Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

[Tandemtruths]

I'm praying for you Eccl12and13. The evidence has been presented, the word has been laid out to edify. It is between the Spirit and yourself now brother.

 

[zone]

But can anyone find just ONE place is ALL of God's word that states Faith and FAITH ALONE is ALL that is required for salvation?

Just ONE VERSE!

Just ONE!

maybe you're looking in the wrong place.

Romans 1:17
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

 

[Eccl12and13]

Come on all of you readers and students of God's word.....all of you that have gone to classes and seminars and work shops to learn of God's word.


Did you not know that having faith was a law?

Do you not know the moment God knew for a fact that Abraham had faith in Him and His word?

Do you not know what caused God to know for a fact that Abraham had faith in Him?

Were you not taught this by your pastor or given this knowledge by the Holy Spirit?


We have the law that we must love God with all of out might!
We have the law that we must love our neighbor!
We have the law that we must have faith!
We have the law that we must ask for forgiveness when we pray!


Do you really believe a Christian can NOT do the above and still be allowed into God's kingdom?

Are there yet some that believe ONLY faith is needed for salvation?

And are there STILL some that believe that keeping God's laws are NOT needed for salvation?



.

 

[Eccl12and13]

It's clearly obvious in James 2:10. To offend in one point makes you guilty of all the law. That's the level of perfection the law requires. One offense and your condemned.

Let's use a little logic here.

First.... The above states that if you break one law it is as though you have broken them all. This does not sat that you must keep all of God's laws perfectly.

Next.... If God stood by that then NONE would have a chance to enter into God's kingdom.

Next.... The above does NOT say the one that breaks just one law is condemned....it just says if one breaks a law of God it is as though they have broken them all.


Again....where does God say in the above scripture that you must keep His laws perfectly?


.

 

[loveme1]

Luke 23

54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

According to the commandment.

 

[Mediate]

Out of your own mouth Gandhi.

Romans 10: 9-10 :
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved . 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Yea, exactly what i said.

Im not saved by a profession of grace through faith, or for that matter, saved by anything i do.

Jesus already did it all for me.

 

[Mediate]

Ive got nothing to fear. Because theres nothing your words can take from me except favour in the sight of other people.

 

[haz]

Let's use a little logic here.

Remember it's spiritual discernment (1Cor 2:14 ),not foolish physical logic, that gives us understanding.

First.... The above states that if you break one law it is as though you have broken them all. This does not sat that you must keep all of God's laws perfectly.

Next.... If God stood by that then NONE would have a chance to enter into God's kingdom.

Next.... The above does NOT say the one that breaks just one law is condemned....it just says if one breaks a law of God it is as though they have broken them all.
Again....where does God say in the above scripture that you must keep His laws perfectly?

Like I said, you refuse to acknowledge what scriptures such as James 2:10 says because it contradicts the doctrine you follow.

We all know that the wages of sin/transgression of the law, is death.
The law is also referred to as the ministry of death/condemnation, 2Cor 3:7,9.
We know that by the obedience/works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
We also know that by the law every mouth is stopped and the world becomes guilty before God, Rom 3:19.
This all clearly speaks of perfect obedience being required for those under the law.

You choose to ignore all the above as it contradicts your gospel.


But your doctrine which claims that some ambiguous/indistinct level of obedience to the law is required or else damnation results, is error. You still have not shown any scriptures to support your ambiguous level of obedience/works of the law doctrine. How could anyone under such doctrines ever know if their truly following the Way?

Let's look at this ambiguous gospel you follow, as described in your quote below. You said:

God is a loving and forgiving God. But He does have as limit. He does have a point at which He will say ENOUGH! For some it may be just once or twice. For others it may be several or even hundreds or thousands of times.

God does not contradict Himself. He will forgive sins BUT.....He will also come to a point when He says enough and punish those that sin against Him!

But does any of us know when enough will be enough? Do WE know that number?


Note how you don't even know whether God forgives once, twice, several times or hundreds of times, depending on the individual. You describe God's forgiveness as some ambiguous/indistinct forgiveness that gives Christians no assurance of whether they are saved or not after they receive Christ.

The thief on the cross was truly blessed in receiving Christ on his deathbed. He had that assurance that in receiving Christ he was saved. But under your doctrine anyone who receives Jesus and lives on for years as a Christian, they have no such assurance as it's dependent upon some unknowable ambiguous level of obedience/works of the law (that you cannot support from scripture).

 

[Eccl12and13]

Readers.....consider the following;


We have a law that we must love God with all of out might!
We have a law that we must love our neighbor!
We have a law that we must have faith!
We have a law that we must ask for forgiveness when we pray!


Do you really believe a Christian, or anyone, can continue to break God's laws and still be allowed into God's kingdom?


And then you have these 2 claims;


We are saved by faith and faith alone!
We are saved by grace and grace alone!


So....which is it? Are we saved by faith alone or grace alone?


