Is God A Moral Monster?

[Roughsoul1991]

This is the question. What does God the Father who is spirit want with gold, jewels and other earthly riches that rust and rot away. Furthermore, how will giving money to the I AM save their souls. Can we buy salvation? Or is this an earthly Lord like we have in the Houses of Parliament?

Num 31:48-54 KJV
(48) And the officers which were over thousands of the host, the captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds, came near unto Moses:
(49) And they said unto Moses, Thy servants have taken the sum of the men of war which are under our charge, and there lacketh not one man of us.
(50) We have therefore brought an oblation for the LORD, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the LORD.
(51) And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of them, even all wrought jewels.
(52) And all the gold of the offering that they offered up to the LORD, of the captains of thousands, and of the captains of hundreds, was sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty shekels.
(53) (For the men of war had taken spoil, every man for himself.)
(54) And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of the captains of thousands and of hundreds, and brought it into the tabernacle of the congregation, for a memorial for the children of Israel before the LORD.

Do you tithe?

 

[PS]

PS I added a bit more at the bottom.

Ironic to Post script and simultaneously address a person

quoted post unrelated.

I suppose I should @ instead alas.

If it was about physical wealth, I read it, hence the video.

I cannot see anything below that. (Nice talking to you)

 

[PS]

Do you tithe?

Go on, what is your point?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You mean Romans 13.
(4) .... But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

I reckon Moses should have been put to the sword for all the evil he did. Neither can I believe the I AM commanding anyone to do evil. This would destine them to hell from which Christ came to save us. God is the one who has power over life and death.

Moses was part of the government. We already showed God commanded Moses. So your calling God evil for his judgment and command. You disbelieve all you want but that is the scripture with no evidence to prove otherwise.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Go on, what is your point?

Why tithe? What does God need with money?

 

[PS]

Why tithe? What does God need with money?

Bye.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

My question isn't about God's morality, but rather it's about the morality of humans. Even the regenerate man, the man who loves Christ still finds within himself moral lapses, and sinful behavior. If we are honest with ourselves, we find that even though we know what is good we even desire what is good, yeah we find ourselves doing what we know is wrong.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Why tithe? What does God need with money?

God doesn't need money. And the tithe is not for God. The tithe is a fellowship offering. It supports the fellowship of the saints, not that there is a new testament institution of the tithe, the fellowship offering is still a necessity and part of worship, so that there will be his word in the gathering place that we who believe might be able to gather around his word realm the bread of life an around the covenant in his blood so we might break bread together both bread which is food for physical life and his word which is spiritual life, the bread of life. We also provide this fellowship offering so that there will be bread for some to carry out into the world and bring others who would fellowship with us in into the fold along with us.

 

[PS]

God doesn't need money. And the tithe is not for God. The tithe is a fellowship offering. It supports the fellowship of the saints, not that there is a new testament institution of the tithe, the fellowship offering is still a necessity and part of worship, so that there will be his word in the gathering place that we who believe might be able to gather around his word realm the bread of life an around the covenant in his blood so we might break bread together both bread which is food for physical life and his word which is spiritual life, the bread of life. We also provide this fellowship offering so that there will be bread for some to carry out into the world and bring others who would fellowship with us in into the fold along with us.

Just to say that Paul did say the preacher/pastor/evangelist should be provided for. It is in the passage about not muzzling the ox who can then eat the grain. You will find it.

 

[ilkinengin76]

Here is a quote from a leading New Age Atheist.

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.​

Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Due to confusion from other threads on this very issue. I will in detail speak on this issue.

Most Christians believe the Bible to be the Word of God. To be true. And God to have certain characteristics like all loving but also all just. This is the typical belief. And for the time being I will assume we do not need to go into Biblical evidence or on how we can know the Bible to be true. I will start with that conclusion that the Bible is 100% true.

So with this in mind it is intellectually honest for people to question scriptures that deal with the killing of woman, children, God causing miscarriages, or a raped woman is forced to marry the rapist, or even slavery is brought up by critics. Now remember we say the Bible is true and the Word of God.

I will list 1 example of each.

1 Samuel 15:2-3, 8 New International Version (NIV)

2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.
3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
8 He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.

Numbers 5:21-22 New International Version (NIV)
21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 New International Version (NIV)
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Exodus 21:20-21 New International Version (NIV)
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

Those verses will fill your church pews wont they?

I'll start with 1 Samuel 15.

Let us remember God is Holy. A Holy being is perfect. God cannot sin but is all good and loving. But being Holy he must be just because sin cannot dwell with God. Adam cursed all of mankind.

Romans 5:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Was the Amalekites innocent? In God's eyes no one is innocent in less you in the OT followed the ceremonial sacrifices or in the NT put faith in Christ who became the ultimate sacrifice.

