Is Ferguson, MO. an EXAMPLE of Life AFTER the HOLY SPIRIT taken out of the WAY?

[Straightshot]

Hi Max

Keep them in line with the truth

There is so much distraction available for people to follow because they have not been well grounded in the Lord's Word

 

[VCO]

Wait till the civil suit hits and the fam loses again. ....round 2 anyone???

I am waiting for businesses to file a joint suite against the step-dad who was on that platform screaming over and over "Burn it down!" The crowd was fairly peaceful up to that point. I also think the businesses have a case against the Governor who failed to provide the National Guard he promised.

 

[VCO]

That whole shenanigan was all about making a case so that it can go to trial; but they had said that there weren't enough evidence for a case.

Outside big name agitators, were itching for a case they could make a BIG DEAL OUT OF, and jumped on hear say evidence that proved to be incorrect, WAY BEFORE all the facts were known. So they have a BIG SHARE OF THE BLAME for pushing the crowd into a frenzied mob mentality state that just exploded. I doubt if many at all in the crowd, heard the Evidence the Grand Jury released, because the lynch mob craziness was already planted, blinding them to the facts the Grand Jury presented.

 

[VCO]

After reading the passage a few times, from the OP, I was wondering if the one "restaining" is actually someone other than the Holy Spirit.
In Daniel, there is an image of spiritual warfare involving specific angels. Perhaps this is a reference to such warfare.
It doesn't actually mention the Holy Spirit in the passage,
and also the Holy Spirit is never labeled as such elsewhere.

Upon a literal reading, it takes a dispensational assumption to interpret the "until he is out of the way" to mean rapture of the Church, which seems implied by labeling the "restrainer" as the Holy Spirit.

Even with a dispensational viewpoint, it would still fit for, say Micheal or another angelic/supernatural force, to be the "restrainer".

I'm not expressing a view, just questioning the base assumptions.

Ferguson is a very good example of how quickly mankind turns to lawlessness when given the chance.
Good connection!

2 Thessalonians 2:7 (NKJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

2:7 Even when Paul wrote, the mystery of lawlessness was already at work. By this we understand that a tremendous spirit of disobedience to God was already stirring beneath the surface. It was at work in mystery form—not that it was mysterious but rather that it was not yet fully manifested. It was still in germ form.What has hindered the full display of this spirit? We believe that the presence of the Holy Spirit indwelling the church and indwelling every believer has been the restraining power. He will continue to exercise this function until He is taken out of the way, that is, at the Rapture.
But here an objection is raised. How can the Holy Spirit be removed from the world? As one of the Persons of the Godhead, isn't He omnipresent, that is, everywhere at all times? How then can He leave the world?
Of course, the Holy Spirit is omnipresent. He is always in all places at one and the same time. And yet there was a distinct sense in which He came to the earth on the Day of Pentecost. Jesus had repeatedly promised that He and the Father would send the Spirit (John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7. How then did the Spirit come? He came as the permanent Indweller of the church and of every believer. Until Pentecost the Spirit had been with believers, but since Pentecost He has dwelt in them (John 14:17). Until Pentecost the Spirit was known to depart from believers—hence David's prayer, "Do not take your Holy Spirit from me" (Ps. 51:11b). After Pentecost the Spirit remains forever in believers of the Church Age (John 14:16).
The Holy Spirit will, we believe, leave the world in the same sense in which He came at Pentecost—that is, as the abiding Indweller of the church and of each believer. He will still be in the world, convicting people of sin and leading them to saving faith in Christ. His removal at the Rapture does not mean that no one will be saved during the Tribulation. Of course they will. But these people will not be members of the church, but rather the subjects of Christ's glorious kingdom.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

The Holy Spirit of God is the only Person with sufficient (supernatural) power to do this restraining. Some object to this being the Holy Spirit on the grounds that [FONT=Gentium !important]to katechon[/FONT] in 2 Thessalonians 2:6 is neuter ("what is holding back"). But this is no problem for two reasons: (a) The neuter is sometimes used of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26; 16:13-14). (b) In 2 Thessalonians 2:7 the words are masculine: [FONT=Gentium !important]ho katechōn[/FONT], the one who... holds it back. How does He do it? Through Christians, whom He indwells and through whom He works in society to hold back the swelling tide of lawless living. How will He be taken out of the way? When the church leaves the earth in the Rapture, the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way in the sense that His unique lawlessness-restraining ministry through God's people will be removed (cf. Gen. 6:3). The removal of the Restrainer at the time of the Rapture must obviously precede the day of the Lord. Paul's reasoning is thus a strong argument for the pretribulational Rapture: the Thessalonians were not in the Great Tribulation because the Rapture had not yet occurred.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

