Is faith a work?

Live4Him3 · May 29, 2022

A couple of things:

First of all, according to Jesus himself, men can do the works of God. In fact, he said that they/we can do even greater works than some of those which he did himself.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12)

Secondly, the text at hand says nothing about "they did not understand".

Instead, Jesus plainly said that they did not believe:

John chapter 6

[35] And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
[36] But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

DavidTree · May 29, 2022

Member posthuman post#18 add to member JaumeJ post#20 = "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"
"these words I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are Life" = John 6:63

Live4Him3 · May 29, 2022

posthuman said:

Of course, I agree that Jesus is the true bread from heaven, but this does nothing to negate the fact that they weren't the least bit interested in this type of bread.

Again, they were only looking to fill their bellies again with a totally different type of bread.

HeIsHere · May 29, 2022

Runningman said:

Yes, I do think Jesus is making it clear that there is one "work" we have to do and that is to believe.

So He is using their language to make His point bringing their concept of "work" into different perspective so perhaps they could grasp that He is the Messiah.

Yet, there no boasting in believing (Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV ) because there is no metric, it is the same belief that saves a person, none of us can boast, we all did the same "work."

I see no contradiction I see one verse building on the other.

Journeyman · May 29, 2022

Runningman said:

Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, our Lord and Savior,

Please read this OP before answering.

Serious question looking for some answers. Thought maybe I could find some here. I want to post two scriptures and see what people conclude. I’ll post the KJV.

My question is this: is faith in Christ a work?

John 6:28,29 KJV
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If I understand correctly, Jesus is saying that the work God wants us to do to have salvation of our soul is to believe on His Son Jesus Christ.

However, Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.

Hello Runningman.
Faith is a work of his Spirit, because many believed when they heard of the works he was doing by his Spirit.
Please compare this with the scriptures you cited and see if it isn't so.

posthuman · May 29, 2022

Live4Him3 said:

do you suppose the unbeliever can understand the things of the Spirit?
if not, then doesn't unbelief imply lack of understanding?

i will contend, they did not understand, because they did not believe.

here is what justifies my position:

Why do you not understand My speech?
Because you are not able to listen to My word.
(John 8:43)

because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
(John 8:45)

Christ Himself links inability to understand with unbelief. i do the same.

DavidTree · May 29, 2022

HeIsHere said:

Yes, I do think Jesus is making it clear that there is one "work" we have to do and that is to believe.

So He is using their language to make His point bringing their concept of "work" into different perspective so perhaps they could grasp that He is the Messiah.

Yet, there no boasting in believing (Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV ) because there is no metric, it is the same belief that saves a person, none of us can boast, we all did the same "work."

I see no contradiction I see one verse building on the other.

What you said is true and your getting very close but not yet all the way there...........

Pilgrimshope · May 29, 2022

posthuman said:

amen think about how we would think of we believed the things Jesus said I mean truly believed then more than what we see

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

what I mean is what if we believed that ? What would we Do if we really believed what he’s saying ? Eternal life

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

an escape from what all mankind faces and fears what if we instead of trying to figure it out just heard him and believed what he’s saying is right and true and what we used to think was wrong?

would we embrace his teachings and learn if we thought John 5:24 is true ? If we really believed we’re takkkng about eternal life how would we respond ?

instead of understanding it all up front we can believe what he’s saying and let it sink in later and shape our belief into Gods word and promise of saving faith

we don’t want to believe because of the sinful nature

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

if we hear him and believe we begin to understand the word of our God saying we really can’t keep sinning or we will perish rather than have everlasting life but …..we humans don’t want that to be true we enjoy earthly life and indulgence

we need to first let his word become what we believe and the understanding becomes a bi product faith is always to believe first what he said and then act in that belief the understanding comes later

Noah I’m going to destroy everything and everyone with a flood you build an ark and be saved and I’ll renew a covenant with you ….Noah believed he didn’t make any sense of it first but he just believed what god told him was true so he acted in faith

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭

he understood later our Gods wrath and grace but first he believed what was said by God and acted in faith not logic or understanding but it was solely based o. What god said to him he acted based not on the natural world it didn’t look like a massive flood was coming but what God said was more true and important to Noah he had faith so he acted as of Gods word was real d what he saw wasnt

HeIsHere · May 29, 2022

Runningman said:

I would also say this is the one and only new covenant "work" which Jesus was always pointing to and it is interesting He did not say "works."

As well, Jesus did tell His audience "to strive to enter through the narrow gate." So people can believe many different things but we have to search/strive to find - then believe the truth/gospel.

Jesusfollower · May 29, 2022

posthuman said:

doesn't this mean, faith is a work of God? i.e. God works it in us.
((oh yes i know that irks the Arminianist))

and in John 6, Christ seems to be telling them, stop thinking about your own efforts, but believe in Him who was sent to save.
the beginning of wisdom is to fear/respect God: part of that is comprehending our absolute insufficiency compared to Him. it's humility. they came to Him asking, how can we be like You? how can we do amazing things too? and He said, the amazing thing is believing in ME. He is our Shepherd; we are His sheep. the sheep shouldn't desire to supplant the Shepherd, but love Him, and follow Him.

