Is Calvinism the truth?

[The_Watchers_2017]

Have you come across and considered the seeming paradox of the Calvinists' compatibilist freedom doctrine? The idea that God has absolute freedom, including to determine the absolute will of man - his desires, thoughts, actions, while somehow allowing for man's freedom to do what he wants - he has these freedoms, but they're determined by his predestined make-up.
He is "free" to act as he wishes, but he can't POSSIBLY choose to act otherwise.

Calvinist do not separate the difference between an Angel and Humanity. but even we see the Angel was given Free Will to [[CHOOSE]] to reject God and become fallen Angels. why would God give the Angels Free Will to choose to Stay or Go but not allow Humans the same ability? who wants to serve a God that Forces me to anything against my will?

 

[Mem]

The New Testament clearly teaches that God is sovereign, but also that we have free will. It couldn't be plainer.

God is sovereign in that He determines the outcome of our free will which, by definition, is the ability to choose between at least two choices, and regarding His Gospel the choice is to believe or reject it. One's freewill is overridden by God's will if he rejects it but still wills to live forever in their own sovereignty. Unless one can overcome His power and majesty, this is impossible.

 

[oyster67]

Until a few years ago, I hadn't encountered Calvinism, instinctively thinking it was a form of operation, like methodism, rather than a belief system. To me, it seems wrong and counter-intuitive, but sometimes, if I'm bombarded with assertions over and over again, I tend to start to wonder - "Am I missing something?" "Is there something in this?".
Would anyone like to give his/ her (preferably biblically-based) beliefs on this subject, as I'd like to learn the truth on this subject?

Calvinism is the belief that, when men are born, they are already pre-slated to go to Heaven or Hell. This doctrine entertains the notion that men have no choice in the matter of their eternal destiny.

This is blatantly false because the Bible clearly state that Jesus died to give all the opportunity to accept and receive salvation. The Bible also states that the Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all might obtain eternal life with his dear Son.


John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”


>

 

[Snacks]

I beat up a liberal today. It was my pleasure . . . and my destiny. 😎

 

[Live4Him3]

Until a few years ago, I hadn't encountered Calvinism, instinctively thinking it was a form of operation, like methodism, rather than a belief system. To me, it seems wrong and counter-intuitive, but sometimes, if I'm bombarded with assertions over and over again, I tend to start to wonder - "Am I missing something?" "Is there something in this?".

Would anyone like to give his/ her (preferably biblically-based) beliefs on this subject, as I'd like to learn the truth on this subject?

Hi, Andrew.

I made a pretty long post about Calvinism my first time through here as "Live4Him".

If you're interested in reading it, then you can do so here:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/scriptural-authority.197908/#post-4510024

P.S.

The short answer to your question is "NO! Calvinism is NOT true!"

Jean Calvin was an arch-heretic, and his teachings are an absolute plague upon much of the professing "church".

 

[Lafftur]

Only God’s Word is True…and only the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.

All denominations, including Calvinism are man-made. God’s not in them nor promoting them…He is gathering all His believers from among them.

Follow Jesus Christ, NOT Calvin.
Follow Jesus Christ, NOT man.

To follow Jesus Christ, we need the Holy Spirit- the Spirit of Truth so that we are NOT deceived even when some one comes proclaiming to be the Messiah…or that they know the truth….

Man has created so many different denominations that have only divided and diverted the Body Christ away from Christ…very sad…Calvinism is just another denomination of many.

The whole world needs a shaking and a revival….return our hearts and minds back to God… receive Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King and be filled with the Holy Spirit, and go about doing good destroying the works of the enemy and shining as lights in a dark world.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...All denominations, including Calvinism...

While I fully agree with your post, Calvinism is not a denomination, but is a part of Reformed Theology. And Reformed Theology is associated with Reformed and Presbyterian churches (or denominations). These groups arose during the Reformation. Within the Reformed and Presbyterian churches, there are actually further divisions, with some groups being very liberal and others being very conservative. Reformed Theology is not totally unbiblical, but Calvinism or TULIP is definitely another Gospel. You can find this theology stated in detail in the Westminster Confession of Faith.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jean Calvin was an arch-heretic, and his teachings are an absolute plague upon much of the professing "church".

Strangely enough, when you study Calvin's commentaries on various Gospel passages, he does interpret the Word properly. But then in his Institutes, he does an about face, and contradicts those same comments. For example he agrees that in John 3:16 "world" means the human race, but then he turns around and claims that Christ died only for the elect. So he was clearly double-minded.

 

[greg66]

There is a man on you tube by the name of Leighton Flowers. He is an ex Calvanist that teaches scripture refuting the doctrine of calvanism

 

[AndrewMorgan]

Hi, Andrew.

I made a pretty long post about Calvinism my first time through here as "Live4Him".

If you're interested in reading it, then you can do so here:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/scriptural-authority.197908/#post-4510024

P.S.

