Is debating equally acceptable amongst genders?

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S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#21
Here is my take----
I believe that the Scripture teaches that a woman is not to fill the office of Pastor/Bishop in a church.
BUT---
Many women have great understanding of the Word and the ability to teach and that should never be not used.
My wife has had the opportunity to teach women's groups over the years and I and many other men have SIT IN and been blessed.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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#22
What I can't understand is: why would a woman want equality? The women in my life have an elevated status. Would a woman want to open my doors for me? When instructing those under the leadership of my women, say a mother or a missionary, the woman's word is law. You can transgress and argue with me and be forgiven, you start walking of the female leaders--look out. Correction will be swift and sure.

I have no doubt that the Christian females operating within their God given roles, will be rewarded greater, in the kingdom, than the men. Most women could give lessons on submission and humility. When my wife was driving around the children or the women from the mission, I made sure they obeyed her without argument, her word was law! It would be the wrong time to express their objections. I allowed them to bring up their concerns with me present, but I always backed my wife's word up. We never argued or discussed punishment in front of underlings. We always provided a united front. My wife had greater respect than I did, I saw to it. :cool:
I agree 100%. This is not an equality issue or at least it wasn't meant to be. I just wondered if debates amongst genders, especially heated ones, cross into or preaching or teaching lines.

Deade your relationship with your with your wife shows the kind of marriage He wants from us. I definitely agree women have leadership roles.

I agree that women of valor is a beautiful God centered way I long to be. I do wonder why you think this, though.

have no doubt that the Christian females operating within their God given roles, will be rewarded greater, in the kingdom, than the men
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#23
Here is my take----
I believe that the Scripture teaches that a woman is not to fill the office of Pastor/Bishop in a church.
BUT---
Many women have great understanding of the Word and the ability to teach and that should never be not used.
My wife has had the opportunity to teach women's groups over the years and I and many other men have SIT IN and been blessed.
I am so glad that I asked this here, as it was refreshing to read how many married men and men in general here have a healthy regard and respect for their sweet wifes and for women in general. From the sounds of it, the one belittling our role and place with God here was me. Ok, well thanks for your input, all of you.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#24
What I can't understand is: why would a woman want equality? The women in my life have an elevated status. Would a woman want to open my doors for me? When instructing those under the leadership of my women, say a mother or a missionary, the woman's word is law. You can transgress and argue with me and be forgiven, you start walking of the female leaders--look out. Correction will be swift and sure.

I have no doubt that the Christian females operating within their God given roles, will be rewarded greater, in the kingdom, than the men. Most women could give lessons on submission and humility. When my wife was driving around the children or the women from the mission, I made sure they obeyed her without argument, her word was law! It would be the wrong time to express their objections. I allowed them to bring up their concerns with me present, but I always backed my wife's word up. We never argued or discussed punishment in front of underlings. We always provided a united front. My wife had greater respect than I did, I saw to it. :cool:
Hope you can dissect my reply ^ up there ^, as I see it was VERY POORLY written.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#25
I agree 100%. This is not an equality issue or at least it wasn't meant to be. I just wondered if debates amongst genders, especially heated ones, cross into or preaching or teaching lines.

Deade your relationship with your with your wife shows the kind of marriage He wants from us. I definitely agree women have leadership roles.

I agree that women of valor is a beautiful God centered way I long to be. I do wonder why you think this, though.

have no doubt that the Christian females operating within their God given roles, will be rewarded greater, in the kingdom, than the men
Humility is a must. Even when men are good at being humble, there are other factors that come into play. The main one is edification. Men's roles, as spiritual leaders, get a lot of feedback edification. Women's roles are like the gears that keep things moving and prayer warriors, but get little visible edifying. With lots of edification it is easier to operate in faith. Men get that visible support when women don't. That's why.

