Is Christ's church divided?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Both of you refuse to put into your understanding the kind of grace and mercy that God exercises toward sinful man that is revealed by these scriptural illustrations, that have been given to us by God through the Holy Spirit. You do not consider their godly value to your understanding because you both live in relevant righteousness based upon the moral dictates of your own conscience and not a conscience that is regulated by the nature and whole counsel of God. This is why you bring in labels such as 'free grace' and 'easy believism', because of your standards of relevant righteousness that puts restrictions of morality that violates those standards. Measure up or we judge.

You both have the same 'elder brother' spirit that is illustrated in (Luke 15:25-32)...

25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing. 26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant . 27 And he said unto him , Thy brother is come ; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound . 28 And he was angry , and would not go in : therefore came his father out , and intreated him. 29 And he answering said to his father, Lo , these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: 30 But as soon as this thy son was come , which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. 31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.32 It was meet that we should make merry , and be glad : for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again ; and was lost , and is found .

The elder brother, who dud his duty and lived a moral and upright life compared to his younger brother, was angry because of how the father treated his prodigal son with mercy after he had gone out and live a despicable life of sin with harlots and others forms of riotous living. Can you tell me the fruit of repentance that we see with the prodigal son who had returned home? Don't you think that the father was premature in slaying the fatted calf and giving him the robe, the shoes and the ring? Don't you think that this prodigal son needed a time of probation to prove himself before they had this great celebration of joy in the father's house?

The only thing I can preclude by your posts is that you believe the books of James and Jude should be erased from Gods word.

It is a sad thing when people pick and chose which parts of scripture is true, and which parts we disregard.

ps. the prodigal son is not in question. Yet we have already shown this. Your continued case of bringing him up to prove your point proves you do not want to discuss scripture and what scripture says, but you own alterior motives. Which is to prove LBG wrong at all cost.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
When a man is deluded he is going to lie and exaggerate what others say to prove an empty point. That's what the human heart does when it is filled with its own ways and vanity. LBG has a problem with grasping the immensity of God's great mercies and the goodness of God toward sinners. Here are some of the verses that are being referred to...

Rom 8:28
2Cor 4:15
2Cor 5:18

These verses have been misapplied in his own mind and has attributed that understanding to me. It happens all the time because the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. This does not ever surprise me and it does nothing to edify the body of Christ or magnify Christ in the believer. Just another stooge acting out of his own insecurity and dissimulation through his vain imaginations.

LBG, just remember it is always the goodness of God through longsuffering and forbearance that leads men to repentance, not your foolish and unwise understanding based on relevant righteousness (Rom 4:2).

PS - You ought to change your 'nic' to LBRR.
LBG is not denying God is long suffering. and willing that non should perish. He is asking you a basic question. A question which shows that James was correct. that a man who says he has faith, but has no works has a dead faith and is not saved.

Your problem is in your continued attempt to prove him wrong. You are making James out to be a liar. If James lied, the whole scripture is a facade and can not be believed!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
When a man is deluded he is going to lie and exaggerate what others say to prove an empty point. That's what the human heart does when it is filled with its own ways and vanity. LBG has a problem with grasping the immensity of God's great mercies and the goodness of God toward sinners. Here are some of the verses that are being referred to...

Rom 8:28
2Cor 4:15
2Cor 5:18

These verses have been misapplied in his own mind and has attributed that understanding to me. It happens all the time because the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. This does not ever surprise me and it does nothing to edify the body of Christ or magnify Christ in the believer. Just another stooge acting out of his own insecurity and dissimulation through his vain imaginations.

LBG, just remember it is always the goodness of God through longsuffering and forbearance that leads men to repentance, not your foolish and unwise understanding based on relevant righteousness (Rom 4:2).

PS - You ought to change your 'nic' to LBRR.
So let us be clear

Are you denying that you have in the past posted a comment where you stated that God may be the instagator/cause of when we fall so that his unlimited mercy and grace can be seen by others towards us

The answer is yes or no, and if you do not clearly reply yes or no I am sure people will draw their own conclusions

All I can say is if you have not the courage to stand on your own convictions and beliefs you must have a shallow Christianity

As foir the above verses being misapplied by me and I have attributed that understanding to you, this is absurd, I did not know until now the destructive force of pride in a persons life. It is damaging you in my opinion terribly.

I will say no more, it is not my place, but I do believe you have many issues in your life that need dealing with, I hope you one day will be able to admit this
 
E

EverlastingChange

Guest
There has been divisions in the church since Paul was around. Why do you think he wrote all those letters to different churches addressing such things which make up about a quarter of the new testament. An example is:

For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. - 2 Corinthians 12:20

OR

You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? - 1Corrinthians 3:3

Does this sound like a church without division? If there was division as early as then, you can be assured there will be division now, in fact more so. The bible tells us this.
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant . 27 And he said unto him , Thy brother is come ; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound . 28 And he was angry , and would not go in : therefore came his father out , and intreated him. 29 And he answering said to his father, Lo , these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: 30 But as soon as this thy son was come , which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. 31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.32 It was meet that we should make merry , and be glad : for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again ; and was lost , and is found .

quote]


Let us look at the TRUE meaning of the prodigal son

He DESERTED/ABANDONED his Father and went to spend his money on wild living, prostitutes and parties.

