Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?

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ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
Apr 1, 2014
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Arizona
#21
Well at that point I think the oldest Christian doctrine was in the early churches. “We preach Christ crucified.” It didn’t need a label at that point, it was just a Christ follower.
 

Searcher92

Junior Member
Apr 8, 2014
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#22
Coptic church was based in Alexandria going back to the first century

Ethiopian church is based in Ethiopia.

both places had long traditions of Judaism which were places the Apostles went first. some believe Acts 8 27 may be the beginning of the Ethiopian church.
Do they also call it Ethiopian Orthodox? I've heard of this, I think. There are many Orthodox churches like Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox and what not.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#23
Christ birthed an organism not an organization. The church is the body of Christ and the bride of Christ. The popes claim to being the head of the church and the vicar of Christ is bogus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#24
Your faith comes as a schism of Lutheranism and not even the original Lutheranism (unless you are Lutheran) but the versions that broke off after Lutheranism, yet you claim superiority of your Christian faith over the original practices?
there's a large degree of assumption in this comment

what do you know about Blue's faith? maybe she doesn't get her tenets from any organized denomination, but from what she reads in the scripture, and what the Spirit reveals to her. if this is the case, her faith comes from God, not from any human bishop.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#25
Contrary to popular belief, the pope is not some infallible person, but his expertise and study in the book is what lets him decide what is right and what is true for Catholics.
that's not what the Catholic church teaches.

https://www.catholic.com/tract/papal-infallibility

the dogma is that when the pope makes proclamations concerning doctrine, he has by virtue of the Holy Spirit ((not by virtue of scholarship)) infallible opinion owing to his special position as pope.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
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#26
Do they also call it Ethiopian Orthodox?
yes im pretty sure its the same
I've heard of this, I think. There are many Orthodox churches like Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox and what not.
it can get a little confusing. the russia orthodox was started (i think) by roman / east orthodox, one or the other, and has always been under that umbrella.
Alexandria and Ethiopia both had churches before imperial rome took control of the faith. both are pre roman and ancient. however eventually Alexandria would become absorbed under rome, they continued to have different doctrines and rituals and operate as a kind of different denomination.
the Ethiopia church was connected to the Coptic church in the early days but not sure how close their beliefs were.
 

Searcher92

Junior Member
Apr 8, 2014
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#27
there's a large degree of assumption in this comment

what do you know about Blue's faith? maybe she doesn't get her tenets from any organized denomination, but from what she reads in the scripture, and what the Spirit reveals to her. if this is the case, her faith comes from God, not from any human bishop.
Well, I assume that based on an educated guess, haha. If she's not Catholic, then she belongs to one which comes after Martin Luther or to the Eastern Orthodox, but you can spot a person based on what they say, and I'm assuming she comes from one after Martin Luther.

yes im pretty sure its the same


it can get a little confusing. the russia orthodox was started (i think) by roman / east orthodox, one or the other, and has always been under that umbrella.
Alexandria and Ethiopia both had churches before imperial rome took control of the faith. both are pre roman and ancient. however eventually Alexandria would become absorbed under rome, they continued to have different doctrines and rituals and operate as a kind of different denomination.
the Ethiopia church was connected to the Coptic church in the early days but not sure how close their beliefs were.
From what I understand (and I'm by no means completely an expert on the subject because I just recently began learning about it), they all kind of fall into the same category even if they have different rituals and what not. For example, Russian Orthodox priests grow their hair long, but you don't see this with Greek Orthodox. I know the least about the Ethiopian Orthodoxy. I would like to learn more, however, because my goal is not to have a single doctrine but to learn and make up my own mind from there.

I come off as Catholic in this thread, but I'm actually not, haha. I'm learning from all sects of Christianity, so I'm probably non-denominational.

I find the differences in the types of Christianity as fascinating expressions of God. Some of these posters want to start a fight though or denounce something or come off as hostile right from the get-go, rather than learn, and I'm not here to start a fight, lol. I just want to learn, haha.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#28
Why do people stray from it if it were the original Christian doctrine? How does one know one's Christian walk is true with thousands of Christian sects each purporting to be the truth and damning other sects to hell? Why do we put so much faith in our own opinions and call it God's opinion? Doesn't Christianity claim value to humility? How does thinking our opinion is God's opinion classify as such?
Without looking at history but the Bible how could the Roman Catholic Church begin when the Church started if the Roman Empire was persecuting Christians, and have not yet embraced Christianity yet as a state religion.