John 20:29 "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." :)
 

Solemateleft

Honor, Courage, Commitment
Jun 25, 2017
13,840
4,015
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#26
Balance is such a wise concept, lol.
You got there before I got back from running my errands...
I was just going to reinforce the necessity of 'balance' between genders - be it in the BDF, the CC in general, in life, work or in a relationship...
Our lord's magnificence is such that IMHO he created our genders so uniquely that striking the right balance is all part of his master plan for our ability to learn from each other in order to better ourselves - to include and not limited to spiritual growth...
I see no difference in the role of women here in the BDF or CC than elsewhere in society where a woman's perspective is valued - be it in: congress; surgery; court; business; siblings; counselors; colleagues; church etc...
My kids have been exposed to the judo community for most of their lives; where the essence of judo is all about 'Balance;' where the judo montra is 'Maximum Efficiency and Minimum Effort.'
As it pertains to our lord's magnificence IMHO his design is for males and females to strike such 'balance' in all aspects of our life's journeys on HIS earth... We are intended to challenge each other and ultimately make each other better...
Without his master design for such balanced synergy amongst our genders we would merely gravitate back to our boys and girls circles at the Junior High School dance because those circles are so darn comfortable, convenient and easy... But we would never grow, nor flourish there as a species...
Heck, balanced synergy between our sexes is essential to re-populate his earth... ;)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#27
Get on with it woman. Just say it, lol.
Get on with it woman.:)

On an open forum, gender means nothing (unless someone makes it an issue). Indeed what would be best is that the genders of posters not even be revealed, so that gender becomes a non-issue.

If people wish to debate (which itself is debatable when it comes to Bible understanding), and have Scripture to back up their beliefs, they are free to do so without descending into ad hominem attacks.

As far as I am concerned 200 posts on any subject should suffice, and people should move on. At the end of that, a moderator can chime in and say that POSITION A was found to be more valid than POSITION B. We have some threads with thousands of posts going nowhere.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#28
You got there before I got back from running my errands...
I was just going to reinforce the necessity of 'balance' between genders - be it in the BDF, the CC in general, in life, work or in a relationship...
Our lord's magnificence is such that IMHO he created our genders so uniquely that striking the right balance is all part of his master plan for our ability to learn from each other in order to better ourselves - to include and not limited to spiritual growth...
I see no difference in the role of women here in the BDF or CC than elsewhere in society where a woman's perspective is valued - be it in: congress; surgery; court; business; siblings; counselors; colleagues; church etc...
My kids have been exposed to the judo community for most of their lives; where the essence of judo is all about 'Balance;' where the judo montra is 'Maximum Efficiency and Minimum Effort.'
As it pertains to our lord's magnificence IMHO his design is for males and females to strike such 'balance' in all aspects of our life's journeys on HIS earth... We are intended to challenge each other and ultimately make each other better...
Without his master design for such balanced synergy amongst our genders we would merely gravitate back to our boys and girls circles at the Junior High School dance because those circles are so darn comfortable, convenient and easy... But we would never grow, nor flourish there as a species...
Heck, balanced synergy between our sexes is essential to re-populate his earth... ;)
Yes Balance!!! . But we would never grow, nor flourish there as a species, if we didn't value one another and the strengths we bring.

I use to be such a tom boy, growing up. I use to struggle with the role of a woman. Now, I am honored and see the value of servitude and humility. We get those things from Him.


Judo seems like a tangible and wise approach to help them find self discipline and balance. :)
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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#29
Get on with it woman.:)

On an open forum, gender means nothing (unless someone makes it an issue). Indeed what would be best is that the genders of posters not even be revealed, so that gender becomes a non-issue.

If people wish to debate (which itself is debatable when it comes to Bible understanding), and have Scripture to back up their beliefs, they are free to do so without descending into ad hominem attacks.

As far as I am concerned 200 posts on any subject should suffice, and people should move on. At the end of that, a moderator can chime in and say that POSITION A was found to be more valid than POSITION B. We have some threads with thousands of posts going nowhere.
You know, I hadn't thought about that. It is an open forum and there is nothing suggesting which gender we are unless we choose to make it clear.
Hmmmm, so perhaps leading with our genders isn't important, not even relevant here, that our goal should be to lead with Him.

I love your idea of closure. However. I think anyone saying or suggesting one position was substantiated more than another, would only be welcomed by the ones who won the argument. But the opposing sides would not agree and then on and on. If that were possible, wouldn't that be nice? I just think that would start the debates all over. I mean how often do we change our positions? I have wanted to ask that, Nehemiah. I would love to know how many here have changed their minds on stuff.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#31
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

1Co 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
1Co 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

When a person receives the Holy Spirit the kingdom of God is within them, and they are in the Lord.

