Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Athanasius377

Active member
Aug 20, 2020
129
50
28
Northern Kentucky
The Athanasian Creed:
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascendedinto heaven, he sittethon the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
Friend, you really need to read a history on the church. The communion of Saints are those believers who came before. Not a patron saint, but those who received their eternal reward. Part of the church triumphant.

And your doctrine of the incarnation as I read it is heretical. Christ is both 100% God and 100% man in hypostatic union. He is Lower than the Father as to touching his humanity and equal to father in touching his Godhead. If he’s less than God then he can’t make atonement for the sins of the world.
Job in chapter 9 informs us that God is not a man and neither is there any infallible fleshly umpire that sits between God not seen and man seen. Called a Pope today or what Job calls a daysman .

Even Jesus the Son of man refused to be called Good Master siting in the holy place of faith as eternal God as an infallible teacher. The word Good throughout the bible is the signature of the unseen God . ."let there be and it was good" after each work of his faith . Again Good defines God. The Holy Spirit of the father worked in the Son of man. The power that worked in his earthen body of death to do the will was not of the apostle Jesus . Jesus did not do the will of the flesh, being empowered by the Holy father in heavens he performed the will of the Father not seen..

We have the bible as the final authority in maters of faith the unseen eternal. It is the one source of Christ faith that works in those who believe. It alone informs us of Church history as the witness of God .Which is greater than the witness of men

A lower position as the Son of man. Not a lower person .it takes two to walk in agreement as one in a government of peace . The loving authority and the submissive work both working together in perfect harmony .It gives us the peace that surpasses all understanding, giving us his understanding, the hearing of faith. He informs us his corrupted flesh he inherited from His mother, our sister in the lord Mary, profits for zero. Its the empowering work of the unseen father that alone could profit.

I am aware of both popular reformations (1st and 15th) they came because men had another authroity as a law of the fathers. . . venerable men who lord it over the faith of the non venerable pew sitters .A Devine authority . Not the kind of government of Christ. But rather according to them "the law of the fathers"

It is not a greater than the authority of sola scriptura. Both times sola scriptura reformed the government of the peace of God. Two attributes working together as one God who is eternal Spirit , the father of all living spirits .
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,961
1,001
113
No other member of the 12 or those who they hand the faith down to are the first to receive the interior guidance promised to reach All Truth.

So Jesus Changes his name to unite him to his mission and gives the keys to Peter first. Firsts are very important in biblical language.

He asks only Peter to feed His Sheep.

Peter is the only Apostle Satan got to sift. Jesus prophecies Peter's recovery and told him to comfort the others.

Many firsts for the one the Father united Himself to so that Peter would know Jesus as His Son. Peter said "You are the Son of the living God."

Later Satan was able to exploit Peter's clinging to divine Fatherhood and Jesus had to help him discern what was happening to him.
Key to heaven is john 3:16
Key is a tool to open. How you go to heaven? Jesus say whosoever believe will go to heaven

So every believer have the key. Peter have the key when he believe Jesus is the Son of God and so does every body that believe Jesus have the key.

What is spiritual feed mean? To preach the gospel is to spiritual feed the sheep.

Not only Peter did this job. Every apostle and believer do.

I believe Jesus say that to Peter because Peter was denied Jesus, who ever deny Jesus in public, jesus will deny him in front of the Father.
But Peter cry, regret than Jesus forgive him and declare him back as one of the disciples do feed the sheep.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
The Athanasian Creed:
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascendedinto heaven, he sittethon the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.
Why do they teach that Mary alone who they call the queen of heaven and we call our sister in Christ. That she alone received the fullness of born again grace .And the rest of Catholics receive a unknow remnant and must continue to wonder and suffer for another unknown never coming to the end of faith the fulness of grace . Why are not all mankind born again signifying the fulness of grace. Where do find he only gave a remnant of grace to some and they must continue to wonder and surfer and wonder and suffer to no end?
It would seem the verse below could be one possibility.

Wonders bring lies prophecy the word of God declared the answer of faith. No need to wonder, wonder, wonder when strengthened by faith .