OR.....do we just do as God instructs and keep His commandments?


.

 

[Eccl12and13]

But under your doctrine anyone who receives Jesus and lives on for years as a Christian, they have no such assurance as it's dependent upon some unknowable ambiguous level of obedience/works of the law (that you cannot support from scripture).

Matt.7
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Why did Jesus tells these above to depart? Why will they NOT be allowed into His kingdom? What did they do that would prevent them entrance?

The above truly thought when they died that they were saved....but when did they find out? Where was their "ASSURANCE"?

Jesus would not have given us this example if at some point this event would not take place.

At some point there will be MANY that died THINKING that they were saved...but will find out that Jesus will tell them, "...I never knew you: depart from me..."


.

 

[RickShafer]

Notice they thought they were saved by what they did?
Have not we:
1) Prophecied in thy name
2) Cast out devils
3) Done many wonderful works

None of them claimed to know Him.
Not one of them said: "I believed on you when I was a dreadful sinner and you gave me life".
Not one.
All those who thought they were saved trusted in their works:
Notice again;
They:
1) Prophecied in his name - work - anyone can do that; "the Lord hath sent me "....
2)Cast out devils - a work. Satan can claim to cast himself out. Infact he did inversely the same when he accused Jesus of casting out devils by beelzebub.
3)Done many wonderful works-(notice the term is subjective? 'Wonderful' in whose eyes?) - Again....back on the works.

You use a set of scriptures from the Lord's own mouth that plainly refutes what you are claiming,..........
Namely that the saved are those who recognize God's grace enough to work for it.
Do you not see how His own words defeat your argument?

 

[loveme1]

Work iniquity.

 

[haz]

Matt.7
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Why did Jesus tells these above to depart? Why will they NOT be allowed into His kingdom? What did they do that would prevent them entrance?

The above truly thought when they died that they were saved....but when did they find out? Where was their "ASSURANCE"?

Jesus would not have given us this example if at some point this event would not take place.

At some point there will be MANY that died THINKING that they were saved...but will find out that Jesus will tell them, "...I never knew you: depart from me..."

Matt.7: 21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

What is His will that we obey?

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

But if we're mixing grace with obedience/works of the law, then this is being lukewarm and God will spew you out of His mouth (Rev 3:15,16). It is unbelief in Jesus, which is the sin the world is convicted of, John 16:9. It is rebellion against God's will, rejecting the finished work of the cross and has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace. Heb 10:29

Those (such as the lukewarm grace+works of the law followers) who determine righteousness by obedience/works of the law are asked to repent of their dead works. But if they continue following such false gospels then it is they who will hear, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[loveme1]

Matt.7: 21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

What is His will that we obey?

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

But if we're mixing grace with obedience/works of the law, then this is being lukewarm and God will spew you out of His mouth (Rev 3:15,16). It is unbelief in Jesus, which is the sin the world is convicted of, John 16:9. It is rebellion against God's will, rejecting the finished work of the cross and has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace. Heb 10:29

Those (such as the lukewarm grace+works of the law followers) who determine righteousness by obedience/works of the law are asked to repent of their dead works. But if they continue following such false gospels then it is they who will hear, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Are you saying that obedience to the 10 Commandments is iniquity?

 

[Mediate]

Matt.7: 21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

What is His will that we obey?

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

But if we're mixing grace with obedience/works of the law, then this is being lukewarm and God will spew you out of His mouth (Rev 3:15,16). It is unbelief in Jesus, which is the sin the world is convicted of, John 16:9. It is rebellion against God's will, rejecting the finished work of the cross and has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace. Heb 10:29

Those (such as the lukewarm grace+works of the law followers) who determine righteousness by obedience/works of the law are asked to repent of their dead works. But if they continue following such false gospels then it is they who will hear, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I can tell you, that the double edged sword swings both ways. There is no God but the one God, complete.

The laws of love and commandments are benificial to man for to follow as a guideline unto the very nature of grace But it is by Jesus death we have life.

Didnt Jesus follow the very commandmnets he gave? Grace is like this; God himself being humble and understanding of us.

I meanx he could just destroy us all now, could he not? But he is a faithful, loving and hopeful God.

 

[loveme1]

Matthew 7

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

What did Yahshua the Messiah say about the Commandments?

Matthew 5

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[loveme1]

Now let us consider that Yahshua the Messiah will not tell us to do something, only to spew us out later for doing it... it does not makes sense.

That is why we make our Foundation on Good ground.

 

[psychomom]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matt.7:21)

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:29)

It's the faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ that saves...the obedience follows from a heart full of gratitude and love,
and can only be done in God's power.

-ellie

 

[loveme1]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matt.7:21)

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:29)

It's the faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ that saves...the obedience follows from a heart full of gratitude and love,
and can only be done in God's power.

-ellie

Certainly so.

 

[loveme1]

We can boast of nothing.