Women do not have to take a back seat to men here, and keep silence, and worry about being out of line concerning debating with men, no matter how much debating goes on, for in the Lord a man and a woman are equal.

The only thing that separates a man and a woman is the flesh, the spirit and soul are the same, and when they belong to the kingdom of God the flesh does not matter for it is spiritual, and they will put off the flesh and be like the angels in heaven, which the angels have no gender, and contrary to what some people believe there is no female angels, for there is no gender among them, but they are known by masculine names for they are greater than people until they receive their glorified body, then the saints are greater than the angels, and the saints do not have any gender in heaven, which is why Jesus said they do not marry in heaven.

And who says a man will know more than a woman concerning the word of God, for He does not give the preacher more wisdom than a common pew sitter, for He gives to all who ask Him the same amount of knowledge, and wisdom in His word, and we need not that any man teach us but the Spirit will teach us when we come across the word of God, whether by someone, or reading the word of God.

When the saints come together to worship God, and hear the word of God, all the saints are on an equal level, with the exception of the preacher for they are the one in charge, and direct the service.

The preacher has the floor and in charge, and when he is done saying what he will say, and directing the service, then he will turn it over to the saints, and they can further the service by all pitching in to edify one another, for the service is better, and they learn more, and are edified more, if all the saints pitch in then being directed by one person.

The preacher is in charge, and all the rest of the saints are on an equal level for they are in the Lord, and in the Lord there is no male or female, but they are one, and on an equal level.

The Bible says in a certain place that women should keep silent in Church, but they must of had a problem in that Church of the women disrupting the service when the preacher had the floor, and in charge, but when the preacher is in charge then the men also have to be quiet.

How can women be silent in Church, for will they not sing, and praise the Lord, and give testimonies, so they must of had a problem with the women disrupting the preacher, or Paul is only stating do not interrupt the preacher.

For when the preacher gives the service over to the saints then both men and women can pitch in and edify each other.

I believe a man should take the lead when the saints come together to worship God, and hear the word of God, as per the authority structure of God concerning the Church, but everybody else is on an equal level in the congregation, and the men not above the women for they are equal in the Lord.

Here on this forum, and in the street, and in their home, and at work, they can debate with the men as if it is a man debating with a man, and even in the Church as long as they do not interrupt the preacher when he is speaking and has the floor.

Gender, smender, for that should not matter here, or anywhere else, even the Church, and women can even debate with the preacher if he wants to hear it like in his office, or a home.

How do men get more wisdom than women, that the women should always listen to men for the women cannot compare to their wisdom, when God gives everybody the same amount of knowledge, and wisdom, regardless of gender, so women might know more about certain subjects than the men, and shall they be quiet and we miss out.

To say that women should not debate with men if it gets in to a dragged out, heated debate, is like saying the men always have the greatest knowledge, and the women fail in comparison to their awesome wisdom of the word of God, so the women should shut up for what can you learn from them if they cannot attain to the great knowledge of the men.

But we know that is not true for God gives the same knowledge, and wisdom, to all people regardless of gender, and the men do not have authority above the women here, or anywhere, and only the preacher does when the congregation comes together, and only that one man, but a woman is still equal to him, but the preacher is in charge.

I do not see how it is stepping on any men's toes if the women debate with men, no matter how heated the debate gets.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#32
what's next then? segregation in church?

maybe walking a few steps behind a male?

head completely covered? not even ankles exposed?

oh wait

we already have that in places

I don't understand the question frankly and I have enough recipes now

sorry, but this woman is made of tougher stuff and was brought up to think independently

enough men in this forum have expressed their desire for woman to put a sock in it, and claiming God says the same, that any such division should be frowned upon so that even botox could not hide the wrinkles

a little humor, but I am taken aback at the op
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#33
I also think it an unfair advantage towards females, because a man of God has and should handle verbal discourse differently. I think respect, though, should be given to everyone, but let's be honest, many men will speak less freely when talking to a sister.