Lawlessness will continue to get worse and worse, but the Holy Spirit will not let Satan go all the way in this age. When the Holy Spirit will be removed, it will be like taking the stopper out of the bottle -- the liquid of lawlessness will pour out all over the world in that day.When will the Holy Spirit be taken out? He will be taken out with the church. Won't the Holy Spirit be in the world during the Great Tribulation? Yes. Wasn't He in the world before Pentecost? He surely was. He was present in the days of the Old Testament, but He was on a different mission. And He will be on a different mission after the church is removed. Now the Spirit of God is sealing us until the day of redemption when He will present us and deliver us to the Lord Jesus. If He didn't do that, we would never make it. After He does that, I believe He will come back to the earth to resume His former mission down here. But He will not hinder evil -- He will let the Devil have his day for a while. Believe me, I don't want to be on the earth when the Devil has it! It looks bad enough to me as it is today; so I don't want to be here when it is turned over to him.

Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.

It is true that the power of lawlessness is already at work but is being held in check by a restrainer. The first reference to this restraining force (2:6) is a general term, leading readers throughout the centuries to speculate that Paul might be referring to the power of the Roman Empire, the ethical Jewish influence on the culture, or other possibilities. But Paul follows up with a personal reference in his next sentence (2:7). The one who holds back the power of lawlessness must certainly be God Himself.

Layman's Bible Commentary - Layman's Bible Commentary – Volume 11: Galatians thru Philemon.

2:6 The Thessalonians knew the truths in 2:3-4 (cf. 2:5) and, additionally, knew what is now... restraining (literally, 'holding down'). For them, this was a review. For the modern reader, this is information not revealed in this manner elsewhere in Scripture. The first factor precluding the Day of the Lord from being present is a restraining ministry. Who or what is the restraining one and what is being restrained? And for how long will the restraining activity go on? Lawlessness (2:7) is being restrained until the lawless one (see notes on 2:3-4) is revealed (2:8). This restraining ministry will continue until the restrainer moves aside (2:7). That much is rather clear in context, but who or what restrains?Numerous suggestions have been made as to the identity of the restrainer: (1) the Roman Empire; (2) human government; (3) the Jewish state; (4) gospel preaching; (5) the binding of Satan; (6) angels; (7) the providence of God; (8) some prophetic person like Elijah or Paul; (9) the church; or (10) the Holy Spirit. Which one is correct and why?
The lawless one is empowered by Satan (2:9; cf. Rev 13:2, 4), so who or what is powerful enough to severely restrain (not eliminate) Satan's influence over thousands of years? In reviewing the alternatives, the Holy Spirit seems most likely. See Overview, 'Ministries of the Holy Spirit' (2:13). Early in Scripture, the Holy Spirit exercised that kind of ministry (Gen 6:3) and there is no reason to believe that He has relinquished it (cf. John 16:8-11; Acts 7:51). Only God has the power to effectively control Satan and his delegated evil (cf. Michael the archangel who deferred to God in a conflict with Satan in Jude 9). Only the Holy Spirit is referred to in the New Testament with both the neuter gender (2:6) and the masculine gender (2:7), much like in John 16:13-14. How the Holy Spirit restrains is not mentioned, although it could possibly be through a combination of means such as human government (Rom 13:1-7) and true believers, i.e. the church.
The purpose of the present (now) restraining is so that he (the lawless one of 2:3, 8) may be revealed in his own time (literally, 'season'). Put another way, God ultimately controls the lawless one and will determine when a period of unhindered lawlessness will be permitted (revealed; 2:3, 6, 8) on earth.
2:7 However, it is not like lawlessness has not been present, for the mystery of lawlessness (1 John 3:4; 5:17) is already at work. It has been active in the world and the human race since the fall of Adam and Eve (Gen 3:1-7), but lawlessness remains a mystery in the sense that it has not yet been fully revealed or manifested in its worst, unchecked form. As sinful as the world has seemed to be in the past or as lawless as it appears currently, sin has been tempered in its spread and intensity by the restraining ministry of the Holy Spirit.This restraint will continue until He who now restrains... is taken out of the way. This does not mean that the Holy Spirit is removed or departs because believers have been raptured. The Holy Spirit will maintain His presence in the world after the Rapture. The phrase taken out of the way means 'moved to one side'. It is like the closed doors of a dam, which hold back the waters of a lake or river, being opened, or pulled aside, to let the torrent of formerly restrained water freely cascade forward. The restraining doors are still present, but they no longer restrain. In similar fashion, this is what Paul refers to here.

