Is God that cruel?

[Lillywolf]

Boy is that ever true.

It doesn't even matter that articles are linked to prove the fire and brimstone Hell in contemporary versions of the Bible were never in the original texts at all. There remain those dedicated to the new versions of the Bible.

And some, when really working to ignore the original texts and the whole idea of an omniscient Father choosing who would be saved and who would not, and as pertains to those who believe in that fire and brimstone eternal bottomless pit of suffering, accept that that omniscient Father would necessarily have created the destiny of those who he foreknew would not be saved to suffer eternally in fire. And they then invoke, when up against it, that Hell is real because God the Father's word is inerrant.

Which version? The 1611 KJV that had 14 books that the current KJV does not? Those omitted books means the words of God are not inerrant.

That's because God is perfect and The Word is too. While man's invention of the printing press insured man would eventually arrive at hundreds of versions of what God has to say to the world. And that makes man's word what is published. While God remains perfect. And his original words his message. No Hell.

When the introduction of a fire eternal suffering place has a history of being interpolated into the written scriptures, that's man's doing. That's man's history of abrogating God's original words. People don't believe that. But yet they believe utterly in the culmination of that in all those many versions that came to pass.
Weird.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

in Genesis 1:1 - God created the heavens and the earth

it did not say "God created hell", why did Genesis 1:1 leave that out?

Hell was 'created' for the devil and the rebellious angels . . . not for man. But man has given God no other choice.

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41).

 

[Lillywolf]

Heaven is a perfect place, a prepared place for prepared people. If an imperfect thing were to enter into heaven it would no longer be a perfect place.

Hell is real.

But only by going there will people be convinced. By then, it is too late to make amends.

Those who abrogated God's words so as to insist his omni-benevolent omniscient predestination of all souls made those he foreknew to suffer eternity in a bottomless pit full of fire and brimstone, bottomless, so where does the fire and brimstone stack up so as to make a pit or a lake of fire and brimstone, will have to answer to God for their teaching he was that kind of creator of all people who were within and of him.
"In Christ were created all things in heaven and on earth everything visible and everything invisible.... Before anything was created, he existed, and he holds all things in unity."Colossians 1:15-17

"In him we live, and move, and have our being.... "We are his offspring."Acts 17.28

"...one God and Father of all, who is over everything, through everything, and in everything. "Ephesians 4:6

Ecclesiasticus 43: 27We may speake much, & yet come short: wherefore in summe, he is all.

 

[Lillywolf]

Hell was 'created' for the devil and the rebellious angels . . . not for man. But man has given God no other choice........

Man outwitted God. Man has given omnipotent omniscience no other choice. Man insured God has zero options.

Behold the power of MAN!

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

We'll see . . .

 

[Lillywolf]

We'll see . . .

No, "we" shall not. You shall.

 

[Absolutely]

No one has gone or is going to heaven. Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. Maybe after the millennial rule and the Judgment period, we go to heaven, or outer space, or other galaxies, or ...

The innumerable number before the throne in rev .
Paul claimed to go and return
John claimed the same
The elders

All people in heaven

 

[Absolutely]

..oh,and rev 19 has the bride,the saints in heaven on horseback

 

[jameen]

Let.s say you have a son..and he did something terible, hurt someone or broke something...you as a parent, would you send him to burn in hell for eternity because of that?...i guess not, cause he's your son and you love him...so i ask you..how could God punish people with an eternity in hell because of their sins...God, who is pure love...he could to that? Isn.t that a little cruel?

God sends people to hell only for those who really are unrepentant. In fact you can see this in the Scriptures (take note the words underlined and bolded)

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

God in fact punishes sinful men with misfortunes and diseases until they repented. similar to the history of the children of Israel in the Old Testament.

Punishment in Hell is only reserved for people who are really unrepentant at all.

Men have chance to repent until they die or until Jesus' coming. if they failed to do that, sorry you'll go to hell.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

The most hated men in hell will be all those Universalist preachers/pastors that convinced the members of their churches that they did not need to get saved because no one will ever go to hell.

 

[ac28]

No one has gone or is going to heaven. Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. Maybe after the millennial rule and the Judgment period, we go to heaven, or outer space, or other galaxies, or ...

The Calling for every person that has lived since 64AD is the Heavenly Places, Far above the Starry Heavens, in the Heaven of Heavens, where Christ ascended to and now sits at the right hand of God, Eph 1:20 (Christ), Eph 2:6 (Us - Same place). This is not found in the OT, the Gospels, or Acts. It is found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. Everything in those 7 books is part of a Mystery that was hid in God since the world began, Eph 3:9, Col 1:26, and was revealed to Paul after the end of Acts, Eph 3:3.
Eph 1:20
"Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, "
Eph 2:6
"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: "
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:26
"Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: "
Eph 3:3
"How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; "

We Gentiles, who God foresaw that we would want to SEE the Hope of our calling, were chosen since before the world began, Eph 1:4. Our citizenship is in Heaven, Phil 3:20.

