Is KJV the only real bible version?
- Thread starter beeskillet
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M
What? has that got to do with the fact that it is well known and established that the New testament was written in Greek? Which God chose to preach and teach the gospel to the whole world...knowing that the Jews would in large part reject His Son ... He picked the Greek to speak to the Gentiles...makes perfect and Godly sense!
M
Jon_1:9 And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear YHWH, the Elohim of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.
Joh_5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Joh_19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Yahushua forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh_19:17 And he bearing his stake went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
Joh_19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Yahushua was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Act_21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Act_22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
Act_26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Rev_16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Think about this...why would the text refer to how a word was pronounced in the Hebrew if the text was written in Hebrew? It was not! It was written in Greek...think about it!
Joh_5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Joh_19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Yahushua forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh_19:17 And he bearing his stake went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
Joh_19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Yahushua was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Act_21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Act_22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
Act_26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Rev_16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Think about this...why would the text refer to how a word was pronounced in the Hebrew if the text was written in Hebrew? It was not! It was written in Greek...think about it!
You're kidding, right? You ask for proof from the Greek, which apparently you know nothing of, and I give it to you, and then you tell me the KJV is right because of some opinion, not because that is what the original language.
I hate nothing worse than copy and pastes of words from Bible websites, but I will try and just a few words.
"All Jerusalem" (ESV) in Mark 1:5! OK?? OR "all the people of Jerusalem" NASB OR "οἱ Ἱεροσολυμῖται πάντες" Greek
1. KJV "They of Jerusalem."
Basic ENGLISH grammar lesson. KJV is using the genitive or possessive case. That is indicated by the word "OF"
Possessive in ENGLISH:
The book of Paul = Paul's books.
The car of his = His car.
The house of theirs - Their house.
Notice how the word "OF" is used to denote possession, just like the words "his" and "their" and the apostrophe.
In Greek, they use a different method of denoting possession, which is making the word have a different ending, usually OU for the end of a masculine word, or OWN for a masculine plural word.
Since the Greek does NOT use this form of the word, but rather uses the subject spelling ὁ or ho for the masculine singular, which is how it appears in Lexicons (Hoi or οἱ in the plural- not to confuse your poor little brain with the Greek, of course!) Of course, the fact is, this word οἱ or Hoi, is NOT the word THEY.
Further, the οἱ or hoi is not actually translated because it precedes a proper name. All proper nouns or names are preceded by the definite article - the - including the name of Jesus, eg ἐδάκρυσεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Jesus wept from John 11:35. This does not translate into English, so ALL those words for the, singular and plural are never translated in any version.
Lexicon :: Strong's G3588 - ho
ὁ
[TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]
Transliteration
ho
[/TD]ho
[TD="align: left"]
Pronunciation
ho (Key)
[/TD]ho (Key)
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]
Part of Speech
article
[/TD]article
[TD="align: left"]
Root Word (Etymology)
In all their inflections, the definite article
[/TD]In all their inflections, the definite article
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]
Outline of Biblical Usage
[/TD]
[*=1|left]this, that, these, etc.
Only significant renderings other than "the" counted
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]
KJV Translation Count — Total: 543x
The KJV translates Strongs G3588 in the following manner: which (413x), who (79x), the things (11x), the son (8x),misc (32x).
[/TD]The KJV translates Strongs G3588 in the following manner: which (413x), who (79x), the things (11x), the son (8x),misc (32x).
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Hoi, or οἱ is the masculine plural of the word "THE".
The correct word to use for "they" would be either autos or Houtos
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 320"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD] Strong's Number: 846[/TD]
[TD="width: 120, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Original Word[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Word Origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]αὐτὸς[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]from the particle au [perhaps akin to the base of (109) through the idea of a baffling wind] (backward)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Transliterated Word[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]TDNT Entry[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Autos[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]None[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Phonetic Spelling[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Parts of Speech[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]ow-tos' [/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Definition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
- himself, herself, themselves, itself
- he, she, it
- the same
(And of course, "they" is the plural of he, she it!)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] King James Word Usage - Total: 5118[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]him 1947, them 1148, her 195, it 152, not tr. 36, miscellaneous 1676
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 320"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD] Strong's Number: 3778[/TD]
[TD="width: 120, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Original Word[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Word Origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]οὗτος[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]from the article (3588) and (846)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Transliterated Word[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]TDNT Entry[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Houtos[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]None[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Phonetic Spelling[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Parts of Speech[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]hoo'-tos [/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Definition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
- this, these, etc.
