentance. When Jesus first started His ministry, He preached repentance. I believe that giving water credit for performing anything spiritual other than an expression of repentance is a form of idolatry.
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John the Baptist's water baptism differed from those begun in the NT. The NT water baptism was administered in the name of the Lord Jesus after His death, burial, and resurrection. As my previous post indicated, Jesus told the disciples to go into all nations and baptize in a Name. This command was given just prior to Jesus' ascension. (Matt. 28:19)

The initial message was presented to Jews by Peter, who preached Jesus on the Day of Pentecost, as recorded in Acts 2. It was after the individuals believed what Peter shared about Jesus that they became upset and asked what was required of them. He responded by telling them to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sins. We know the baptism Peter commanded was water baptism as indicated by his presenting the same message to the Gentiles. They were commanded to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:47-48) As you may know, Peter began his conversation with the Gentiles by saying that it is through Jesus' name that people who believe in him receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

Also consider that Ananias told Paul to be baptized and wash away his sins calling on the name of the Lord.
 
C

CorrectiveLens

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Wansvic said:
John the Baptist's water baptism differed from those begun in the NT. The NT water baptism was administered in the name of the Lord Jesus after His death, burial, and resurrection. As my previous post indicated, Jesus told the disciples to go into all nations and baptize in a Name. This command was given just prior to Jesus' ascension. (Matt. 28:19)

The initial message was presented to Jews by Peter, who preached Jesus on the Day of Pentecost, as recorded in Acts 2. It was after the individuals believed what Peter shared about Jesus that they became upset and asked what was required of them. He responded by telling them to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sins. We know the baptism Peter commanded was water baptism as indicated by his presenting the same message to the Gentiles. They were commanded to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:47-48) As you may know, Peter began his conversation with the Gentiles by saying that it is through Jesus' name that people who believe in him receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

Also consider that Ananias told Paul to be baptized and wash away his sins calling on the name of the Lord.
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Acts 9: 17-18 Ananias did not tell Paul to be baptized and wash away his sins calling on the name of the Lord. Your reading comprehension is very poor. His baptism was not with water but with the Holy Spirit. Read the last sentence in verse 17. Paul became a believer in Christ when he got his sight back and was baptized in the name of the Son and then in the name of the Holy Spirit.
I believe that giving water credit for performing anything spiritual other than an expression of repentance is a form of idolatry. I'm definitely going to pray for you that you may receive sight through the Holy Spirit just like Paul.
 
D

Dirtman

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Jul 19, 2022
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TheNarrowPath said:
After visiting a number of churches in my area I settled on a Baptist church because it was the only one where I walked out feeling like I learned something about God. Ive never called myself a Baptist and even watching others get baptized Im not yet convinced that its for me at this point. But I could be persuaded in the future. Was Baptism with water only because Jesus had not begun his works at that time?
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Jesus comanded it done , the apostles did it in acts, Philip baptized the Ethiopian. Water baptism has been the practice of the church for centuries.
This not with water thing is a modern idea that didnt appear until the late 1800s early 1900s.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Bluesproverb said:
Must be a typo,right?

Without the immersion into water there can be NO Forgiveness of sins. 🤔🤥
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Without the shed blood of Jesus being baptized into His death for remission of sin would be impossible. (Romans 6:3-6)
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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Runningman said:
Hebrews 10:19-22
19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21And having an high priest over the house of God;
22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.



Paul said this is the gospel that saves:

1 Corinthians 15:
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm.
2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

So is the gospel mentioned in Revelation?
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What is the pure water referring to in Hebrews 10:19-22?

Is is H20 or something else?
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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mustaphadrink said:
Can anyone tell me if baptism is not important to salvation why were the first converts told to be baptised?
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Water baptism in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ is an important part of our faith in Christ.

However, the Word of God has made it abundantly clear that physical water (H2O) - cannot absolve/cleanse a man of his sins.

Only the Precious Blood of Messiah can remove the stain of sin from a man.

"For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission."
Hebrews ch9

"And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God."
1 Peter ch1
 
C

CorrectiveLens

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DavidTree said:
What is the pure water referring to in Hebrews 10:19-22?