the work of God is to prostrate ourselves before God, not to imagine we are coequal with Him. we're not coequal in terms of our salvation; He saves us & we have no capability to save ourselves - that is why He is the One who does it. we are not coequal in terms of the good works He saves us into; He works in us because we have no capability of our own to be good, as He is good. that is why He is the One who does it. we have no capability to justify ourselves before Him, to be upright before Him: he is the One who works these things in us and for us. all glory is His: i cast my crown at His feet

only when we submit all before Him and attribute all goodness to Him in humility, do we do 'good works' -- IMO, any work we attribute to our own desire, will & effort, is not a 'good' work. only the works that He is solely given reverence for, are good.
so i say, if any good thing comes from my conversation here, it isn't me, but Christ who works in me

Pilgrimshope · May 29, 2022

HeIsHere said:

amen one verse doesn’t erase the others they go together and make a bigger and better understanding

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:29‬ ‭

that verse is absolutely true and we all rely on the message in it but it doesn’t make this verse any less true or less relevant it clings to the other and adds more understanding

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when that part sinks into our heart of faith , we start hearing what Jesus taught his disciples to repent of and to also do and it becomes our new way of our new faith as we learn because we still today are his disciples.

we believe the gospel in order to learn from God the truth of eternal
Life with him in his kingdom how to get there and what’s ahead is all in the gospel

But this verse in the gospel

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

doesn’t change all the others concerning what Jesus said that can’t change ever so we have to let all
Of them be true and work together to create our narrow path as we grow in understanding the path begins to become straighter and we become more able to walk along it we just have to actually accept his word on the matter of salvation it’s why we’re called to believe in him alone for salvation

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is true it’s mans plight if we serve sin we will die like Adam and every man after died. But if we repent and believe the gospel

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All these references Jesus is talking about concerning him being sent by God to speak Gods word of judgement and everlasting life dates back to Moses writings the Christ would speak Gods true and everlasting word as well as die for the peoples sins to reconcile man and God a new beginning for mankind this would be and new word his word the gospel is now spoken and went into effect when Jesus died to fulfill the law.

His word promises everlasting life to hear it accept it and believe in him trusting his words are true and will save us Jesus is incapable of lying so his warnings about what not to keep doing are as true as his blessings and teachings of what to now do in his name in remembrance of him

There’s a path that becomes visible the more we study and seek him and what he was really offering man in his own words rather than what we’ve been told by other people

or what we can quote in a single verse all Of them are true one leads to another and another and another until the understanding is more complete

the catch is we should be careful because the more we learn and know the more we then need to live by it and will Be judged by also what we have heard and know of the gospel ( the teachings and instructions part that we actually learn from )

JaumeJ · May 29, 2022

There is no manner of believing Jesus Yeshi Yah without acting upon it . Any action worthy to be called of the faith in Jesus would have to be holy works afforded by God.

Believing leads to actions of gratitude, otherwise there is no faith there.

If the Master has given you a talent, do not bury it in the dirt.

posthuman · May 29, 2022

JaumeJ said:

amen

and every garment hidden beneath our tents, every devoted thing we thought to steal, will come to light
He knows all things

bless the LORD Almighty, rich in mercy, who forgives us - otherwise no one could be saved

tourist · May 29, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

I guess that God must've been confused then. Says one thing but means another. Like a politician. Slick.

tourist · May 29, 2022

JaumeJ said:

There is no manner of believing Jesus Yeshi Yah without acting upon it . Any action worthy to be called of the faith in Jesus would have to be holy works afforded by God.

Believing leads to actions of gratitude, otherwise there is no faith there.

If the Master has given you a talent, do not bury it in the dirt.

That's for sure, brother.

Roughsoul1991 · May 29, 2022

Runningman said:

Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, our Lord and Savior,

Please read this OP before answering.

Serious question looking for some answers. Thought maybe I could find some here. I want to post two scriptures and see what people conclude. I’ll post the KJV.

My question is this: is faith in Christ a work?

John 6:28,29 KJV
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If I understand correctly, Jesus is saying that the work God wants us to do to have salvation of our soul is to believe on His Son Jesus Christ.

However, Paul says that we are given a gift of being saved because of our faith and that it has nothing to do with our works or self-effort.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you.

Look up the meaning of pistis and pisteuo in Greek. Then look up scriptures with each word or both words in the same verse.

Aaron56 · May 29, 2022

Live4Him3 said:

Agreed. The twelve baskets of pieces was an indication that, even though they had all they could eat, they consumed not a morsel of Him: the bread from heaven.

posthuman · May 29, 2022

Live4Him3 said:

“If you knew the gift of God,

and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’

you would have asked Him,

and He would have given you living water.”

(John 4:10)

again,
that's why He tells them, you only ask how to do works because your belly was filled.
that's why He tells them, the work of God is to believe the One sent by God.

if they knew Him, if they understood, they wouldn't be asking how to do great works.
they would be asking Him to give them living bread
they would be asking for Him, for life, instead of concentrating on their own works, and their 'natural bread'

Nehemiah6 · May 29, 2022

tourist said:

Not at all. The Jews were the ones asking the wrong question. Instead of asking "What must we do to be saved?" they wanted to know how they might "work the works of God" (do miracles). So they received an ironic reply. And to speak about Christ as a slick politician is simply blasphemous.

posthuman · May 29, 2022

Live4Him3 said:

aye; this is an important thing to comprehend:

what makes our works greater?
greater, howso?
the Greek word is qualitative, not quantitative.
it categorically doesn't mean "more works" -- that's totally excluded by the grammar.

are we greater than God?
do we do greater things than God does?
nonsense! heresy! blasphemy!

so "greater" -- how?

key phrase: "because I go unto the Father"

Is faith a work?

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