Eph 1:4
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"
Phil 3:20 ESV
"But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

This is totally unassociated from Israel. It's 100% Gentile plus those few Jews who Have accepted Christ. No Jew in the Bible is ever said to have a chance to go to Heaven. Israel are an earthly people, The Gentiles are a Heavenly people. In vs 2 below we are told basically to ignore things on the earth. That includes anything and everything associated with earthly Israel. In vs 4, when Christ appears in Glory, which is above the Heavens, Ps 8:1, we will be there with Him. The is called the "Appearing", the "epiphaneia", 2Tim 4:1, 8, Titus 2:13. This is not the Rapture, the parousia. In fact, the word parousia doesn't appear in the after-Acts epistles

Col 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Ps 8:1
O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2Tim 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Tim 4:8,
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

I might mention that very few people have been given the eyes to SEE these verses and claim them. In Eph 1:17-18, Paul prays that God will give the eyes of understanding to SEE the Hope of our calling. I believe that God won;t allow you to see your Hope if you still believe that the myriad of Israel's things are yours but aren't, things like the Rapture, the New Jerusalem, the Gifts, Abraham being your father, the earthly Kingdom, etc. I could fill a page with these. In essence, except for Jesus Christ, NOTHING that was ever given to Israel was given to the Gentile today. The things that belong to you are found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts Books.

Eph 1:16-18
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

I'm convinced that those that retain all their Israel baggage, that the Denominational Church System tells you is yours but isn't, about 99+% of you will never go the the Highest Heaven, but instead, will go though the white throne judgment and end up on the New Earth with the nation Israel. Many are called, but few are chosen.

I believe everything I wrote and have believed it for 30 years. I didn't think all this up. It was discovered to be hidden in plain sight in the Bible, only, about 110 years ago. It's the ONLY way the Bible works without a hitch, and it totally removes contradictions. I pray that at least person will be given the eyes to see this. If you see it, obey 2Tim 2:15 (rightly divide, correctly cut God's Word) and mentally cut and divide between the end of Acts (59 books) and beginning of Ephesians (7 books - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon). Assuming you're saaved, put the 59 books on the shelf and concentrate on the 7 for a few months, especially Eph and Col. Just remember that nothing in the 59 books, except Christ, has anything to do with your future. Pray for God to give you the eyes to see the hope of your calling in Eph and Col, especially. Getting rid of the Jewish baggage is a work in progress. It took me about 10 years.

God is filling the 3 parts of His universe with human Saints, to run things, I believe. From Gen 12 through Acts, about 2000 years, He was filling the New Earth and the all-Israel New Jerusalem with Israel Saints. The NJ has a gate for each tribe and no gate for Gentiles, although there will be a few from Acts. From the end of Acts, 64AD through about 2064, 2000 years, He is filling Heavenly Places, God's abode, with Gentile Saints.

 

[UnderGrace]

1. Your entire premise is in error
2. God does not love everybody
3. God gave HIS SON to extreme torment and violent, bloody death for the sake of His elect.

Now then, why are we called to love our enemies, when God does not love everyone?

So our love must surpass the love of God?

Defies understanding really.

 

[theanointedwinner]

So our love must surpass the love of God?

beautiful critical thinking, such wondrous question,

if love can surpass the love of God, why does God give us the commandment to "love the Lord your God with all your all", such high and holy standard, we fall short

Romans 3:23 - fall short of God's glory

and Jesus did not die in vain, his grace is enough,

therefore, God loves everyone, even though the concept of hell challenge our belief that God is love.

 

[Lillywolf]

The most hated men in hell will be all those Universalist preachers/pastors that convinced the members of their churches that they did not need to get saved because no one will ever go to hell.

Universalist's arrive at the idea based on scripture. 1 John 2:2,
1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

2nd Timothy 1:9 Who has saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began....

Colossians 1:20... and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.


"Love your neighbor as yourself” Matthew 22:39 , Mark 12:31

 

[Lillywolf]

The Calling for every person that has lived since 64AD is the Heavenly Places, Far above the Starry Heavens, in the Heaven of Heavens, where Christ ascended to and now sits at the right hand of God, Eph 1:20 (Christ), Eph 2:6 (Us - Same place). This is not found in the OT, the Gospels, or Acts. It is found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. Everything in those 7 books is part of a Mystery that was hid in God since the world began, Eph 3:9, Col 1:26, and was revealed to Paul after the end of Acts, Eph 3:3.
Eph 1:20
"Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, "
Eph 2:6
"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: "
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:26
"Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: "
Eph 3:3
"How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; "

We Gentiles, who God foresaw that we would want to SEE the Hope of our calling, were chosen since before the world began, Eph 1:4. Our citizenship is in Heaven, Phil 3:20.

