Is faith a work?

[reneweddaybyday]

However, Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.

Paul also tells us in Romans 4 that faith is not works:

Romans 4:

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


vs 4 – if faith is a work, then the reward is merely remuneration (money paid for work or a service).

vs 5 – to him who does not work, but believes on Him Who justifies ... faith is counted for righteousness.
.

 

[HeIsHere]

I've been reading through these answers. One thing I am certain of is that Jesus meant exactly what He said, despite some people trying to say He meant the opposite of what He said or that He was speaking ironically. I think when we start trying to assign irony to narratives in the Bible based on subjective metrics like "we feel like it's irony" then we have stepped onto a slippery slope then we can start making the Bible say anything we want it to. That'll just lead to division and countless arguments. I prefer the literalists approach as much as possible unless there is a good reason to see symbolism. Jesus doesn't seem to be using any symbols in John 6:28,29.

From what I see in John 6:28,29 is that they asked what they can do to perform the works of God and Jesus said the work of God is that they believe in the One He sent. That doesn't mean God is working to believe in Jesus, but rather the work that God has assigned for sinners is to believe in Jesus. That's how I know for sure that it isn't "God's work" that He's laboring to complete. Nor is God trying to give the gift of faith to Himself. So the work of God is exactly what it says or it would have been referred to as the gift of faith instead.

Are you asking about saving faith or the faith that follows as a born again believer because I think they are discussed differently in scripture.

 

[Edify]

Something to ponder:
Is everyone saying faith without any works(of faith or without faith) justifies us as saved?
The reason I'm asking is because it seems everyone(to me) is saying this.
Let me clarify: everyone can agree that faith without works saves us all the while half will say faith without works is dead while the other half says faith only without any faithfulness will save.
Sometimes we seem to agree while thinking on two different ends of the spectrum.
So what say ye?

 

[Runningman]

TRUTH in Irony..............Find the Irony in this Passage of Truth ......there are 3

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
“I do not receive honor from men. But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

This is an ironic circumstance, not the usage of irony as a teaching method.

 

[Runningman]

Are you asking about saving faith or the faith that follows as a born again believer because I think they are discussed differently in scripture.

Yea, but I was talking about saving faith.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Let me clarify: everyone can agree that faith without works saves us all the while half will say faith without works is dead

God tells us For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:10).

Once we are in Christ Jesus (born again), there are good works ... we should walk in.


God also tells us For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure (Philippians 2:13).

We are to submit to the working of God within us.


James 2, where we read faith, if it hath not works works is dead, relates to those who say they have faith, yet their actions don't align with Scripture. James then points out certain behaviors ... those who show partiality among the believers (James 2:1-13) ... or those who see a fellow believer with a need and yet withhold that which the brother or sister needs when they have the ability to provide for the need (James 2:14-26).

James corrects certain behaviors which crept into the church at the time. Sadly, we are still in need of this correction in our day and time.
.

 

[DavidTree]

This is an ironic circumstance, not the usage of irony as a teaching method.

And guess Who orchestrated the "ironic circumstance" to give us the TRUTH thru irony..............

It's not the method but the Message that matters.
JESUS is LORD over all possible thought, precognition and methodolgy.
All is at His disposal to which HE desires to communicate thru.

 

[Edify]

James 2, where we read faith, if it hath not works works is dead, relates to those who say they have faith, yet their actions don't align with Scripture.

I agree.
I have faith. But I can decide not to use it. When I do, & continue to do so, it is called unbelief. There are NT scriptures that warn the church that walking in unbelief will get us cut off.
Now, there be some that say it's not unbelief, but disobedience, so that they can claim continual salvation. Yet this unbelief is disobedience, & this disobedience is unbelief.
There is a sin of commission of wickedness, & a sin of omission, where we don't do what Jesus says. Both is wickedness. Both is unfaithfulness. Both is rebellion. Both will get us cut off if we continue in them.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yea, but I was talking about saving faith.

That is what I thought.

I think Jesus makes it clear that something is required of us by God to receive the gift of salvation.

Given the question and the audience to whom he was speaking, they were thinking about activities, Jesus brings it down to one work.

It seems pretty simple to me, the "work" is the act of faith in Jesus which saves.

The "work" that Jesus is talking about is the "work" that causes the cessation of "works."

 

[Runningman]

And guess Who orchestrated the "ironic circumstance" to give us the TRUTH thru irony..............

It's not the method but the Message that matters.
JESUS is LORD over all possible thought, precognition and methodolgy.
All is at His disposal to which HE desires to communicate thru.

Respectfully, that’s a stretch. I know God can alter circumstances to produce His desired outcome, but there’s no evidence I’m aware of that says He does that all the time.

My perspective about God is that most of the time He does not intervene even if He could have stopped a catastrophe.

 

[Runningman]

I agree.
I have faith. But I can decide not to use it. When I do, & continue to do so, it is called unbelief. There are NT scriptures that warn the church that walking in unbelief will get us cut off.
Now, there be some that say it's not unbelief, but disobedience, so that they can claim continual salvation. Yet this unbelief is disobedience, & this disobedience is unbelief.
There is a sin of commission of wickedness, & a sin of omission, where we don't do what Jesus says. Both is wickedness. Both is unfaithfulness. Both is rebellion. Both will get us cut off if we continue in them.