When he came to his senses and repented/regretted what he had done he RETURNED TO HIS FATHER who was filled with compassion for him and threw his arms around him.

When the older brother complained to his Father what did his Father reply?

This brother of yours WAS DEAD and is alive again HE WAS LOST and is found

But according to you the man in the ten year example could not have been dead or lost because he was in a saved state

You are either saved or unsaved, a Christian or not a Christian.

You cannot be dead from your Fathers point of view if you are alive in Christ.

And if you are in a saved state you are alive in Christ.

Did the son come back to his Father intend on sleeping with prostitutes or having wild parties? No

You make a mockery of the cross and the sacrifice of Christ with what you suggest, for you CANNOT admit you are wrong. I repeat, I know of no Christian who would believe such a man as desribed over a ten year period could be in a saved state during that time and I have been to churches twice as long as you have been saved.

Maybe you want to be seen as someone who hasd revelation from scripture that others do not have so you can preach/teach truth to
those who do not understand.

Paul is clear in the verses from Corinthians I quoted to you concerning drunkards and adulterers, you refuse to accept what Paul wrote
EG has pointed out to you what James and Jude wrote and you refuse to accept that also, so no wonder you will not listen to us
 
Last edited:

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Remember, Satan's lie is that God is not a loving God but an evil dictator who wants us to fulfill his evil desires by making us do what he says or else!

It is satans greatest victory that he still get people to see God this way, and not the truly loving god he is, and the father he wants to be from all of us. You would think God sending his son to die for such evil people who are deserving of judgment would show us God loves us as a "daddy" But people still do not get it.
nope.
seems like some folks either quickly forget they were to drawn Calvary by GRACE and raised to eternal life from spiritual death (while they were still blind) by a Sovereign God, OR they draw right up to the Door and do not enter in because they do not believe IT IS A GIFT...no faith (or no real belief in their own sinfulness).

so the theory then always goes to 'antinomianism'...'those who believe are SINNERS'.

Righteousness Through Faith in Christ
1 Finally, my brothers,a rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you is no trouble to me and is safe for you.

2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of Godb and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,c blameless. 7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

Straining Toward the Goal
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant . 27 And he said unto him , Thy brother is come ; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound . 28 And he was angry , and would not go in : therefore came his father out , and intreated him. 29 And he answering said to his father, Lo , these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: 30 But as soon as this thy son was come , which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. 31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.32 It was meet that we should make merry , and be glad : for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again ; and was lost , and is found .

quote]


Let us look at the TRUE meaning of the prodigal son

He DESERTED/ABANDONED his Father and went to spend his money on wild living, prostitutes and parties.

When he came to his senses and repented/regretted what he had done he RETURNED TO HIS FATHER who was filled with compassion for him and threw his arms around him.

When the older brother complained to his Father what did his Father reply?

This brother of yours WAS DEAD and is alive again HE WAS LOST and is found

But according to you the man in the ten year example could not have been dead or lost because he was in a saved state

You are either saved or unsaved, a Christian or not a Christian.

You cannot be dead from your Fathers point of view if you are alive in Christ.

And if you are in a saved state you are alive in Christ.

Did the son come back to his Father intend on sleeping with prostitutes or having wild parties? No

You make a mockery of the cross and the sacrifice of Christ with what you suggest, for you CANNOT admit you are wrong. I repeat, I know of no Christian who would believe such a man as desribed over a ten year period could be in a saved state during that time and I have been to churches twice as long as you have been saved.

Maybe you want to be seen as someone who hasd revelation from scripture that others do not have so you can preach/teach truth to
those who do not understand.

Paul is clear in the verses from Corinthians I quoted to you concerning drunkards and adulterers, you refuse to accept what Paul wrote
EG has pointed out to you what James and Jude wrote and you refuse to accept that also, so no wonder you will not listen to us
You really have no idea what this parable is talking about. The plain scriptures that you are trying to interpret as to the true meaning is not working for you. You strive but you do not understand. You do not see the disposition of the heart of the elder brother toward his younger brother. You miss and can not see the words 'is alive again'. There is so much in this parable that you have no capacity to understand and what you do not understand you mock because you lack in seeing and understanding.

Mt 13:10-13 10 And the disciples came , and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given . 12 For whosoever hath , to him shall be given , and he shall have more abundance : but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
You really have no idea what this parable is talking about. The plain scriptures that you are trying to interpret as to the true meaning is not working for you. You strive but you do not understand. You do not see the disposition of the heart of the elder brother toward his younger brother. You miss and can not see the words 'is alive again'. There is so much in this parable that you have no capacity to understand and what you do not understand you mock because you lack in seeing and understanding.