I just got told I was acting like ... donkey spelled with an a and 2 s's

I take that as I 'hit a nerve'

the real truth is that too many men do not like women with brains who actually know scripture

Angela gets insulted all the time

be forward and unspoken...stop the lol's (no offense) and see what happens then...and also do not advertise you are on staff

just being realistic. maybe use an alligator or something for your avatar and stop being a polite nice looking woman wanting peace with everyone

well now I've done it. sorry. not sorry. and this is not personal...just what I think is truthful. :(:giggle:

men can be very resentful of women. and they do not know what to make of a good looking women with intelligence, education and talent and especially God given gifts

the bottom line for many men is 'put women in their place'

ok...getting off the soapbox now
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#34
ok...getting off the soapbox now
Get off the female soapbox. The simple solution is to not have any indication of gender for any poster anywhere.

Thus gender is out of the picture and then you can show your brains (or your brawn).
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#35
Here's an old, pulverizing the horse, over and over, kind of topic. So bear with me, please, much long-suffering may be required, lol.


I want to address the BDF because it is in this particular portion of forums that this concern surfaces.…


I can almost hear you readers saying…


Get on with it woman. Just say it, lol.


Um, I want to, lol, but I need preface this first in an attempt to weed out what I'm not doing…


I am not asking how you interpret the word with regards women in pastoral leadership. Meaning no offense, to my sisters who are much more educated than I. I totally accept that you can and are being used by God. So no shade to men or to women.


This forum is designed to give our take on the matter. If we don't share our opinions and interpretations, the threads potential for movement ceases to be. Additionally, the BDF is definitely more of a debate platform. I thoroughly enjoy bantering back and forth, examining a matter; it is often educational and edifying, sometimes even entertaining, and sometimes just frustrating, lol. When discussing things, though, opposing views in particular with men, do females need to stay in their lane? .

Eeks, :O ..men nodding and women picking up weapons....

Ducks to avoid sisters who finds that statement archaic, minimizing and just downright offensive and insulting. Please, know that I mean no harm.

Sisters, surely, you have pondered this too, because it is clear that He has given us minds, but He has also given us roles. Yes, He can use us, too, for sure, and in Him we are one. However, our role is different and, yes, limiting in the teaching and preaching of men.

I will stop going on, trying to ease my harsh blow. I just hope you know that I am a woman ready and open to be taught by both my Brothers and Sisters.

Ok, back to where am I going with this?

Ughidy ugh ugh, how do I ask this..

Do you think women, in an open debate forum, discussing biblical doctrine, crosses the line when getting into a heated discussion with the opposite gender? I don't think offering up our own interpretations are considered teaching or preaching, but if we are correcting respectfully of course, Brother's ideas, are we crossing the line?

I also think it an unfair advantage towards females, because a man of God has and should handle verbal discourse differently. I think respect, though, should be given to everyone, but let's be honest, many men will speak less freely when talking to a sister.

With that said, I love partaking here, so if you could just tell me what I want to hear that would be great, hahaha...jk.

Just picking your brains…

DYou have said that pivotal word and premis……….We indeed do have our "roles" in this age, however it is imperative that all who claim to believe to keep in mind, heart and soul that when it comes to our Father's vision, there is neither male nor female.

How can we all b made in the likeness of Jesus Christ, Yeshua, come the Kingdom. As it is written we will b exactly as He, though we willnot be he. To be just as He is too wonderful to entertaine in our mere minds.

So, any who are p wise, any who understand will bear this in mind.

A godo rule for allwhen hear others, male or female, is simple,; Is the Holy Spirit bearing witness to what is being conveyed...if yes, no dispute, hear him, hear her. All blessings in Jesus Christ, Yeshua...
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#36
Here is my take----
I believe that the Scripture teaches that a woman is not to fill the office of Pastor/Bishop in a church.
BUT---
Many women have great understanding of the Word and the ability to teach and that should never be not used.
My wife has had the opportunity to teach women's groups over the years and I and many other men have SIT IN and been blessed.
Amen! God's Spirit is the instigator, propagator, and originator of all that is and of HIM. For it is of a certainty that in HIM we live, move and have our being. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure whether we are male or female. For if we are in Christ there is neither male nor female; we are all one in Christ.
To many's dismay this does not take man's approval by an ordination.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#37
This is an open site and freedoms to speak your mind, feminine or masculine, are granted to all. I would rather explore scripture with a sound minded woman than a opinionated man. Women aren’t supposed to authority over men. Nobody has authority in these forums. The weak, the strong, the learned the ignorant, and both genders, all come here to enlighten and frustrate.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,128
3,689
113
#38
Here's an old, pulverizing the horse, over and over, kind of topic. So bear with me, please, much long-suffering may be required, lol.