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] King James Word Usage - Total: 356[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]this 157, these 59, he 31, the same 28, this man 25, she 12, they 10, miscellaneous 34
2. All - in Greek Pas, pasa, pan in the subject. The Greek uses πάντες or pantes which is the nominative plural
(Wait - I forgot to say that singular means "one" and plural means "more than one." In English and any other language!)
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 320"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD] Strong's Number: 3956[/TD]
[TD="width: 120, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Original Word[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Word Origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]including all the forms of declension[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Transliterated Word[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]TDNT Entry[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Pas[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]5:886,795[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Phonetic Spelling[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Parts of Speech[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]pas[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Adjective[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Definition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
- individually
- each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
- collectively
- some of all types
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
As you can plainly see, "all Jerusalem" is the correct translation from "οἱ Ἱεροσολυμῖται πάντες."[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
This can be solved by answering 1 question... Were all the people of Judea and all the people of Jerusalem baptized? Answer - No. The ESV is wrong when it says all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were baptized. Wouldn't you agree?
Now I will show you that the KJV is exactly right. I will break each section down for you.
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea - This means that peoples from all the cities in the geographical area known as Judea went to John.
And they of Jerusalem - This means people that lived in Jerusalem.
And were all baptized of him - This means that all those from all the cities in the geographical area known as Judea and those from the city of Jerusalem went to John to be baptized. Note: it does not say that all people of Judea and all people of Jerusalem were baptized like the ESV says.
Pretty cut and dry don't you think?
Now I will show you that the KJV is exactly right. I will break each section down for you.
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea - This means that peoples from all the cities in the geographical area known as Judea went to John.
And they of Jerusalem - This means people that lived in Jerusalem.
And were all baptized of him - This means that all those from all the cities in the geographical area known as Judea and those from the city of Jerusalem went to John to be baptized. Note: it does not say that all people of Judea and all people of Jerusalem were baptized like the ESV says.
Pretty cut and dry don't you think?
Any version that can bring a person to the Lord Jesus, and bring that person to Salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ, can't be a bad version.
However, it is when people start calling OTHER versions the Word of God, is when the error occurs. Other versions are great at getting people to the Lord, but if you are going to study the Word of God, then use the version that God Himself has protected and preserved for over 400 years, and many of our Christian brothers and sisters have shed their blood for, and that is the KJV.
^i^
^i^
However, it is when people start calling OTHER versions the Word of God, is when the error occurs. Other versions are great at getting people to the Lord, but if you are going to study the Word of God, then use the version that God Himself has protected and preserved for over 400 years, and many of our Christian brothers and sisters have shed their blood for, and that is the KJV.
^i^
^i^
U
Not at all.
If you take your uber-literal interpretation of the ESV, and apply it directly to the KJV,
then the KJV says that every single person in Judea went out and were baptized by John.
Jerusalem is in Judea, therefore the KJV agrees with your interpretation of the ESV that EVERY person in Jerusalem went out and was baptized, along with the rest of everyone in all Judea.
The TRUTH of the matter is, that neither version is actually saying that every individual person in Judea went out to John, but are saying MANY. I have never heard such a foolish interpretation. It is a phrase, not a literal absolute statement of "all" meaning every single person...
That said, neither version is saying that every single person went out to John.
Do you really think you have a valid argument here?
If you take your uber-literal interpretation of the ESV, and apply it directly to the KJV,
then the KJV says that every single person in Judea went out and were baptized by John.
Jerusalem is in Judea, therefore the KJV agrees with your interpretation of the ESV that EVERY person in Jerusalem went out and was baptized, along with the rest of everyone in all Judea.
The TRUTH of the matter is, that neither version is actually saying that every individual person in Judea went out to John, but are saying MANY. I have never heard such a foolish interpretation. It is a phrase, not a literal absolute statement of "all" meaning every single person...
That said, neither version is saying that every single person went out to John.
Do you really think you have a valid argument here?
Last edited by a moderator:
Aaaaaaand... beeskillet is probably dancing with joy over the argument he has caused here.
Not that he should take pride in this. Starting an argument here is easy. All you have to do is start a thread with one of the hot-button topics and the ranters will do the rest.
Not that he should take pride in this. Starting an argument here is easy. All you have to do is start a thread with one of the hot-button topics and the ranters will do the rest.
K
It's been the staple for Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, AOG, COG, COGOP, Church of Christ, Church of the Nazarene, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Congregational Holiness, United pentecostal, Independent, church of God in Christ, Wesleyan and so on thats all I can call to remembrance at this point. So why change it, unless there are other motives at work. I posted a thing months back about an atheist group that said they would change the bible little by little (started in 1969), but you can't change the KJV.