The short answer to your question is "NO! Calvinism is NOT true!"

Jean Calvin was an arch-heretic, and his teachings are an absolute plague upon much of the professing "church".

Hi - I've clicked on your link. I intend examining it more closely later when I hopefully will be able to concentrate on it better.
I don't believe Calvinism is the truth, but I've seen and heard a fair bit of footage by James White and the like. Whereas JW seems intelligent and orthodox generally, he embraces Calvinism and talks of it with an air of coherence, without actually "making sense". I'm having some difficulty expressing the situation properly.
One thing I'd like to clarify - When I say "Calvinism", I'm referring to the James White understanding of it, not necessarily that of Calvin himself. I haven't looked into HIS teachings and I understand modern proponents may have "gone further" than he originally proposed.
One thing re. this issue is meanings of particular words.
One thing non-Calvinists point out is that - eg - "all" means "all". This seems obvious, but to be fair to Calvinists, how would one answer the fact that Paul, in Corinthians, says - "In Adam 'all' die and in Christ, 'all' are made alive"? This, in isolation, implies that in this case, "all" doesn't seems to mean "all", as the assumption is that not ALL, but SOME of the human race will be "made alive".
May I ask - Have you ever debated a Calvinist? - formally or informally?

 

[Live4Him3]

May I ask - Have you ever debated a Calvinist? - formally or informally?

You might as well ask "Is the pope Catholic?'.

YES, I've debated NUMEROUS Calvinists over the years, and that includes several "pastors" (Read: HIRELINGS). Most of the "churches" (Read: INDOCTRINATION CAMPS) near me are Calvinist "churches", and I've personally gone head-to-head/face-to-face with their chief HERETICS.

In a nutshell, which is where the NUTJOB Calvin belonged, this is Calvin's "god":

He abducts his bride, then forcibly rapes her while imprisoning her against her own will.

In other words, he takes his bride without her consent, puts his "seed" in her without her consent, and then she can never leave him.

Keep in mind that Christ's covenant with his people is likened to a marriage covenant all throughout scripture.

What would happen if this scenario played out in real life?

The man would be guilty of ABDUCTION, RAPE, AND KIDNAPPING OR IMPRISONING SOMEONE AGAINST THEIR OWN WILL and, hopefully, sentenced to imprisonment.

Anyhow, when you remove all of the trimmings and trappings, this is Calvin's "god".

Calvin's "god" was SATAN.

Make no mistake about that.

 

[phil36]

You might as well ask "Is the pope Catholic?'.

YES, I've debated NUMEROUS Calvinists over the years, and that includes several "pastors" (Read: HIRELINGS). Most of the "churches" (Read: INDOCTRINATION CAMPS) near me are Calvinist "churches", and I've personally gone head-to-head/face-to-face with their chief HERETICS.

In a nutshell, which is where the NUTJOB Calvin belonged, this is Calvin's "god":

He abducts his bride, then forcibly rapes her while imprisoning her against her own will.

In other words, he takes his bride without her consent, puts his "seed" in her without her consent, and then she can never leave him.

Keep in mind that Christ's covenant with his people is likened to a marriage covenant all throughout scripture.

What would happen if this scenario played out in real life?

The man would be guilty of ABDUCTION, RAPE, AND KIDNAPPING OR IMPRISONING SOMEONE AGAINST THEIR OWN WILL and, hopefully, sentenced to imprisonment.

Anyhow, when you remove all of the trimmings and trappings, this is Calvin's "god".

Calvin's "god" was SATAN.

Make no mistake about that.

🙄

 

[phil36]

While I fully agree with your post, Calvinism is not a denomination, but is a part of Reformed Theology. And Reformed Theology is associated with Reformed and Presbyterian churches (or denominations). These groups arose during the Reformation. Within the Reformed and Presbyterian churches, there are actually further divisions, with some groups being very liberal and others being very conservative. Reformed Theology is not totally unbiblical, but Calvinism or TULIP is definitely another Gospel. You can find this theology stated in detail in the Westminster Confession of Faith.

Good observation Nehemiah, yes sadly a lot of denominations have went liberal...(not just reformed) And these liberals within presbyterian circles believe like the semi-pelagian in autonomous free will. There's reformed baptist and then there's the independent churches that are reformed also. So you were correct to say that it is not a denomination.

Of course, independant churches have their fair share of liberals as well.

Regarding the Westminster confession, I've read it and it is not another Gospel. Have you a read it? most actually haven't when they make these claims. The London baptist confession of faith 1689 says basically the same thing as the Westminster - except obviously about baptism and church government.

It's interesting the amount of people that think the reformed follow the man Calvin.. Thats quite absurd..
That would be like me saying that dispensationalists are dabnyites and follow dabny and shofield. Of course that would be quite false and devious of me to say so wouldn't you agree? Even though dispensationalism is a whole system of how to interprit the bible and not just about the end times as believed on the popular level.

