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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
You don't even have one. I showed you the verse from the OT that Paul was quoting from that proves that Paul had in mind the nation of Edom. Why are you so stubborn?

Please share the many verses that tell us plainly that God hates individuals. I don't believe your claim.
I gave you a scripture and you dont believe it.
No you didn't. The ONE you did give doesn't say what you want it to say.

And you said there are "many more". So, where are they?

Your response here proves you don't have any, or you would have at least shared some, to prove your claim.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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But you haven't been schooled, since you reject plainly what scripture says. God gives some to believe on Jesus Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
You appear to be unlearned or unschooled since you dont believe plain scripture.
Rather, you appear to be unable to comprehend the written word.

To be "given to believe" doesn't mean cause to believe, which is the Calvinist claim, but unproven from Scripture. It means to be given the opportunity to believe.

The reason God doesn't give everyone the opportunity is because He knows they won't believe. And this is the biblical proof:

Acts 16-
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to.

2 Thess 2-
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

These verses show that those who REFUSE to "love the truth" are sent a delusion.

Bottom line: God omnisciently knows from eternity past who will and who won't believe. He is under no obligation to present the gospel to those who "refuse to love the truth".

But since Christ died for everyone, and many unbelievers are simply unaware of the gospel, rather than hating it, are given the opportunity to believe.

We know that the gospel is available to everyone, as Titus 2:11 plains says. And refutes Calvinism.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
There is no promise in the verse. But please show me the words that you "interpret" as a promise.
Yes it is. When God says something shall or will happen its His Promise, and is backed up by His Power and abiltiy.
OK, call it what you want. It is from His omniscience.
 
Oct 10, 2022
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FreeGrace2 said:
You don't even have one. I showed you the verse from the OT that Paul was quoting from that proves that Paul had in mind the nation of Edom. Why are you so stubborn?

Please share the many verses that tell us plainly that God hates individuals. I don't believe your claim.

No you didn't. The ONE you did give doesn't say what you want it to say.

And you said there are "many more". So, where are they?

Your response here proves you don't have any, or you would have at least shared some, to prove your claim.
I have gave you scripture and you dont believe it.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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I have gave you scripture and you dont believe it.
I don't believe your opinion of the verse. A big difference. And you STILL won't prove any of your so-called "many more" verses that supposedly say what you claim.

So you've already been discredited by your own failure to back up what you cclaim.
 
Oct 10, 2022
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Rather, you appear to be unable to comprehend the written word.

To be "given to believe" doesn't mean cause to believe, which is the Calvinist claim, but unproven from Scripture. It means to be given the opportunity to believe.

The reason God doesn't give everyone the opportunity is because He knows they won't believe. And this is the biblical proof:

Acts 16-
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to.

2 Thess 2-
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

These verses show that those who REFUSE to "love the truth" are sent a delusion.

Bottom line: God omnisciently knows from eternity past who will and who won't believe. He is under no obligation to present the gospel to those who "refuse to love the truth".

But since Christ died for everyone, and many unbelievers are simply unaware of the gospel, rather than hating it, are given the opportunity to believe.

We know that the gospel is available to everyone, as Titus 2:11 plains says. And refutes Calvinism.
It appears to me that you cant understand one of the plainest scriptures in the bible, that tells us that God gives belief in Christ. Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
 
Oct 10, 2022
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I don't believe your opinion of the verse. A big difference. And you STILL won't prove any of your so-called "many more" verses that supposedly say what you claim.

So you've already been discredited by your own failure to back up what you cclaim.
You don't believe scripture, not my opinion.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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It appears to me that you cant understand one of the plainest scriptures in the bible, that tells us that God gives belief in Christ. Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
You still don't understand. To be "given to believe" means to give opportunity to believe.

I proved that your view isn't biblical with verses. Since you disagree, then address each verse and explain how and why I am wrong.

Here is what I gave you:

The reason God doesn't give everyone the opportunity is because He knows they won't believe. And this is the biblical proof:

Acts 16-
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to.

