Is God A Moral Monster?

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Oct 12, 2019
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Keep in mind these were'nt your typical Brady Bunch kind of families dwelling in Palestine. If God was preparing a people to usher in The Perfect Lamb to be slain for all mankind then some moral housekeeping was definately in order.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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non-sequitur.

if no one is in danger from a loving God, there is no danger whatsoever for anyone - even those, according to you, who hate God and call Him an evil murderer.

the only danger is if God is not only loving, but holy and just, and you try to live without Him - if you think you can pretend He's someone He's not, or think you can get away with hating Him without reprisal. the name Jesus means God is Salvation: the existence of Salvation undeniably implies there's something to be saved from. you know something called 'danger' exists - you said it. it's an intrinsic part of your vocabulary. what do you figure it is that necessitates the existence of salvation?
If you look at world events, and I include the Biblical record, it is usually those people who are quietly going about their everyday life, harming nobody who are attacked and killed. I do not have the words to describe these violently wicked people, but I am sure they will get what they deserve one day, meted out by a just God.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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You are of course free to believe what you like as long as you understand the consequences. You are not believing in God but a god of your own. Sorry to sound harsh but that is the case. God is the God in the Bible, any other God is not God.

In their own personal experience people don't usually experience God's wrath. Remember the Bible covers thousands of years and God is very patient. He waits hundreds or thousands of years to give people the chance to repent.

This is why it is important to read the whole Bible and understand it so you get the whole picture.
Please do not be so nieve as to blame God simply because the killer does it in their God's name.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Keep in mind these were'nt your typical Brady Bunch kind of families dwelling in Palestine. If God was preparing a people to usher in The Perfect Lamb to be slain for all mankind then some moral housekeeping was definately in order.
Jesus would have come anyway.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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non-sequitur.

if no one is in danger from a loving God, there is no danger whatsoever for anyone - even those, according to you, who hate God and call Him an evil murderer.

the only danger is if God is not only loving, but holy and just, and you try to live without Him - if you think you can pretend He's someone He's not, or think you can get away with hating Him without reprisal. the name Jesus means God is Salvation: the existence of Salvation undeniably implies there's something to be saved from. you know something called 'danger' exists - you said it. it's an intrinsic part of your vocabulary. what do you figure it is that necessitates the existence of salvation?
If Jesus reigned in everyone's heart, it would be heaven on earth. :)
 
Sep 29, 2019
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sure. why go with what the Bible says about God when you've got a much more palatable idea in your mind?

and here you go saying the Bible has 'more enlightened' bits and 'less enlightened' bits! who do you think you are?
gwan stage your intervention with the Almighty. tell Him '
clean up your act!'
the heart of the wise is in the house of mourning!
Who do I think I am? That is a huge question. "Know thyself" was one of the most important maxims of the greek world. In fact it was written on the temple of Apollo at Delphi.

However, I do have the ability to think, reason, contemplate and question. I have my own relationship to the divine that is personal.
I am able to say what speaks to me and what does not. I am not going to allow someone elses experience to usurp my experience of life whether they are modern or ancient.

God is not frightened of questioning.
Any God that would need to threaten me into a loving relationship ( which is impossible anyway, that's tyrannical) is not worthy of worship.
 
Sep 29, 2019
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You are of course free to believe what you like as long as you understand the consequences. You are not believing in God but a god of your own. Sorry to sound harsh but that is the case. God is the God in the Bible, any other God is not God.

In their own personal experience people don't usually experience God's wrath. Remember the Bible covers thousands of years and God is very patient. He waits hundreds or thousands of years to give people the chance to repent.

This is why it is important to read the whole Bible and understand it so you get the whole picture.
I could just as easily say to you that you are only believing in a God that other people have presented to you, rather than one you experience.

And what "consequences" would there be for me as I seek to know God more? That sounds like an implied threat of Christian fear again.....like I need to be scared of using my own mind.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
I could just as easily say to you that you are only believing in a God that other people have presented to you, rather than one you experience.

And what "consequences" would there be for me as I seek to know God more? That sounds like an implied threat of Christian fear again.....like I need to be scared of using my own mind.
Well said.
It has been said many times, the divide in the church, which are the faithful in Christ, arrives when the indwelling Holy Spirit is veiled by one's belief in the Bible, rather than in God that preexisted that creation of man.
We are in relationship with the greatest power in all of creation. Inexplicable as it actually exists within the limited imaginings of mind and language of the human tongue. It is all, in all and no thing that exists is other than of and within that which we call, God.

And yet, it is so easy for us to believe God is confined between the pages of a book. And only there is "he" found. And only that which is written of him is to be believed.
The question then arises, which Bible? The Catholic, with 73 books? Or the Protestant, with 66?