Which in the Bible I do not see where the Romans embraced Christianity as a state Church.

According to the Catholic tradition, the history of the Catholic Church begins with Jesus Christ and his teachings (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30) and the Catholic Church is a continuation of the early Christian community established by the Disciples of Jesus.

This does not make sense for how can the Catholic start 4 BC which is before Christ is born.

And John had to prepare Israel for the coming of Jesus, but he did not prepare the Gentiles, so how could the Roman Catholic Church be going on at that time.

And the Roman Empire was against Christianity at the time of Jesus being on earth so how can the Catholic Church of started during the time of Jesus' life on earth.

And also Jesus said He was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel, and said salvation is of the Jews, so how could the Catholic Church begin while Jesus was on earth.

And after Jesus died the Romans were against Christianity and did not even embrace it yet as a state religion, but fought against it for many years before they gave heed to it and made it a state religion.

The Roman Catholic Church wants power and control so they will say they are the first Church.

Like England believes the throne of David moved to England giving them the God given right to rule, and the Royal family descendants of David, and from the tribe of Judah.

This world is all about wanting power and control for the world is motivated by self exaltation so that is how they will operate and many will want to believe things that are not true to support their quest for power and control, and self exaltation.

There may of been a Church that was established in Roman territory but the Roman Empire itself did not embrace it at the time of early Church history so it does not count that the first Church is the Roman Catholic Church for the Romans for the most part, and the government did not approve of it.

Just because a Church is in Rome and a few Romans embrace it does not make the Church started by the Romans.

Just like a Church being established in any other part of the world during early Church history and a few natives embrace it does not mean it was started by their nation.

Jesus said that He was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel, not the Gentiles, and salvation is of the Jews and when a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward, and part of the commonwealth of Israel.

So the Church started in Israel and among the Jews, not from the Romans, and just because they start a small Church in early Church history, or maybe a few Churches, and a few natives of that nation embrace it does not mean it started from their nation, and their people.

In 313 AD, Emperor Constantine legalized Christianity in the Roman Empire. A religion developed on the belief in the coming of the Christ (Messiah in Jerusalem), Christianity started as a denomination in Judaism based on the teachings of Jesus, a young Jewish rabbi in Nazareth.

This is what history teaches, so if Christianity was not legalized until 313 in the Roman Empire how could it start at the time of Jesus being on earth, or at the day of Pentecost, or during the first century.

For a few Romans believing Christianity in the first century does not qualify it to be started by the Roman Catholic Church, especially when it would only apply if the Roman Empire was behind it.

But the Roman Empire persecuted the Christians for quite a while after the Church started.

And the Church started with the Jews which we know as fact.

This world cannot cease from exalting itself, and it will not cease until Jesus puts them down which at that time humanity is at their worse, which the Bible says when the transgressors are come to the full, which is the falling away of the world which they stopped the Gospel from being preached in the world when the nations came together as one to work for peace on earth.

For when the New Age Christ establishes peace between the Jews and Palestinians then he will push the agenda of the new age movement until they rebel against God.

People have become more selfish, arrogant, and self exalting, as time went on that now many interpret the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving to be greater and spiritual provided by the New Age Christ.

And the Pope and the Vatican will go right along with it when the New Age Christ pushes the agenda of the new age movement in the world.

But they are already going along with it and introducing small portions of the new age movement to try to get the religions to harmonize, favoring Islam, but will come out with it in the full when the New Age Christ establishes peace in the Middle East, and supporting the new age movement.

People will never learn, and it appears as if the Roman Empire, as well as England move as the people move, and if they cannot beat the opposition of the people that are growing more in number of going against the government and their ways that they go along with the people so they can still maintain power and control.

Which the occult started interpreting the Bible and all religions according to evolution, and no personal God, and the Renaissance period where secular humanism was becoming popular it appears like they are going along with it to stay in power and control for it seems like they move as the people move.

