Is God that cruel?
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You might find this reading helpful. http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
You might find this reading helpful. http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
Nope! Wrong answer . . .
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:18-20).
The only excuse these people might have . . . and I said MIGHT HAVE . . . is if God is so inept that He could not preserve His Word throughout all generations. But I think you would lose that bet also.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:18-20).
The only excuse these people might have . . . and I said MIGHT HAVE . . . is if God is so inept that He could not preserve His Word throughout all generations. But I think you would lose that bet also.
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There is no such thing as biblical death. Death is simply death, you cease to be. Everything is gone, annihilated. You can twist and turn words like destruction to say whatever you believe; when all is said and done either God's word says just what it means or it is lies. 
Parents are to discipline their wayward children lest they end up in hell . . .
"Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell" (Proverbs 23:14).
Gosh, the Bible says there is a hell.
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Proverbs 23:14 (CJB)
14 If you beat him with a stick,
you will save him from Sh’ol.
Proverbs 23:14 (AMPC)
14 You shall whip him with the rod and deliver his life from Sheol (Hades, the place of the dead).
14 If you beat him with a stick,
you will save him from Sh’ol.
Proverbs 23:14 (AMPC)
14 You shall whip him with the rod and deliver his life from Sheol (Hades, the place of the dead).
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Be aware that Sheol and Hades simply refers to the grave. Our doctrine of a dwelling place of the dead is inserted into Strong's Concordance as a reference. The reference in Revelation where they are tormented day and night forever, their smoke ascending forever could refer to something captured on film, therefore forever preserved. The reference in Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched" I believe is another example of that. It just does not make sense of a maggot that never dies. Anyway, hades is finally tossed into the lake of fire. You can't do that with a dwelling place.
All said, as I stated before all scripture has to fit together, in what we teach, or none of it is valid. Some things were presented in parables with figurative speech. Some things maybe we don't quite understand yet. God will not reveal some things until He is ready for us to know. I feel Lazarus and the rich man is a parable despite the proper names.
All said, as I stated before all scripture has to fit together, in what we teach, or none of it is valid. Some things were presented in parables with figurative speech. Some things maybe we don't quite understand yet. God will not reveal some things until He is ready for us to know. I feel Lazarus and the rich man is a parable despite the proper names.
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One of these days I’m going check out one these threads, with post after post of supposition and misquotes, and avoid the urge to comment. Some day....but not today. Are people here too brilliant, to be corrected? I already know whatever the topic, whatever side I choose to debate, those who already agree will continue to agree, and those who oppose will stay being ignorant (😀). Both sides use multiple verses out of context to defend and attack. What continues to shock me is everybody’s concrete assuredness that they are correct and everyone to the contrary is functionally retarded. It’s not a discussion. It’s not a debate. It’s a sword(of the Spirit) fight. Here’s a dose of reality I would like to prescribe; nobody knows anything! We are ALL speculating! No matter how many Bible verses you can clobber with, you are guessing they were copied correctly. translated accurately, understood properly and intended for everyone. Yes...guessing! I know this because if you had it entirely accurate, there would be no debate. It would be obvious, not just to you, to everyone sane. By the time anyone of us gets the verdict who is right, they can’t say, “I told you so!” because you’re dead.
Honestly, how many precious hours will we waste arguing Calvinism, old earth, predestination and once saved always saved? In all of my years here I’ve never seen one person change their mind. Not ONE! Why do it? Unless we are prepared to learn from someone, we don’t belong in a discussion.
Honestly, how many precious hours will we waste arguing Calvinism, old earth, predestination and once saved always saved? In all of my years here I’ve never seen one person change their mind. Not ONE! Why do it? Unless we are prepared to learn from someone, we don’t belong in a discussion.
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I don't care if I ever change a person's mind . . . that's not my job. The Holy Spirit can do it if He has a mind to. My job is to try and prevent honest seekers from falling into heresy that may damn their souls. If I can post a Bible verse that will cause one of these seekers to go to his/her Bible for the answer -- instead of these "ministers of righteousness" serving the "angel of light." Than I am happy.
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There is no such thing as biblical death. Death is simply death, you cease to be. Everything is gone, annihilated. You can twist and turn words like destruction to say whatever you believe; when all is said and done either God's word says just what it means or it is lies.
7And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heavenb and consumed them, 10and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Yes, and this is after the second resurrection. They were dead then they were resurrected to the great ingathering festival of the last great day. Then comes the second death.
Well, seeing I was once a semi-Pelagianist who held to free will, modalism, then Arianism, now seeing the triune Godhead, once Amillennialism, now leaning towards historic premillennialism, and now am thoroughly reformed, I beg to differ.
There is much to learn from sites like this.
There is much to learn from sites like this.
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Nope!!
I pray for people I know who deny God, refuse God, claim He does not exist "that whatever it take God, make this person know You are real and the only one who can bring healing, restoration, salvation"..
Is my prayer cruel, when you consider a person could lose family members, lose the ability to walk, lose friends, become the epitome of hopelessness, end up in jail/prison, anything that seems harsh and bad can be added here in order to wake these people up to believe in God?
I believe my prayer is on the same line as God casting a sinner into the Lake of Fire, because ultimately, my prayer is the same as how God will do anything to ensure no one goes to eternal damnation. He died for them! He proved He does not want them there. But as a sovereign God, He will not interfere in a person's personal choice to deny Him and walk away from Him.
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