Mt 13:10-13 10 And the disciples came , and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given . 12 For whosoever hath , to him shall be given , and he shall have more abundance : but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
I have given you the plain words of the parable, not what you wish to ascribe to it in relation to the example of the person in the ten years of sin mentioned

Actually you cannot give the prodigal son as an example of that instance anyway as the person described to you CANNOT have been saved in the first place as has been pointed out to you.

The prodigal son HAD been with his Father

Sorry but I do not believe in your heart you understand the scriptures. You have a 'head theolgy' which is reemed off but one that contradicts Paul, James and Jude on the issue discussed

Of course you desperately wish to sidetrack away from it, you have no choice, for BIBLICALLY you cannot stand on your belief of the person described and your belief he may well be in a saved state

But then as you believe that satan and his confederates had the power to keep God Himself in the grave for three days why am I suprised at any of your berliefs
 
Last edited:
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
I have given you the plain words of the parable, not what you wish to ascribe to it in relation to the example of the person in the ten years of sin mentioned

Actually you cannot give the prodigal son as an example of that instance anyway as the person described to you CANNOT have been saved in the first place as has been pointed out to you.

The prodigal son HAD been with his Father

Sorry but I do not believe in your heart you understand the scriptures. You have a 'head theolgy' which is reemed off but one that contradicts Paul, James and Jude on the issue discussed

Of course you desperately wish to sidetrack away from it, you have no choice, for BIBLICALLY you cannot stand on your belief of the person described and your belief he may well be in a saved state

But then as you believe that satan and his confederates had the power to keep God Himself in the grave for three days why am I suprised at any of your berliefs
I have met some 'jerky' Chirstians but you are on the top, that's for sure. I say that to your edification because I am being kind to you.
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
I have met some 'jerky' Chirstians but you are on the top, that's for sure. I say that to your edification because I am being kind to you.

Well as you obviously believe a person after a claimed conversion can act however they wish and still be in a state I do wonder who has strange beliefs in Christianity. I won't use the word 'jerky' but it is strange indeed

You have many non Bibnlical beliefs Red, and when challenged on them simply ignore the questions or try to deflect them with answers not pertaining to the subject.

In the end you always just lash out for you have nowhere else to go scripturally
 
Last edited:
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
Well as you obviously believe a person after a claimed conversion can act however they wish and still be in a state I do wonder who has strange beliefs in Christianity. I won't use the word 'jerky' but it is strange indeed

You have many non Bibnlical beliefs Red, and when challenged on them simply ignore the questions or try to deflect them with answers not pertaining to the subject.

In the end you always just lash out for you have nowhere else to go scripturally
There are many in the church that profess Christ that need to be ignored at times and you are one of them at this time. You can ramble on all you want, you seem to do that best and feel very comfortable doing it.

Jesus Christ as the Son of God was God in the flesh and dwelt among men and if any man believe otherwise, that is the spirit of antichrist. I don't care how much grace you say you know or how much you hear the voice of God, if any man does not believe that God was manifest in the flesh through the person of Christ, they are in unbelief and have not the Holy Spirit of truth active in their life and there is a good possiblity that they are none of His.
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
There are many in the church that profess Christ that need to be ignored at times and you are one of them at this time. You can ramble on all you want, you seem to do that best and feel very comfortable doing it.

Jesus Christ as the Son of God was God in the flesh and dwelt among men and if any man believe otherwise, that is the spirit of antichrist. I don't care how much grace you say you know or how much you hear the voice of God, if any man does not believe that God was manifest in the flesh through the person of Christ, they are in unbelief and have not the Holy Spirit of truth active in their life and there is a good possiblity that they are none of His.
Well as I have told you many times that I do believe God was manifest in the flesh of Christ if you have an HONEST heart you will embrace that truth.
I will say no more in a post you basically wish to cause division over. Just to say you keep mentioning this because Biblically you could not stand on what you demanded a person to believe to have eternmal life, you are frustrated and hurt by that in your pride, so your above comments keep coming. Please try to be truthful, it is to your benefit to be so

You sure do seem to like to criticise and condemn don't you.

But as someone said
If people do not play to your tune you are rude to them and lash out. How is this being led of the Holy Spirit?
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
justified men also have the Holy Spirit in them.

what differentiates men from jesus?
But they do not have the holy Spirit on them in BODILY FORM, nor were they conceived by a virgin on whom the Spirit came
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
But they do not have the holy Spirit on them in BODILY FORM, nor were they conceived by a virgin on whom the Spirit came
The virgin birth only Gave Christ his human form in which his own spirit would dwell in. The Holy SPirit annointed, or came into him at his baptism.

At our spiritual baptism, the Holy Spirit does the same for us. We have the annointing of God, where the Holy SPirit comes in and dwells with us.
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
The virgin birth only Gave Christ his human form in which his own spirit would dwell in. The Holy SPirit annointed, or came into him at his baptism.

At our spiritual baptism, the Holy Spirit does the same for us. We have the annointing of God, where the Holy SPirit comes in and dwells with us.
I'm trying to keep it simple or Zone will tie me up in knots-maybe:(

But I must repent of such a thought. Zone wouldn't try and do that to me, were buddies!!!