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,961
1,001
113
No other member of the 12 or those who they hand the faith down to are the first to receive the interior guidance promised to reach All Trut
What do you mean by
1 interior guidance
2 what verse say Peter receive interior guidance
3 you believe Peter know all truth
4 what do you mean by all truth
5 why you believe Paul and other apostle not receive all truth
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,961
1,001
113
Luke was not one of 12 disciple or apostle, but Luke feed million from gospel of Luke.

Peter not wrote one of the 4 gospel.

And catholic beLieve only Peter feed the sheep. That is nothing but lie.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
Peter means rock.

Because the Father revealed Jesus as His Son.

Divine Revelation given from heaven to one of the twelve.
That indicated who would be the steward in His absence.
The steward carries the authority of His Lord when the Lord is absent.
Faith the unseen will of God that is needed to to believe our Devine God not seen does not come from Peter any more than does it come from Jesus the apostle . Jesus the apostle did not come to do His own will.

.Faith the unseen comes from the Lord the unseen father.. Usurping his authority by given it to men seen is another gospel another christ( anti) called the Pope. We are to venerate God not seen and not corrupted mankind seen that live in a earthen body of death . Peter is not the power of God that works in us.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Divine revelation is given to all children of God its what works in them to both will and do His good pleasure. .The power to believe is not of them(flesh and blood) lest any man boast in false pride .

Like the example of prideful Peter under the influence of the Satan the god of this world of this world .He must of thought the "it" in regard to that in which the gates of hell could never prevail against was of his own self . And not the spoken gospel. He is shown throughout the new testament as a serial denier . Denying both the father and the Son again and again . .The gospel key is given to all who have ben born again

19-23 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the son of man Jesus . blasphemy against the unseen Holy Spirit that worked in Jesus and all believers is not forgivable.

Why would anyone desire to serve a person who rebukes the unseen father our Lord as the power that worked in his apostle Jesus ? They deny the father and the Son