2 Thess 2-
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

These verses show that those who REFUSE to "love the truth" are sent a delusion.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
I don't believe your opinion of the verse. A big difference. And you STILL won't prove any of your so-called "many more" verses that supposedly say what you claim.

So you've already been discredited by your own failure to back up what you cclaim.
You don't believe scripture, not my opinion.
Again, I don't believe your opinion. I've made it clear that your "claim" is just an opinion.

I proved from Scripture that God doesn't choose who will believe, which is the basis of your belief in understanding Phil 1:29, but you can't provide ANY of the "many more verses" that you claim teach the same thing.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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No, that they should hear and believe. Should is the simple past of the word shall. They shall hear and shall believe. Its just like when Jesus said in Jn 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Acts 28:28

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

If God says something shall, should, will occur, then it will occur because He says it, and does it, or causes it to happen by His Power.
well unless you believe ALL the gentiles heard and believed. well then you can not interpret this passage as you are trying to do.

because using your interpretation. the salvation of God is sent to the GENTILES, that THEY should hear and believe.

It does not say some of them, or say these will believe but those will not.
 
Oct 10, 2022
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You still don't understand. To be "given to believe" means to give opportunity to believe.

I proved that your view isn't biblical with verses. Since you disagree, then address each verse and explain how and why I am wrong.

Here is what I gave you:

The reason God doesn't give everyone the opportunity is because He knows they won't believe. And this is the biblical proof:

Acts 16-
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to.

2 Thess 2-
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

These verses show that those who REFUSE to "love the truth" are sent a delusion.
To be given to believe means you shall believe, thats what was given.
 
Oct 10, 2022
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FreeGrace2 said:
I don't believe your opinion of the verse. A big difference. And you STILL won't prove any of your so-called "many more" verses that supposedly say what you claim.

So you've already been discredited by your own failure to back up what you cclaim.

Again, I don't believe your opinion. I've made it clear that your "claim" is just an opinion.

I proved from Scripture that God doesn't choose who will believe, which is the basis of your belief in understanding Phil 1:29, but you can't provide ANY of the "many more verses" that you claim teach the same thing.
Phil 1:29 isnt my opinion, its Gods inspired truth and you dont believe it.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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To be given to believe means you shall believe, thats what was given.
Gods will does not always come to pass

Matthew 23:37
Jesus Laments over Jerusalem
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

He gave them free will to reject his will.. like he gives everyone
 
Oct 10, 2022
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well unless you believe ALL the gentiles heard and believed. well then you can not interpret this passage as you are trying to do.

because using your interpretation. the salvation of God is sent to the GENTILES, that THEY should hear and believe.

It does not say some of them, or say these will believe but those will not.
All the Gentiles that had been previously ordained to eternal life shall hear and believe Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believe

Jn 10 :16 is speaking about Gentile Sheep, not all gentiles without exception. Same with the jews, only the jewish Sheep that belong to Christ shall believe.
 
Oct 10, 2022
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Gods will does not always come to pass

Matthew 23:37
Jesus Laments over Jerusalem
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

He gave them free will to reject his will.. like he gives everyone
Matt 23:37 has nothing to do with Phil 1:29. However their were some jews that it was given to them to believe
 

HanzSolo

New member
Oct 15, 2022
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Faith is a gift of God and HIS work as He draws us near Him. Faith creates a will to do good to one another like Jesus did.

It says in finnish bible something like faith without good works is dead (neverheless you are saved if you have been reborn).
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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All the Gentiles that had been previously ordained to eternal life shall hear and believe Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believe

Jn 10 :16 is speaking about Gentile Sheep, not all gentiles without exception. Same with the jews, only the jewish Sheep that belong to Christ shall believe.
sorry my friend. You can not just add words so the word of God suits your interpretation. The passage you used does nto say elect. It says GENTILES.

You do not add to the word of God. if your belief lines up with the word you would never have to add anything.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Matt 23:37 has nothing to do with Phil 1:29. However their were some jews that it was given to them to believe
it has everything to do with the will of God and free will

Phil 2 is written to the saints. Not unbelievers.. So he is talking to them

Matt is talking about Israel. and gods will for them.. and how they freely of their free will went against the will of God.