Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,276
1,652
113
again, the answer is no

well baptism in water

baptism by God into the death and burial of Christ and his body. is essential. so in essencew baptism is required. just not the one many are pushing. a modern day type of circumcision which never saved anyone
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,042
1,453
113
Midwest
my list of reasons that baptism is "necessary".
My list of Unnecessary water?:

1) God Only Has ONE Baptism (Spiritual) for Today's Body Of Christ,
Under GRACE, Rightly Divided * from the TWO He had Under The Law.

2) God Is Grieved (post #1150) when man changes That ONE into TWO,
Causing all of the following (Most, but not all, claiming a
Bible position) listed Confusion:

a) believe AND be baptized {i.e. immersion to contact​
their Christ's blood (baptismal regenerationists)}?​
b) immersion with a symbolic interpretation? a "great"​
testimony? (denominational tradition)​
c) immersion ONCE in the "name of Jesus?​
d) immersion THRICE in the "name of the Triune Godhead?​
e) immersion {whether once or thrice} for "membership" in​
their traditional assembly?​
f) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into religion​
washing away their original sin?​
g) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into some​
covenant?​
h) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into their​
parent's custody that they promise to raise them right?​
{into Mass Confusion?}​
i) sprinkling water on babies, admitting that their ritual is​
UNscriptural, but "we do it anyway, because it is OUR tradition!"?​
j) pouring water onto babies or adults for Whatever​
traditional reason religion "can come up with"?​
k) immersion of young and middle-aged women 'similar'​
to worldly/ungodly 'wet t-shirt' contests?​
another "great" testimony??​
l) immersion Discriminates Against ALL "those who CANNOT​
'obey' this ritual" ie: the hospitalized, the bedridden, the​
homebound, the invalids, the traumatized, etc.​

m) another water adherent claims there needs to be "speaking​
in tongues," saying "in the name of jesus" is Incorrect = it needs​
to be (greek) "ioesus" or is it: "isos or Ii̱soús"?​
----------------------------
*
Right Division for solving ALL of this Confusion?:

(1) Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for
power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Law

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

(2) Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually
Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB! ◄◄◄)

Thus, God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, Vanquishes Satan's
multiplied CONFUSION Into Oblivion! Correct?
-----------------------------------------------------

Grace, Peace, And JOY In The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II).
 
P

Polar

Guest
You can say nope all you want, or nope backwards, epon, or change the letters even, open, peno, pone, or whatever, but you can't change what the scriptures clearly say. Nope; that ain't gonna happen.
:sleep: repetition does not make you correct
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,029
1,068
113
.
Eph 4:5 . . There is one faith, one baptism

Let's say, hypothetically; that a number of coal miners were trapped hundreds
of feet below ground by an impassible cave-in and they all died before help
arrived.


Let's say one of those miners was a Christian guy who hurriedly explained the
gospel to all involved.


Well; like it's said: there are no atheists in a fox hole. They all to a man
were overjoyed by the Christian's gospel-- the virgin birth, the crucifixion,
and the resurrection, i.e. the whole ball of wax --until he got to this point:


Mark 16:16 . .Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever
does not believe will be condemned.


Well; there was no water down there for the men to be baptized.
_
God is not bound by hypotheticals. He is bound by His own word. All will be judged by it according to Jesus in John 12:48. The scriptures below reference this truth.

On a personal note, I believe God draws people throughout their entire lives. Only to be rejected until they think death is imminent and they have no other choice. Where is the love in that?


"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matt 7:21

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:34-35

God is nothing like the world. Nor should we expect Him to be. He does not give everyone a trophy whether they participate or not.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,029
1,068
113
Why do so many think God needs our help to Save us.
Acts 2:40-42
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..."
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,029
1,068
113
.



I appreciate your curiosity because it provokes me question who today
qualifies as a baptizer? And how do people today become qualified to
baptize? Do they have to be ordained and/or licensed? Or maybe there's
a board exam; like for lawyers?
_
An interesting thought came to mind earlier today that expresses the possibility that those who water baptize may be required to have the Holy Ghost dwelling within. Why? Because it was at Pentecost that both the Holy Ghost was given and repentance, and water baptism in the name of Jesus was preached and begun. Jesus' words in Luke 24:47 point to this truth.

Also, John the Baptist had the Holy Ghost dwelling in him from his mother's womb. However, when John began baptism for repentance no one knew who the messiah was. They just knew He would soon arrive on the scene. Even after Jesus was identified, no one knew He would die and resurrect. John's baptism was later modified to include the use of the name of the Lord Jesus in connection with His death, burial and resurrection. As such the believer is positioned with Jesus in His sacrifice. (Rom. 6:3-6)

Lastly, consider after telling the disciples to receive the Holy Ghost, Jesus says whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." (John 20:23) Since it is obvious that they could not remit sins in and of themselves, Jesus' words would seem to relate to the disciples preaching the gospel and administering water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
1,027
182
63
An interesting thought came to mind earlier today that expresses the possibility that those who water baptize may be required to have the Holy Ghost dwelling within. Why? Because it was at Pentecost that both the Holy Ghost was given and repentance, and water baptism in the name of Jesus was preached and begun. Jesus' words in Luke 24:47 point to this truth.