And now they are ready to revert back to the time before they embraced Christianity with it's pagan and occult ways, but this time more arrogant, and self exalting than at that time for they took out a personal God and their interpretation is based on the exaltation of people with no higher authority above them.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
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#29
Well, I assume that based on an educated guess, haha. If she's not Catholic, then she belongs to one which comes after Martin Luther or to the Eastern Orthodox, but you can spot a person based on what they say, and I'm assuming she comes from one after Martin Luther.



From what I understand (and I'm by no means completely an expert on the subject because I just recently began learning about it), they all kind of fall into the same category even if they have different rituals and what not. For example, Russian Orthodox priests grow their hair long, but you don't see this with Greek Orthodox. I know the least about the Ethiopian Orthodoxy. I would like to learn more, however, because my goal is not to have a single doctrine but to learn and make up my own mind from there.

I come off as Catholic in this thread, but I'm actually not, haha. I'm learning from all sects of Christianity, so I'm probably non-denominational.

I find the differences in the types of Christianity as fascinating expressions of God. Some of these posters want to start a fight though or denounce something or come off as hostile right from the get-go, rather than learn, and I'm not here to start a fight, lol. I just want to learn, haha.
The russian long hair is a culture tradition going back to the medieval days when russian nobility wore the long kafkan (have no idea how to spell that) robes, long beards and long hair, Peter the great was known for cutting off these beards as public spectacles as he thought they were a sign of russias backwardness which he hated.

I like history so I have always read about these things. Ethiopia has always been interesting, they were rooted into Judaism going back to the first temple era, part of the first century Christian movement and they were the only contry in Africa never colonized by Europe, lucky them.

I have always believed Catholics are just the same as all the other Christians. They have always had some corrupt leadership but thats in every church.

The first Christian church IMO was the first church of Jerusalem lead by James the brother of Jesus.
 

Searcher92

Junior Member
Apr 8, 2014
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9
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#30
Which makes me think, this is probably not the forum for me.
The russian long hair is a culture tradition going back to the medieval days when russian nobility wore the long kafkan (have no idea how to spell that) robes, long beards and long hair, Peter the great was known for cutting off these beards as public spectacles as he thought they were a sign of russias backwardness which he hated.

I like history so I have always read about these things. Ethiopia has always been interesting, they were rooted into Judaism going back to the first temple era, part of the first century Christian movement and they were the only contry in Africa never colonized by Europe, lucky them.

I have always believed Catholics are just the same as all the other Christians. They have always had some corrupt leadership but thats in every church.

The first Christian church IMO was the first church of Jerusalem lead by James the brother of Jesus.
Interesting, I didn't know the reasons for it, but I always found that a peculiar point of interest, haha. The reason I know more about Russian Orthodox is because I read a book on Peter the Great(my first introduction to Orthodoxy), haha. :D Orthodox churches are very beautiful.

I will look more into Ethiopian Orthodox because I have kind of the same mindset as you. I also didn't know that about Ethiopia and not being colonized. How did they avoid it?

My belief is like we're all Christians
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#31
If an expert on the coronavirus tells me that there will be an epidemic if we don't take action, and some average Joe tells me that it is all hype, who do I believe?

Contrary to popular belief, the pope is not some infallible person, but his expertise and study in the book is what lets him decide what is right and what is true for Catholics. They do this to eliminate the confusion found in Protestantism where you have no actual set doctrines, which is a problem. Look at the churches that promote homosexuality as okay and then the churches that still say it is wrong. Who's right?
God is right, and I don't need your wicked God denying pope to tell me so. Let's put all this fleshly nonsense to the side, have you been born again? I couldn't care less about a pope, do you KNOW Jesus. Are you spiritually resurrected and reconciled to God as you were created to be? Are you these things right now?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#32
Why do people stray from it if it were the original Christian doctrine?
That "if" is important. The fact is that it is NOT original Christian doctrine.

As to the question in the title, the Greek Orthodox Church has a more valid claim to being the oldest. Catholicism came out of the Orthodox Church when the church of Rome tried to dominate all the other churches.
 

Searcher92

Junior Member
Apr 8, 2014
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#33
God is right, and I don't need your wicked God denying pope to tell me so. Let's put all this fleshly nonsense to the side, have you been born again? I couldn't care less about a pope, do you KNOW Jesus. Are you spiritually resurrected and reconciled to God as you were created to be? Are you these things right now?
God denying? What is this post? xD Truly? xD You are aware the pope teaches from the Bible? The same one you read from hopefully every day. Jesus is in the Catholic story and the nativity story as much as yours. The story didn't change. I know you'd like to deny that fact, but it's quintessential to remember that arrogance is a sin.