I want to address the BDF because it is in this particular portion of forums that this concern surfaces.…


I can almost hear you readers saying…


Get on with it woman. Just say it, lol.


Um, I want to, lol, but I need preface this first in an attempt to weed out what I'm not doing…


I am not asking how you interpret the word with regards women in pastoral leadership. Meaning no offense, to my sisters who are much more educated than I. I totally accept that you can and are being used by God. So no shade to men or to women.


This forum is designed to give our take on the matter. If we don't share our opinions and interpretations, the threads potential for movement ceases to be. Additionally, the BDF is definitely more of a debate platform. I thoroughly enjoy bantering back and forth, examining a matter; it is often educational and edifying, sometimes even entertaining, and sometimes just frustrating, lol. When discussing things, though, opposing views in particular with men, do females need to stay in their lane? .

Eeks, :O ..men nodding and women picking up weapons....

Ducks to avoid sisters who finds that statement archaic, minimizing and just downright offensive and insulting. Please, know that I mean no harm.

Sisters, surely, you have pondered this too, because it is clear that He has given us minds, but He has also given us roles. Yes, He can use us, too, for sure, and in Him we are one. However, our role is different and, yes, limiting in the teaching and preaching of men.

I will stop going on, trying to ease my harsh blow. I just hope you know that I am a woman ready and open to be taught by both my Brothers and Sisters.

Ok, back to where am I going with this?

Ughidy ugh ugh, how do I ask this..

Do you think women, in an open debate forum, discussing biblical doctrine, crosses the line when getting into a heated discussion with the opposite gender? I don't think offering up our own interpretations are considered teaching or preaching, but if we are correcting respectfully of course, Brother's ideas, are we crossing the line?

I also think it an unfair advantage towards females, because a man of God has and should handle verbal discourse differently. I think respect, though, should be given to everyone, but let's be honest, many men will speak less freely when talking to a sister.

With that said, I love partaking here, so if you could just tell me what I want to hear that would be great, hahaha...jk.

Just picking your brains…

Thank you for your thoughts. I'm curious, is your husband involved at all in the discussions you engage on this thread? Do you consult him at all?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,582
3,616
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#39
Meaning no offense, to my sisters who are much more educated than I. I totally accept that you can and are being used by God. So no shade to men or to women.

Eeks, :O ..men nodding and women picking up weapons....

Ducks to avoid sisters who finds that statement archaic, minimizing and just downright offensive and insulting.

I will stop going on, trying to ease my harsh blow.

Ughidy ugh ugh, how do I ask this..

I also think it an unfair advantage towards females, because a man of God has and should handle verbal discourse differently. I think respect, though, should be given to everyone, but let's be honest, many men will speak less freely when talking to a sister.
The above quotes taken out of you post point to the reason many woman cannot deal with debate.. You yourself spent nearly half of your post walking over egg shells knowing all to well the potential for some woman to emotionally over react...

It is laborious and stressful to need to walk on egg shells all the time around woman.. Constantly trying to defend oneself from accusations of being a misogynists and having toxic masculinity for simply stating a belief / position on a topic.. I have experienced it on the few topics here..

It is good when you are in a discussion with a woman who understands and appreciates guys who state what they believe and why they believe it without all the shallow tinsel and cotton wool speak that just clutters a post when all you want is to get to the point efficiently so you can reply back with your observations and counter thoughts..

Yeah i know there are some woman who will read this post and get all offended and upset..

Such is life..
 
Oct 25, 2018
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#40
I am so glad that I asked this here, as it was refreshing to read how many married men and men in general here have a healthy regard and respect for their sweet wifes and for women in general. From the sounds of it, the one belittling our role and place with God here was me. Ok, well thanks for your input, all of you.
I have a healthy regard and respect for my wife after she massages my back, rubs my feet, makes me a sammich, washes, dries, irons and then folds my clothes, runs my bath water, cooks my dinner, and then tucks me in.

It's right after this the alarm goes off...