Also, John the Baptist had the Holy Ghost dwelling in him from his mother's womb. However, when John began baptism for repentance no one knew who the messiah was. They just knew He would soon arrive on the scene. Even after Jesus was identified, no one knew He would die and resurrect. John's baptism was later modified to include the use of the name of the Lord Jesus in connection with His death, burial and resurrection. As such the believer is positioned with Jesus in His sacrifice. (Rom. 6:3-6)

Lastly, consider after telling the disciples to receive the Holy Ghost, Jesus says whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." (John 20:23) Since it is obvious that they could not remit sins in and of themselves, Jesus' words would seem to relate to the disciples preaching the gospel and administering water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
Yes. John's baptism was the precursor to the baptism noted in Acts 2:38. It was identical except that in Acts 2:38, the baptism is in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Unlike John's baptism, which would require continuous repeating upon sinning, baptism into Christ is a one time event with only repentance necessary afterwards in the event of sin. Note the Ephesians were re-baptized into Christ as recorded in Acts 19 since they had only been baptized unto John's baptism. Note too, they were baptized correctly and received the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit itself, as per Acts 2:38 as does everyone, but it wasn't until after Paul laid his hands on them that they received the miraculous manifestation of the various gifts as noted, i,e.; they spoke in tongues. This demonstrates that receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost or Spirit itself, is different than receiving the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10, that are enabled by or through the Spirit and are so manifested by the laying on of the apostles hands.

Luke 3:3

3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,029
1,068
113
That chapter does not tell us that. Ever.

Paul did not contradict himself.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Ephesians 2
Grace is seen in God's willingness to make a way for people to be saved. He did not devise it because man's good behavior warranted it. But just the opposite; He did it in spite of man's sinful nature. He established it out of His love
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,012
5,208
113
That chapter does not tell us that. Ever.

Paul did not contradict himself.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Ephesians 2
what does faith mean to you ? Don’t you have to hear what god said in order to know what to believe ?

Your saying “ saved by faith “

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

doesn’t faith mean you need to believe what the lord said our salvation ?

when your equating baptism to a work of one’s self what is the basis ?

baptism is established by God not men

“The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it is God who sent John the Baptist to baptize for remission of sins if he hadn’t no one would even know anything about baptism for remission of sins

I’m not sure but just to inform you when you get baptized there isn’t any work involved for you you stand there while a preacher buried you below water and lifts you back up above the water

all you have to do to get baptized is acceptnwhat the word of God says it’s for

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

when your saying saved by faith

to be clear faith doesn’t mean now you don’t need to believe what God said and your saved anyways

it means you heard what God said and believe it enough to step forth in it

baptism is a gift that offers a promise from God to remit your sins in Christs name

it’s sad to see people make it into something else when God has provided a perfect solution for our sins and announced that if we believe we will be saved
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,012
5,208
113
Grace is seen in God's willingness to make a way for people to be saved. He did not devise it because man's good behavior warranted it. But just the opposite; He did it in spite of man's sinful nature. He established it out of His love
yes it’s like of God provides a way for us to receive all these glories and wonders but then we say “naw i do t need to hear what he said , I have faith i don’t need all that stuff he said about salvstion I’m saved by faith already it’s a better way than what Jesus said “

a drowning man prays but then God sends a boat and says “ get in “and he says no thanks I’m waiting for Gods answer I won’t need to get in any boat when he saves me
 
P

Polar

Guest
The bible does however and it also makes you incorrect.
that is quite a defense of your opinion

I am wrong, you say, so that means you are right

sounds like something a spoiled 4 year old would say just before being told to go their room

nope. LOL!
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
1,027
182
63
that is quite a defense of your opinion

I am wrong, you say, so that means you are right

sounds like something a spoiled 4 year old would say just before being told to go their room

nope. LOL!
Yes. I am right because my position is no different than the scriptures. Goodbye 👋
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
4,353
113
Is baptism in the name of Jesus only, modalism/oneness theology?

If so why and how does it stand in contrast with the theology of the trinity?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,998
7,363
113
Jhn 4:1
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

Jhn 4:2
(Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,991
5,625
113
62
Have you ever considered the consequence for those who would neglect to obey God's command of circumcision? Circumcision was required for those in the OT in order to remain in covenant with God. I've provided confirming scriptures below. Consider the significance as it relates to the NT command of water baptism.

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." Gen 17:14

"And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him. (Moses)
Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
So he let him go:
then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision." Ex 4:24-26
Do you find any such expression of this concerning baptism?
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
1,027
182
63
Is baptism in the name of Jesus only, modalism/oneness theology?

If so why and how does it stand in contrast with the theology of the trinity?
The only examples we have are in the scriptures, and therein you find that subsequent to Jesus's death, all were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. We're baptized into HIS body, and become part of HIS body which is HIS church.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,029
1,068
113
Is baptism in the name of Jesus only, modalism/oneness theology?

If so why and how does it stand in contrast with the theology of the trinity?
According to the word, the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus. That is why Peter commanded everyone to be baptized that way. Also, the apostles consistently water baptized people in the name of Jesus. The following scriptures reveal this truth. (Acts 2:36-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)