Is is H20 or something else?
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Ezek 36: 25-27 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean; from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.
I don't think that God meant literal water.
What God said that He was going to do to Israel, He is doing now to Jews and Gentiles. He cleanses us through the blood of Jesus, and perfects us by filling us with His Spirit who fills our hearts with divine love for God and everyone else. When all our thoughts and actions are motivated by love, we are obeying the Spirit of the Law. Sprinkling of water was symbolic of cleansing of sins which He does now through Jesus Christ.
 
J

jaybo

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If baptism was all that was required for salvation then the crowds that cane to be baptized by John didn't need Jesus.

Baptism is a ritual burying of the "old", sinful person. It does not save, never has, and never will.
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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Wansvic said:
Without the shed blood of Jesus being baptized into His death for remission of sin would be impossible. (Romans 6:3-6)
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You are promoting a heresy by alluding to the LORD Jesus needing water baptism to save Himself and us.

Repent from this and humble yourself before God that you may recieve the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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CorrectiveLens said:
Ezek 36: 25-27 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean; from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.
I don't think that God meant literal water.
What God said that He was going to do to Israel, He is doing now to Jews and Gentiles. He cleanses us through the blood of Jesus, and perfects us by filling us with His Spirit who fills our hearts with divine love for God and everyone else. When all our thoughts and actions are motivated by love, we are obeying the Spirit of the Law. Sprinkling of water was symbolic of cleansing of sins which He does now through Jesus Christ.
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We are to drink, daily, from the Eternal Spring/Fountain/River of Spirit that flows from the Throne of God.
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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CorrectiveLens said:
Not with water but with the Holy Spirit. Christ's use of the word "baptism" had a different meaning than water baptism. Check out post # 454 and # 455 to find out how Jesus used the word "baptism".
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Seeing they see not and hearing they hear not.......................so goes religion.
 
R

Runningman

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DavidTree said:
What is the pure water referring to in Hebrews 10:19-
22?

Is is H20 or something else?
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The body it’s referring to in Hebrews 10:22 is a literal flesh and blood body. So as far as I can tell water is literal here and not figurative.
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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Runningman said:
Hebrews 10:19-22
19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21And having an high priest over the house of God;
22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.



Paul said this is the gospel that saves:

1 Corinthians 15:
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm.
2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

So is the gospel mentioned in Revelation?
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#1 - the Gospel is FULLY given in Revelation

#2 Water baptism is not mentioned in Revelation.

#3 What is the pure water referring to in Hebrews 10:19-22?

Is is H20 or something else?
 
J

jaybo

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DavidTree said:
You are promoting a heresy by alluding to the LORD Jesus needing water baptism to save Himself and us.

Repent from this and humble yourself before God that you may recieve the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
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How do you know that Wansvic hasn't received the Holy Spirit?
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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jaybo said:
So goes cryptic posts... what are you trying to say?
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Religion blinds the minds of those who read scripture whereby they can only see what their mind has been programmed/ingrained/etched/trained to see and believe.

Without the Spirit of Truth no one can properly discern the Message from Genesis to Revelation.

Truth comes from the FATHER Above = 100% Clear Gospel Message from the Only Begotten Son of God = Yeshua HaMashiach
 
R

Runningman

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DavidTree said:
#1 - the Gospel is FULLY given in Revelation

#2 Water baptism is not mentioned in Revelation.

#3 What is the pure water referring to in Hebrews 10:19-22?

Is is H20 or something else?
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Where is the gospel given in Revelation?

The water in Hebrews 10:22 is H2O.
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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jaybo said:
How do you know that Wansvic hasn't received the Holy Spirit?
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This is not the first rodeo with him/her.
i have spoken with him/her before and his/her words give way to his error which comes not from the Spirit of Truth.
His main focus is 'water baptism' which is often the case of those who have not yet been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
They focus on the outward and often reject and argue against Truth as "It is written".
It is a common occurence on here as many come from religion based teaching.

Our words/thoughts will either agree with the Holy Spirit or disagree = "It is written"
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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Runningman said:
Where is the gospel given in Revelation?

The water in Hebrews 10:22 is H2O.
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Hebrews does not mention H2O.

How is it that you cannot SEE the Gospel in Revelation???

Clue = Starts in chapter 1
 
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