Focus on the Bible Commentary - Focus on the Bible Commentary – 1 & 2 Thessalonians: Triumphs and Trials of a Concecrated Church.

 

[VCO]

2 Thessalonians 2 King James Version (KJV)

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


It is SATAN that is taken out of the way, not the Holy Spirit.

You had better reread the entire context, because you may find yourself choking on your sock when you do.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For ⌊that day⌋ will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s sanctuary, publicizing that he himself is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:5-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Don’t you remember that when I was still with you I told you about this?
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And you know what currently restrains ⌊him⌋, so that he will be revealed in his time.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one now restraining will do so until he is out of the way,

2 Thessalonians 2:8-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will destroy him with the breath of His mouth {Rev. 19} and will bring him to nothing with the brightness of His coming.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The coming ⌊of the lawless one⌋ is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and with every unrighteous deception among those who are perishing. ⌊They perish⌋ because they did not accept the love of the truth in order to be saved.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe what is false,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But we must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God has chosen you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

 

[4enlightment]

Outside big name agitators, were itching for a case they could make a BIG DEAL OUT OF, and jumped on hear say evidence that proved to be incorrect, WAY BEFORE all the facts were known. So they have a BIG SHARE OF THE BLAME for pushing the crowd into a frenzied mob mentality state that just exploded. I doubt if many at all in the crowd, heard the Evidence the Grand Jury released, because the lynch mob craziness was already planted, blinding them to the facts the Grand Jury presented.

But yeah, they still could of had just created a trial to defuse the situation, and let the world hear the eyewitnesses testimonies. It would of had defuse it, but I believe that they wanted to create havoc, so that the federal government will increase their budget so that they can buy that puppy in the window.

 

[CRC]

Soon Christ will exercise his authority to destroy Satan’s wicked system. Christ’s perfect government will free the earth of sin and sorrow. It will remove all visible and invisible traces of rebellion against God’s rightful sovereignty.

 

[VCO]

But yeah, they still could of had just created a trial to defuse the situation, and let the world hear the eyewitnesses testimonies. It would of had defuse it, but I believe that they wanted to create havoc, so that the federal government will increase their budget so that they can buy that puppy in the window.

I guess you really do not understand the GRAND JURY process. I think it is a MUCH BIGGER DEAL, because they get to see ALL Evidence, and ASK THEIR OWN QUESTIONS, and therefore are COVERING ALL THE BASES, that a normal Trial Jury never gets to do. A normal Trial Jury only gets to see the evidence that the LAWYERS CHOOSE TO PRESENT, and they only get to hear the answers to the questions that the LAWYERS CHOOSE TO ASK. Sitting on that Jury, if they never asked a question that you really wanted asked to make an unbias decision, YOU have to make your decision only on the testimony and evidence presented, even if the whole story was never presented in the Courtroom.

 

[prodigious1one]

I find your statement funny -- I hope that it is not true, but it may be true in part, lol.

 

[sveinen]

we don't want evil pictures in our minds. we rather work on our own Salvation, Lively Loving Forwards.
i don' know what kind of timeline where from you're referring to there, but we seriously thinks we are now at a "things back out of the hands of enemy," ok. "seems to take some casualties."

 

[Bowman]

Just a thought...

 

[dcontroversal]

I think Ferguson, MO. is an EXAMPLE

of things to come, race war and ethnic clashes

and everyone againest brother and government,


u.s. will be torn apart ourselves and weak before the enemy takes us away

Leader against leader and violence in the land.....right before the DAUGHTER of BABYLON the Hindermost of the NATIONS gets devastated.

 

[dcontroversal]

If you ever need help, please don't call 911.
I am sure you would complaine about houw the police delt with the situation.

Don't worry as he would have to dial 000 and of course no corrupt cops in the land down under.

 

[VCO]

we don't want evil pictures in our minds. we rather work on our own Salvation, Lively Loving Forwards.
i don' know what kind of timeline where from you're referring to there, but we seriously thinks we are now at a "things back out of the hands of enemy," ok. "seems to take some casualties."

Work on our own Salvation ? ? ?

Ephesians 2:8-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

 

[VCO]

I find your statement funny -- I hope that it is not true, but it may be true in part, lol.

HERE is what I meant by a GRAND JURY, having more power to dig into all the evidence and interview ALL the witnesses, making it a much Bigger Deal than just a Jury Trial. THEY REALLY GET TO SEE AND HEAR IT ALL. Apparently a lot of people do not know that and falsely thought the Grand Jury was a lesser form of a Jury Trial, when it is a more POWERFUL way to get at the TRUTH.