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

In that way Catholics has made our unseen Holy Father, Holy See. . . to no effect . . .usurping the unseen authority and have given it to the legion of fathers .(3500 and rising workers with familiar spirts called patron saints. ) the foundation of necromancy .No need in Catholisicim for a heavenly Holy Father. Just walk by sight and pretend the kingdom does come by observation..
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,362
2,111
113
I agree. The Catholic Church is not a de nomination.
The reformers are the de- named.
wrong! if the Romans did not make Christianity a belief of the state the organized Christianity which the RCC is the first would not have been. You can't have it both ways guy You can't be the " first church" and not be the error that came with it. Like Paganism that was embraced by the RCC because it was the state religion. the RCC is not the Early Church Model as we see in the Book of Acts. it is the first example of a horrendous ERROR of Mixing Government with the Church of the Living God. the RCC became CHRINO's and that is the historical truth.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,362
2,111
113
Catholics are Christians because they believe in the Apostles' Creed. They have some other practices but it doesn't negate from the fact they are Christians. Most of the Supreme Court is Catholic, and Trump is planning to nominate another.
https://time.com/4040450/pope-francis-us-visit-catholic-lawmakers/
we are not saved by the Apostles Creed. The creed what created to combat those who called themselves Christians and were part of the state acceptance which did not leave their pagan beliefs. The church saw the " State Church" was an error and was fighting to remove themselves from what great error they have done. FYI the RCC was not all on the right side of them IF they were why does the RCC of Today still have the Rome leadership model? because they are unbiblical.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,362
2,111
113
wrong! if the Romans did not make Christianity a belief of the state the organized Christianity which the RCC is the first would not have been. You can't have it both ways guy. You can't be the " first church" and not be the error that came with it. Like Paganism that was embraced by the RCC because it was the state religion. The RCC is not the Early Church Model as we see in the Book of Acts. it is the first example of a horrendous ERROR of Mixing Government with the Church of the Living God. the RCC became "CHRINO's" and that is the historical truth.
there you go :p
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
1,117
783
113
we are not saved by the Apostles Creed. The creed what created to combat those who called themselves Christians and were part of the state acceptance which did not leave their pagan beliefs. The church saw the " State Church" was an error and was fighting to remove themselves from what great error they have done. FYI the RCC was not all on the right side of them IF they were why does the RCC of Today still have the Rome leadership model? because they are unbiblical.
I agree the the RCC is bloated and the Pope is too political. The Catholic beliefs are supported by the Apocrypha, so it is not like they are pulling these beliefs out of thin air. I believe the everyday Catholics are Christians. There are many corrupt churches like some megachurches and maybe even our own churches, but that doesn't mean the attendees are nonChristian.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,362
2,111
113
I agree the the RCC is bloated and the Pope is too political. The Catholic beliefs are supported by the Apocrypha, so it is not like they are pulling these beliefs out of thin air. I believe the everyday Catholics are Christians. There are many corrupt churches like some megachurches and maybe even our own churches, but that doesn't mean the attendees are nonChristian.
excuse me, please do not use the "Apocrypha" to establish Biblical authority in context to the " Church of the Living God". the Apocrypha doesn't produce the Church setting as the four Gospels and the book of Acts and the remaining Epistles written by Paul, Peter, and john. Eyewitnesses of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Also I am not talking about people who call themselves catholics and have had a born agin experience, I am speaking about the pride that is associated with the RCC on been the first " Church" . They were not. They are the first " State Church" accepted by Rome as it is the only one they have today. It is that simple. And true.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,362
2,111
113
I agree the the RCC is bloated and the Pope is too political. The Catholic beliefs are supported by the Apocrypha, so it is not like they are pulling these beliefs out of thin air. I believe the everyday Catholics are Christians. There are many corrupt churches like some megachurches and maybe even our own churches, but that doesn't mean the attendees are nonChristian.
and not every catholic is a christian but everyone who has accepted Jesu Christ as Lord are and there are those who are catholic who are saved. BUT we can't all no more than we can say all baptist & pentecostals are.
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,376
306
83
Did you mean a different understanding, another meaning? Or the meaning hid in a parable?
I'm sure you are aware that Scriptures have layers of meaning. The layers below the surface reveal what was happening in a more comprehensive way or in a light that permeates the experience of those involved. In short a deeper understanding is becoming more aware of God's perspective. If a deeper meaning contradicts what was always taught it is not a deeper understanding of what has always been believed but something not ever believed before. Both a development of faith or a different faith can cause
I believe that many more than just one of the twelve had divine revelation.
I agree. They were all getting divine revelation from Jesus. Not one of the twelve experienced it interiorly until Peter declared Jesus Son of God. That is why the door was opened and keys given. As long as Jesus is with them there is no Divine Revelation for the Apostles except Jesus. He is the Revelation of God.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,353
6,702
113
I believe the everyday Catholics are Christians.
A genuine Christian is a child of God through the New Birth. Not all Catholics are born-again Christians. Those who have been regenerated also have their eyes opened to the truth, and generally leave the Catholic Church. But if you meant Christian by identifying with a Christian denomination, that is another matter.
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,376
306
83
You can't have it both ways guy You can't be the " first church" and not be the error that came with i
therein lies the error. According to Jesus there is no 'second' Church. He promised to preserve them until He returned.
You don't believe that God can live up to His promises to the Church? Or He needed some man at an arbitrary point in time to restore a work He began?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,362
2,111
113
I'm sure you are aware that Scriptures have layers of meaning. The layers below the surface reveal what was happening in a more comprehensive way or in a light that permeates the experience of those involved. In short a deeper understanding is becoming more aware of God's perspective. If a deeper meaning contradicts what was always taught it is not a deeper understanding of what has always been believed but something not ever believed before. Both a development of faith or a different faith can cause
I agree. They were all getting divine revelation from Jesus. Not one of the twelve experienced it interiorly until Peter declared Jesus Son of God. That is why the door was opened and keys given. As long as Jesus is with them there is no Divine Revelation for the Apostles except Jesus. He is the Revelation of God.
Jesus did not make salvation so deep that no one get to it. No deeper meaning of man can contradict the word of God.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,961
1,001
113
I agree the the RCC is bloated and the Pope is too political. The Catholic beliefs are supported by the Apocrypha, so it is not like they are pulling these beliefs out of thin air. I believe the everyday Catholics are Christians. There are many corrupt churches like some megachurches and maybe even our own churches, but that doesn't mean the attendees are nonChristian.
Depend, if the atendess are pray to Mary, believe in purgatory than they aren't christian