AAnyhow, coffee finished and time for some shopping 🛒

 

[Nehemiah6]

Regarding the Westminster confession, I've read it and it is not another Gospel. Have you a read it?

Yes. I have read it and could even quote from where it says that God predestines some for salvation and others for damnation. That is definitely not the Gospel.

 

[Evmur]

you've just described a Robot, which most Calvin followers are just that.

they don't believe in Free Will. when you add Free Will towards anything they claim, you get a different view.

so the real question is simple, does Free Will exist?

if it does, Calvin is a Heretic!
if it does not, Calvin is a Saint!

and we know Free Will exists because Eve chose to eat and God still provided for her. in the end, Eve decided to disobey and God still was her God. He did not abandon her. and we know she continued to follow God because when she gave birth she gave God credit for it.

I am not Calvinist but I do not believe in human freewill.

I am not a robot I am a vessel in whom dwells the Spirit of God, He wills IN ME to do of His good pleasure.

 

[Evmur]

Can you please point out in what way I misrepresented the Calvinist position?

I don't think it is their position that everything that happens is God's will ... I have never read Calvin, but from all my dealings with them.

 

[studentoftheword]

Abraham and Sarah are another example of having a mind to choose their will -----God's will was to have Isaac and they chose to have an Ishmael-by their own means ---they made their choice and bore their own consequences ----

This says God allowed Abraham and Sarah to choose to disobey God's Will and and go with their own free will to choose ----God did not interfere with their decision to have an Ishmael -----He allowed it even though it went against His Wii -----


My opinion here

God is Sovereign ---but understanding this word is and how it applies with God is needed ----God is the ruler over His Kingdom --this earth is part of His kingdom ---God does rule over all His creation ----God allows suffering ----God allows evil ----but God is not the cause of or the author of evil ----God's sovereignty takes the evil that humans do and turns it to good -- The Cross was evil but God in His Sovereignty brought good out of the evil ------

God's Sovereignty stands when it comes to His plan ----no one or no thing will stop God's plan from being executed and God will use anything or anyone to fulfill His plan ---there is no free will for us humans when it comes to God's executing His will to bring about His desired plan ----which is still playing out ----

----- God has a soul ----which is a mind ---a will and emotions ----He chooses what He chooses to do ----God gave humans a soul ---a mind --a will and emotions -----and we are made in His Image ---so like Him we can choose what we want to do He gave us the right to choose ---right from wrong ----obedience or disobedience -----good from evil ----the right to choose who we follow ----and the right to choose our destiny in our end ------God gave us a conscience and that conscience works even with our Corrupt nature ------God told Cain that his twisted thinking and emotions would lead him down the wrong path ----Cain then make his own choice to go down that wrong path ----God allowed him to have his way but not without consequences ------

So AndrewMorgan you have the right to choose to follow the Calvinist Religion as you have free will to do so --but is it the right choice ???---Will following man's Religious ideas and scripture picking to suit their thinking get you to the right destination in your end -----

That is the real important Question your free Will to choose must decide ------

 

[AndrewMorgan]

I don't think it is their position that everything that happens is God's will ... I have never read Calvin, but from all my dealings with them.

First, to clarify - When I say "Calvinism", I mean the likes of modern-day Calvinism, such as James White and the like, not Calvin himself. I'm not sure what HIS position was, but I think modern proponents of Calvinism have "gone further" than what he originally proposed. After listening to many debates with James White and the like, I can't believe these people don't believe that everything is God's will, even the thoughts, desires and actions of man.
I don't know if you've got evidence that I'm wrong - and I'm happy to read any such material if you'd care to send me or direct me to any.

 

[kaylagrl]

I tend to stay away from anything that John Calvin taught about Christianity or the Church. You can tell a tree by it's fruits and Calvin was an evil man, a murderer. John Calvin: Heresy Hunter with an Axe to Grind | A Theology in Tension

It's the same reason that I stay away from anything to do with the Anglican Church. It's founder, Henry VIII, was also deeply evil, another mass murderer.

How can anyone follow a church whose founder is a mass murderer??????? Beats me11111111111

Wow! I thought I had read something like this many years ago. Thanks for sharing, I had forgotten.

 

[kaylagrl]

A beautifully true verse and addressed to Us-ward 😉

____________________________________





If we follow your logic we will have nothing to do with king who sits on David's throne.. For David murdered an innocent man to hide his sin of adultery.

And yet the bible says David was a man after God's own heart.

Of course none of us would be foolish to say we follow any man except the one who is the Christ Our Lord and saviour.

No thats different from saying that we can agree or disagree with a man's teaching regarding scripture. In fact, would you not want people to believe you when you teach them the gospel (that's if indeed you share it). If they agree with it does not mean they worship you or follow you.

David was punished for his sin and he repented of it. Either way, Calvinism is not Biblical.