This was a point in history, a season in history, where God is the immediate king of a people, Israel, different than the way he is the king over the church, which is from all the peoples of Israel and does not have a political, ethnic dimension to it.

With Joshua there was a political, ethnic dimension, God was immediate king, and he uses this people as his instrument to accomplish his judgment in the world at that time.

The Amalekites was heavily pagan and seeping so deep in demonic evil for a very long time and God patiently waited as he does with any nations judgement in the OT. Their time had ran out and when God decides to judge a nation he is Just for doing so.

When God takes life he isn't a murderer but is well within his resume as the creator of life. Dealing with the Amalekites, Saul failed to kill all as God commanded and the Amalekites just a couple of decades later, there were enough to take David and his men’s families captive (1 Samuel 30:1-2). After David and his men attacked the Amalekites and rescued their families, 400 Amalekites escaped.

If Saul had fulfilled what God had commanded him, this never would have occurred. Several hundred years later, a descendant of Agag, Haman, tried to have the entire Jewish people exterminated (see the book of Esther).

So, Saul’s incomplete obedience almost resulted in Israel’s destruction. God knew this would occur, so He ordered the extermination of the Amalekites ahead of time.

I will add in time 3 more explanations of the next 3 scriptures critics like to pick out. I'll post this first one. Feel free to add more details for the new in faith.

By what standard? If God doesnt exist, then rape and murder are ok

 

[calibob]

There is a get-out clause, can't remember for sure, where the military can kill, otherwise every single soldier could be charged with murder.

But then this is mans law isn't it and the Ten Commandments do say not to kill.

No! That was a mistranslation. It is do not commit murder and in fact cities of refuge were established for those who comitted manslaughter.

 

[Dino246]

ONE GOD, lots of false gods.

Yes, there were many false gods that the other nations worshiped. Israel was deceived into worshiping them at times. However, the OT is consistent in presenting the God of Israel as one true God, not many false gods. Israel was continually called to return to the one God. Your position that Jesus is not the God of the OT is simply bunk and holds absolutely no weight when compared with the text of Scripture.

 

[PS]

No! That was a mistranslation. It is do not commit murder and in fact cities of refuge were established for those who comitted manslaughter.

Yes. The cities of refuge were established after they were settled in Israel. Murder is premeditated killing. This is building into quite a strong case against Moses is it not?

 

[Melach]

This is building into quite a strong case against Moses is it not?

what? case against moses?

 

[PS]

Yes, there were many false gods that the other nations worshiped. Israel was deceived into worshiping them at times. However, the OT is consistent in presenting the God of Israel as one true God, not many false gods. Israel was continually called to return to the one God. Your position that Jesus is not the God of the OT is simply bunk and holds absolutely no weight when compared with the text of Scripture.

I did not mean to give that impression and have frequently said the I AM guided them, kept them supplied with food (manor from heaven) saw them safely out of Egypt, and was always there for them. That being the case what G/god were they following when all the violence took place? Remember, the God of the Israilites was the god of war.

 

[PS]

what? case against moses?

Mass murder.

 

[Melach]

Mass murder.

whaaa? the israelites were commanded by God to spare none in the ot.

moses wasnt a criminal he was a good man. he did mistakes yes but so do we all. i love moses.

are yo one of those people who believe ot is different god? no proof for that. can you say to me more? what?? i dont understand you at all

 

[PS]

whaaa? the israelites were commanded by God to spare none in the ot.

moses wasnt a criminal he was a good man. he did mistakes yes but so do we all. i love moses.

are yo one of those people who believe ot is different god? no proof for that. can you say to me more? what?? i dont understand you at all

You haven't been following. I have to go out, so very quickly do you think it was Jesus the I AM who commanded Moses to kill thousands, steal, and allow young girls to be raped? Remember, the Israilites were always known for their worship of false gods.
Added, I do not believe Jesus would have ordered such a thing.

 

[Melach]

@PS yes i believe it was Jesus the I AM who told them to do that.

who do you think it was? if the Bible says it was God, and you say its someone else, why should i believe u, what evidence do you have for your claim that it was someone else? how do u decide when its the real God when its someone else in o.t? please get back to me when you return

 

[Dibby53]

If the Lord commanded it then you have a problem with God and his ways.

So tell me if the midianites had sinned repeatedly against God by chasing false gods and continually caused trouble for Israel then is God's judgment unjust? Generational curses follows mankind. So none are without excuse. God judges all but judges differently according to age, mental understanding, natural revelation or faith in Christ.

Technically God wanted all of them to be killed but due to disobedience they brought back captives. And Moses let the female girls live.

They are allowed only to keep the virgins......I wonder why??