No, you are not to be afraid of your Father in Heaven. What many interpret as that, being scared of, is actually meant to convey reverential awe of God. Respect. The Book of 2nd Timothy chapter 1:7 For God gave us not a spirit of fearfulness; but of power and love and discipline.
The Book of 1st John chapter4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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I totally understand that context is everything and that things were pretty awful in those days. So the rapist married the woman that he raped as a " punishment" to him, but for her own good? I do understand the historical context and the barbarism of the times. But since you probably believe that God wrote the bible and spoke to those people, is that seriously the best he could come up with?? As history it is tragic enough, but to believe that an all loving, wise and good universal God commanded it is devoid of all reason and compassion.
Unless, like me, you believe that the bible is really a journey into a greater understanding of God? That they wrote of their understanding of the God, rather than God speaking directly as he is?
Besides not having a clue about hermeneutics, which is probably just as well, since you don't believe the Bible, you have no comprehension of the character of God.

You keep harping that God's character is love and compassion, forgetting that justice is the other side of the same coin. You have made up a god that is palatable to you, then you attack the real God revealed in the Bible, proving (in your own mind!) that your god is a better one than the Bible, and in a feat of some kind of perverse logic, you demand that we all acknowledge the Bible is not true, because it does not conform to your made up god.

Really, your understanding of who God is, is infantile and self serving. We start with the Bible, and we pull out the character of God from the narratives, the wisdom literature, the prophets, the gospels in Jesus, and in Acts and the epistles and Revelation. Anything else is you laying your opinions on the real God, and trying to obscure who he is.

When you have read and studied the Bible over 50 times, ( like me!) plus in the original Greek and Hebrew, maybe you will have the right to share your pretentious, arrogant imaginings. Until then, you are not credible as to the truth of God found from Genesis to Revelation, a God you do not know!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,717
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If you look at world events, and I include the Biblical record, it is usually those people who are quietly going about their everyday life, harming nobody who are attacked and killed. I do not have the words to describe these violently wicked people, but I am sure they will get what they deserve one day, meted out by a just God.
when Moses came down from Sinai and found the people had made an idol of Molech - and 3,000 of them were slain - was that just?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,717
13,519
113
It has been said many times, the divide in the church, which are the faithful in Christ, arrives when the indwelling Holy Spirit is veiled by one's belief in the Bible, rather than in God that preexisted that creation of man.
so you don't believe the Bible either?
Dibby thinks idiots wrote it, PS thinks half of it was authored by Satan, and now you say it's a '
creation of man' that inhibits true knowledge?
 

ilkinengin76

Junior Member
Apr 5, 2018
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hmm I just read most of Joshua 10 and 11 there seems there was about a half dozen or more cities completely wiped out with no one left breathing, I assume that included the old, young, new born, mothers and fathers.

can anyone shed some light on that topic?
its like stealing from the biblical world view, to bash the biblical world view. by what standard is anything immoral apart from God?
 

ilkinengin76

Junior Member
Apr 5, 2018
21
12
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when Moses came down from Sinai and found the people had made an idol of Molech - and 3,000 of them were slain - was that just?
yes it was. question is, why did God allow adam and eve to live, when they were guilty of breaking Gods command?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,717
13,519
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Keep in mind these were'nt your typical Brady Bunch kind of families dwelling in Palestine. If God was preparing a people to usher in The Perfect Lamb to be slain for all mankind then some moral housekeeping was definately in order.
Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods. Do not let them live in your land or they will cause you to sin against Me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you.
(Exodus 23:32-33)
they would have had the children of Israel sacrificing their children to Molech in superheated hollow metal bull-idols.
by driving them out & destroying them, God - who is always good - is saving His people and sparing them from the great evil they would have done to themselves.


some people seem to think it would be an unforgivable encroachment of the holy sovereign free agency of the sacrosanct will of humankind if i were to slap the knife out of a persons hand that they are about to commit suicide with! smh
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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when Moses came down from Sinai and found the people had made an idol of Molech - and 3,000 of them were slain - was that just?
It contravened the 6th commandment.
Romans 12:19
“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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yes it was. question is, why did God allow adam and eve to live, when they were guilty of breaking Gods command?
Precisely. You have hit the nail on the head. Now tell us the answer. Why did the creator God do one thing and the God of Moses tell him to do the opposite, bearing in mind God is unchanging?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods. Do not let them live in your land or they will cause you to sin against Me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you.
(Exodus 23:32-33)
they would have had the children of Israel sacrificing their children to Molech in superheated hollow metal bull-idols.
by driving them out & destroying them, God - who is always good - is saving His people and sparing them from the great evil they would have done to themselves.


some people seem to think it would be an unforgivable encroachment of the holy sovereign free agency of the sacrosanct will of humankind if i were to slap the knife out of a persons hand that they are about to commit suicide with! smh
I do not believe the true God is the destroyer.