Grand jury proceedings are much more relaxed than normal court room proceedings. There is no judge present and frequently there are no lawyers except for the prosecutor. The prosecutor will explain the law to the jury and work with them to gather evidence and hear testimony. Under normal courtroom rules of evidence, exhibits and other testimony must adhere to strict rules before admission. However, a grand jury has broad power to see and hear almost anything they would like.
However, unlike the vast majority of trials, grand jury proceedings are kept in strict confidence. This serves two purposes:

1. It encourages witnesses to speak freely and without fear of retaliation.
2. It protects the potential defendant's reputation in case the jury does not decide to indict.

The Grand Jury's Decision and a Prosecutor's Discretion
Grand juries do not need a unanimous decision from all members to indict, but it does need a supermajority of 2/3 or 3/4 agreement for an indictment (depending on the jurisdiction).
- See more at: How Does a Grand Jury Work? - FindLaw

 

[sveinen]

Work on our own Salvation ? ? ?

Ephesians 2:8-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

philippians 2:12 translations vary, but we think it goes well with your ephesians 2:10
thank you.

 

[VCO]

The Holy Spirit has been removed from America many years ago folks and do not blame it on one man. This is a SYSTEM that was create by MAN/Satan/Adam. Remember when the Senate during Rome period named Caesar(G-D). JESUS was against GOVERNMENT during his time. I weep for the liberty of my country when I see at this early day of its successful experiment that corruption has been imputed to many members of the House of Representatives, and the rights of the people have been bartered for promises of office.
Andrew Jackson

It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their own selfish purposes.
Andrew Jackson
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
Abraham Lincoln

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln

The masses of folks are ZOMBIES in America because they are under mind control by the ELITE. The ELITE understands the TACTIC of Divide/Conquer the sheep/chattel because they are STUPID. Have the character of a sheep, but not STUPID/MIND like a sheep.

I got NEWS FOR YOU, the HOLY SPIRIT IS PART OF GOD, and GOD is OMNIPRESENT AT ALL TIMES. "TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY" is a REFERENCE to HIS INDWELLING EVERY TRUE BELIEVER THAT IS PART OF THE CHURCH. Thus "Taken Out of the Way" INVOLVES us receiving our glorified bodies and being taking to our NEW DWELLING PLACE in Heaven, the New City Jerusalem. The HOLY SPIRIT HOWEVER remains OMNIPRESENT, and is actively involved in Tribulation Saints Believing and Receiving Jesus Christ as LORD, meaning Master. JUST LIKE O.T. Saints were SAVED, not BY THEIR WORKS, But By Believing GOD, just like Abraham did. HIS INDWELLING was promised to the Church, but that does not mean HE CANNOT CONTINUE TO SAVE BELIEVERS, after the CHURCH is Removed from Earth.

 

[VCO]

philippians 2:12 translations vary, but we think it goes well with your ephesians 2:10
thank you.

Philippians 2:12 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Now let me correct some false understanding about what this verse is saying compared to:

Ephesians 2:4-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), {WHEN WERE WE SAVED? When we were dead in trespasses, NOT AFTER WE HAVE LEARNED TO WALK IN OBEDIENCE.}
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved {Past Tense} through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. {SALVATION IS NOT PART OF WALKING IN OBEDIENCE, BECAUSE SALVATION HAPPENS BEFORE WE EVEN BEGIN OUR WALK OF OBEDIENCE.}

So what is He saying in Philippians 2:12? Let me paraphrase it for you: "So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, since the Day you were SAVED when you received HIM as LORD, which means MASTER; continue to manifest proof that you really were saved, by letting that Salvation that is IN YOU work it's way out in the way you live your life before others."

NOT BY WORKS, really does mean we are NOT SAVED BY WORKS.

 

[David_1]

I doesn't know why they just didn't take it to trial before a judge and jury?

You may not have had much to do with corruption behind the scenes.

I've seen in business laws broken, that are kept quiet and swept under the rug.

Who knows why there needed to be a conspiracy to have this guy not sit a trial. Maybe they thought, it's easier to get it dismissed before it starts, before actual evidence and scrutiny is released to the public.

 

[David_1]

I think Ferguson, MO. is an EXAMPLE

of things to come, race war and ethnic clashes

and everyone againest brother and government,


u.s. will be torn apart ourselves and weak before the enemy takes us away

Nah. I think your country has seen worse. I'd say Civil war was the worst.

Things are getting better.

The end times are 5000 years away, when the USA empire has long been buried and replaced by 3000 years of Chinese Empire rule.