We have similar perspectives. Do you believe that any sin, no matter how small, is the same as abandoning the faith? Why or why not.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.

Faith is a noun.

Believe is a verb.

Obey is a verb.


Faith comes to us by hearing Him speak to us; by hearing His word.


So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17



When we receive faith from God, it comes to us, both dormant and incomplete and must be activated, or “made alive” by us believing; believing and therefore obeying what we hear God speak to us to do.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Hebrews 11:8


This event is described in two other places in the Bible and each place we can learn a dynamic principle of faith.


Can we discuss?





JLB

 

[DavidTree]

Respectfully, that’s a stretch. I know God can alter circumstances to produce His desired outcome, but there’s no evidence I’m aware of that says He does that all the time.

My perspective about God is that most of the time He does not intervene even if He could have stopped a catastrophe.

You did not understand what i said.

 

[Isaskar]

Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, our Lord and Savior,

Please read this OP before answering.

Serious question looking for some answers. Thought maybe I could find some here. I want to post two scriptures and see what people conclude. I’ll post the KJV.

My question is this: is faith in Christ a work?

John 6:28,29 KJV
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If I understand correctly, Jesus is saying that the work God wants us to do to have salvation of our soul is to believe on His Son Jesus Christ.

However, Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.

Much is made of the works thing in the modern church. The works Paul is talking about are not obeying Jesus' commandments or the doctrine of the Apostles. What Paul is referring to is the works of the law of Moses, which many pharisees at the time taught were mandatory for salvation, biggest controversy regarding circumcision, Acts 15 for reference.

 

[tourist]

Not at all. The Jews were the ones asking the wrong question. Instead of asking "What must we do to be saved?" they wanted to know how they might "work the works of God" (do miracles). So they received an ironic reply. And to speak about Christ as a slick politician is simply blasphemous.

Sarcasm in response to a post of yours.

 

[Edify]

Much is made of the works thing in the modern church. The works Paul is talking about are not obeying Jesus' commandments or the doctrine of the Apostles. What Paul is referring to is the works of the law of Moses, which many pharisees at the time taught were mandatory for salvation, biggest controversy regarding circumcision, Acts 15 for reference.

Agreed. The Judiazers of Jesus' day were the worst false teachers of the time.

 

[Edify]

We have similar perspectives. Do you believe that any sin, no matter how small, is the same as abandoning the faith? Why or why not.

No. If we sin, we have been given a space of time to repent. Plus, Paul always says something like "and continueth therein". Those that continue in sin unrepented of will depart from the faith.
Those striving for the mark of the prize will keep the faith.
If it were left up to every single sin we would all perish.

 

[BillG]

For me I don't think faith is a work.

God gives us a measure of faith.

Romans 12:3-4

Serve God with Spiritual Gifts
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,

Saving faith is a gift.
This faith will be evidenced in our works.
Not to be be saved but because we are saved and want to be like Jesus.

 

[G00WZ]

Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, our Lord and Savior,

Please read this OP before answering.

Serious question looking for some answers. Thought maybe I could find some here. I want to post two scriptures and see what people conclude. I’ll post the KJV.

My question is this: is faith in Christ a work?

John 6:28,29 KJV
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If I understand correctly, Jesus is saying that the work God wants us to do to have salvation of our soul is to believe on His Son Jesus Christ.

However, Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.

Faith by itself is just awareness of truth but it's powerless and goes unseen without belief though. It's like if i throw a ball at your head and you see it comming at you that is YOUR faith, "YOUR awareness". You were aware/ had faith in the ball comming at you, so believing in what you were first aware of moved out of the way. Faith dictates and justifies your belief, and your belief gives evidence of your faith. Now imagine if i threw that same ball again but this time you have your back turned having no awareness of a thrown ball. No awareness = no belief and you will just end up getting hit because you have no response to what you're not aware of. The thrown ball itself is still awareness/truth comming at you, but because it's not YOURS you can't be alive or react to it.

Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."....But what they didn't include is that YOUR belief/response to that faith which is also of the same substance can be seen. The two are connected. This is how the woman with the issue of blood received her healing, she in awareness knew what the power in Jesus would do to her if she touched Him. Touching Jesus was her belief physical response to already being aware of the spirit power He had in Him. Notice these two things, first being that Jesus affirms that someone touched Him in a crowd where everyone is physically touching Him, and second how Jesus tells her that it was her faith that made her whole. Life and faith go together, being the life of what you have faith/awareness in causes a reaction. She touched/lived to Jesus intentionally expecting to recieve a reaction from what she already had an awareness in , and He affirmed and confirmed it. First in the "who touched me?" and the second confirming what she already felt “your faith has healed you".


With the works thing you're trying to get to faith or to a realization/awareness of truth because you're not there yet. It's like because your still looking and working to get to the truth you have no awareness of what God has or did for you to be able to believe/respond after. The work of God is simply being aware of what God has done through Jesus and also YOU being responsive living to it because faith won't believe itself for you.

Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Old testament was all about man trying to work and grind out his own salvation but then God Himself does it Himself for all through Christ. Remember what i said before about faith being awareness of truth. Jesus says in John 8:32 "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free". It's all in the knowing and resting of what God did through Him.

 

[pottersclay]

There is a old saying that goes like this....

If you find a job that you love...you'll never work a day in your life.