Eph 1:4
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"
Phil 3:20 ESV
"But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

This is totally unassociated from Israel. It's 100% Gentile plus those few Jews who Have accepted Christ. No Jew in the Bible is ever said to have a chance to go to Heaven. Israel are an earthly people, The Gentiles are a Heavenly people. In vs 2 below we are told basically to ignore things on the earth. That includes anything and everything associated with earthly Israel. In vs 4, when Christ appears in Glory, which is above the Heavens, Ps 8:1, we will be there with Him. The is called the "Appearing", the "epiphaneia", 2Tim 4:1, 8, Titus 2:13. This is not the Rapture, the parousia. In fact, the word parousia doesn't appear in the after-Acts epistles

Col 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Ps 8:1
O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2Tim 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Tim 4:8,
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

I might mention that very few people have been given the eyes to SEE these verses and claim them. In Eph 1:17-18, Paul prays that God will give the eyes of understanding to SEE the Hope of our calling. I believe that God won;t allow you to see your Hope if you still believe that the myriad of Israel's things are yours but aren't, things like the Rapture, the New Jerusalem, the Gifts, Abraham being your father, the earthly Kingdom, etc. I could fill a page with these. In essence, except for Jesus Christ, NOTHING that was ever given to Israel was given to the Gentile today. The things that belong to you are found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts Books.

Eph 1:16-18
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

I'm convinced that those that retain all their Israel baggage, that the Denominational Church System tells you is yours but isn't, about 99+% of you will never go the the Highest Heaven, but instead, will go though the white throne judgment and end up on the New Earth with the nation Israel. Many are called, but few are chosen.

I believe everything I wrote and have believed it for 30 years. I didn't think all this up. It was discovered to be hidden in plain sight in the Bible, only, about 110 years ago. It's the ONLY way the Bible works without a hitch, and it totally removes contradictions. I pray that at least person will be given the eyes to see this. If you see it, obey 2Tim 2:15 (rightly divide, correctly cut God's Word) and mentally cut and divide between the end of Acts (59 books) and beginning of Ephesians (7 books - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon). Assuming you're saaved, put the 59 books on the shelf and concentrate on the 7 for a few months, especially Eph and Col. Just remember that nothing in the 59 books, except Christ, has anything to do with your future. Pray for God to give you the eyes to see the hope of your calling in Eph and Col, especially. Getting rid of the Jewish baggage is a work in progress. It took me about 10 years.

God is filling the 3 parts of His universe with human Saints, to run things, I believe. From Gen 12 through Acts, about 2000 years, He was filling the New Earth and the all-Israel New Jerusalem with Israel Saints. The NJ has a gate for each tribe and no gate for Gentiles, although there will be a few from Acts. From the end of Acts, 64AD through about 2064, 2000 years, He is filling Heavenly Places, God's abode, with Gentile Saints.

John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man.

 

[theanointedwinner]

The most hated men in hell will be all those Universalist preachers/pastors that convinced the members of their churches that they did not need to get saved because no one will ever go to hell.

wager not to be a universalist

even though in my opinion, Blaise Pascal should have read James 2:19

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder (James 2:19)

James 2:19 refutes the pascal's wager as pointless
just believing (or wagering) is not good enough

without God's power of sincerity on making the decision, no one get's saved.

 

[UnderGrace]

The most hated men in hell will be all those Universalist preachers/pastors that convinced the members of their churches that they did not need to get saved because no one will ever go to hell.

That is not really what Universalist teach btw

 

[ac28]

John 3:13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man.

True. At this point, only Christ has gone to Heaven, but God plans on filling His abode with Gentile Saints, as those passages I posted prove beyond a doubt. That's what the last 2000 years was all about.

 

[Deade]

True. At this point, only Christ has gone to Heaven, but God plans on filling His abode with Gentile Saints, as those passages I posted prove beyond a doubt. That's what the last 2000 years was all about.

You seem to forget that God's saints talk like God does in calling the future as though it were already here. Also there is a heavenly realm right on earth and even more so after Christ's return. Still, it is only Jesus that has ascended to heaven. This epistle was written well after what you think is a turning point:

1 Cor. 15:23 "But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ."

Now go to Hebrews 11 and see who is still awaiting the first resurrection.

 

[Deade]

I'm convinced that those that retain all their Israel baggage, that the Denominational Church System tells you is yours but isn't, about 99+% of you will never go the the Highest Heaven, but instead, will go though the white throne judgment and end up on the New Earth with the nation Israel. Many are called, but few are chosen.

I believe everything I wrote and have believed it for 30 years. I didn't think all this up. It was discovered to be hidden in plain sight in the Bible, only, about 110 years ago. It's the ONLY way the Bible works without a hitch, and it totally removes contradictions.

So for the last 30 years you believe you are part of a one-percent elect that are going to co-rule with Jesus? It was only discovered 110 years ago. Hmmm... Where was the Holy Spirit during those other 1900 or so years?