...yes, that goes with the Bible. Let's get rid of wisdom and learning. It's all fleshly non-sense, huh?


And I don't have to answer condescending questions. You're not my God, and your judgment means nothing to me. I'm done with this forum.

I will seek truth in a place more conducive to it.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#34
Catholics confuse ritual and superstition for grace and truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#35
God denying? What is this post? xD Truly? xD You are aware the pope teaches from the Bible? The same one you read from hopefully every day. Jesus is in the Catholic story and the nativity story as much as yours. The story didn't change. I know you'd like to deny that fact, but it's quintessential to remember that arrogance is a sin.

...yes, that goes with the Bible. Let's get rid of wisdom and learning. It's all fleshly non-sense, huh?


And I don't have to answer condescending questions. You're not my God, and your judgment means nothing to me. I'm done with this forum.

I will seek truth in a place more conducive to it.
Pope Francis changes the bible.

Now Pope Francis has risked the wrath of traditionalists by approving a change to the wording of the Lord’s Prayer. Instead of saying “lead us not into temptation”, it will say “do not let us fall into temptation”.
Denying God and exulting man. Just one I could find quickly.
Running from truth I see. If you're not born again you do no know Him. I'm sorry the truth hurts, but the pope assumes he occupies gods role on earth. Just wow, and you worship him without even realizing you're doing so. Then you come here to start trouble and run at the smallest question. Not a very impressive representative of your church.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#36
The heretic belongs with the one who has no evidence for their beliefs.

Does debate scare you so much that you can't see the value in opposing views? Or are you afraid of the truth like a child afraid of its own shadow? Or that you have no facts to back up your position? Your religion came after Catholicism. That is truth.

What actual church was there before the Roman Catholics, besides this mystery "early church" that Protestants can't claim from any Christian denomination.

Here's a fact for you:

"Peter the Apostle, original name Simeon or Simon, (died 64 ce, Rome [Italy] ), disciple of Jesus Christ, recognized in the early Christian church as the leader of the 12 disciples and by the Roman Catholic Church as the first of its unbroken succession of popes. "
Here's a fact for you: I have been doing apologetics for over a dozen years, the majority of years being largely exclusively with non-believers, so your pretentious deprecatory allusions to my being fearful, scared, and devoid of facts are the product of your own delusional thinking and amount to false accusations.

Thank you for admitting that the Catholic church cannot make any claim on the original church.

Another fact: Peter did not consider himself a leader but a follower of Christ and an equal among peers. Peter was a servant of Christ, and preached the gospel of Christ. He is not the rock Jesus said the church is built upon. The rock is Jesus, and there is none other.

I must also inform you that if you continue down this road, you will be banned, and as I have no desire to engage on your level, I shall say my good byes to you now. Adios!

PS~ making up your own erroneous definitions for words does not help your case.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#37
God denying? What is this post? xD Truly? xD You are aware the pope teaches from the Bible? The same one you read from hopefully every day. Jesus is in the Catholic story and the nativity story as much as yours. The story didn't change. I know you'd like to deny that fact, but it's quintessential to remember that arrogance is a sin.

...yes, that goes with the Bible. Let's get rid of wisdom and learning. It's all fleshly non-sense, huh?


And I don't have to answer condescending questions. You're not my God, and your judgment means nothing to me. I'm done with this forum.

I will seek truth in a place more conducive to it.
LOL and you said "You're not my God", nope there is another son of Adam in that role, Mr. Francis holds that title in your life, no different than if "I" was though.
 

Bbrdrd

Active member
Apr 2, 2020
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#38
If there is an original Christian church(which I'm not sure there is) it seems to me the one church that still reads the New Testament in its original language and still reads documents from the earliest Christians regularly would be it, not the church that forgot the Greek and tried to make Latin the universal language of worship. Most of the disputes in the western church come down to issues of semantics and trying to force analogies to be the whole picture.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,090
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#40
Do they also call it Ethiopian Orthodox? I've heard of this, I think. There are many Orthodox churches like Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox and what not.
Orthodox churches are all very similar, but because of their locations, they have these different names.