Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

[danschance]

So what is it going to be?

1) The dead know nothing and
a) The no longer have any reward and
b) No memory of them.

OR

2) The dead know nothing (among the living)... and
a) They no longer have a reward (among the living).
b) There is no memory of them (among the living).

You just can't run all over the bible taking things out of context or you will become a Seventh day nutter or worse, become a Jehovah's witness.

 

[Michael50]

I posted eccl. 9:4-6

Are you admitting the context of these verses are clearly under the sun? Either that or you must admit that there is no reward for the dead, no memory of them and I am sure even you would disagree with that.

Dan,, I do believe you are a very disingenuous person. You asked about verse 5. You didn't mention that you wanted verse 6 explained,, So Dan..you are a liar and no truth is in you.

Dan,,if you want to use line upon line and verse upon verse,, I'm fine with that.


Dan,, take your disingenuous self, and move ahead past verse 5 and verse 6,, go to verse 10 if you can add that high. and read that verse,, it will explain how much your disingenuous self knows after you drop dead. Verse 10 reads:

Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going." Eccleastes 9:10

Dan,, I've met alot of people in my life..but i've never met a more disingenuous person than you.

 

[Michael50]

So what is it going to be?

1) The dead know nothing and
a) The no longer have any reward and
b) No memory of them.

OR

2) The dead know nothing (among the living)... and
a) They no longer have a reward (among the living).
b) There is no memory of them (among the living).

You just can't run all over the bible taking things out of context or you will become a Seventh day nutter or worse, become a Jehovah's witness.

Go to verse 10,, if you can add that high. Read about how much knowledge you will have in the grave,, Verse 10 ..


The more you speak,, the more foolish you seem.

 

[Michael50]

So what is it going to be?

1) The dead know nothing and
a) The no longer have any reward and
b) No memory of them.

OR

2) The dead know nothing (among the living)... and
a) They no longer have a reward (among the living).
b) There is no memory of them (among the living).

You just can't run all over the bible taking things out of context or you will become a Seventh day nutter or worse, become a Jehovah's witness.

Explain this foolish statement that you are making,, I will quote you lest you get confused,,,"there is no memory of them (among the living)????????


What's that stupid statement you made mean?


George Washington,,,,,,, I have a book about him,, He's dead,, but I'm thinkin about him right now... So,,, that scripture can't be talking about the memory of living people,,,like me,,, cause I'm thinking about ol Georges life,, ahhh, the Memories he left us to read about and ponder....Hmmmmmmmm


What about ol george Washington? He's dead,, He has no thoughts going on,, Cause He's dead... No wisdom, no knowledge,, He is aware of nothing,, cause he's dead,,,

Read Eccl 9:10,, it will explain how much you remember while you are in the grave, dead!

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going."

Can your mind comprehend that scripture? My 10 yeard old grandsons mind can.. Doesn't say much for you if you can't.

 

[danschance]

Go to verse 10,, if you can add that high. Read about how much knowledge you will have in the grave,, Verse 10 ..


The more you speak,, the more foolish you seem.

Right, there is no activity in the grave. Again you don't get understand that "ALL" of the book of Ecclesiastes is a book with a secular or worldly viewpoint. Solomon is reflecting on his life. He is writing about how he sees the world. Read any commentary of the bible and they all say this. ... Just not from any cult.

You never answered. If the dead know nothing, then they also have no reward. Do you believe that?? No reward for anything? ..They are forgotten? You believe that once we died even God forgets about the dead?

Pure MBFM

 

[4j]

I AM SUPRISE THAT A CHRISTIAN WILL TEACH PEOPLE THAT HELL IS NOT REAL AND ALSO SAY THAT GOD CANNOT PUNISH SINNERS IN HELL FIRE .CAN YOU PLEASE STOP DECIEVING PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM FOR THE WEDGES OF SIN IS DEATH ROM 3.23.JESUS SAID IN HELL THE RICH MAN LIFTED UP HIS EYES AND SAID TO ABRAHAM THAT LAZARUS MAY QUENCH HIS THIRST THROUGH DIPPING OF HIS FINGER IN WATER BUT IT WAS TOO LATE .REV 21.8 SAYS THAT AS FOR FORNICATORS LIARS IDOLATERS SORCERES immorals they shall be cast into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone again jesus said better to enter life with one of your member missing than that your whole body be cast into hell.

 

[4j]

please all people should know that hell is too real to be ignored live for christ and u dont ve buss wit hell

 

[Michael50]

Right, there is no activity in the grave. Again you don't get understand that "ALL" of the book of Ecclesiastes is a book with a secular or worldly viewpoint. Solomon is reflecting on his life. He is writing about how he sees the world. Read any commentary of the bible and they all say this. ... Just not from any cult.

You never answered. If the dead know nothing, then they also have no reward. Do you believe that?? No reward for anything? ..They are forgotten? You believe that once we died even God forgets about the dead?

Pure MBFM

Dan,, everybody will eventually be raised from their graves... When that Happens, that is a called the,,,,,,Ressurection.

Dan,,, the Bible speaks of 2 Ressurections... One for the Righteous..... And one for the wicked.

Dan,,, everybody will be raised back to life by Jesus.

Some will go to heaven and live forever with Jesus.

Others will be punished for their individual sins,,, and then destroyed. Blotted out of existence... Turned into ashes.

God will do 3 things concerning sin:

He will isolate it.
He will eradicate it.
He will blot it out of existence.

 

[Michael50]

I AM SUPRISE THAT A CHRISTIAN WILL TEACH PEOPLE THAT HELL IS NOT REAL AND ALSO SAY THAT GOD CANNOT PUNISH SINNERS IN HELL FIRE .CAN YOU PLEASE STOP DECIEVING PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM FOR THE WEDGES OF SIN IS DEATH ROM 3.23.JESUS SAID IN HELL THE RICH MAN LIFTED UP HIS EYES AND SAID TO ABRAHAM THAT LAZARUS MAY QUENCH HIS THIRST THROUGH DIPPING OF HIS FINGER IN WATER BUT IT WAS TOO LATE .REV 21.8 SAYS THAT AS FOR FORNICATORS LIARS IDOLATERS SORCERES immorals they shall be cast into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone again jesus said better to enter life with one of your member missing than that your whole body be cast into hell.

Go back a couple hundred posts, and read.. You've missed too much to begin with that statement.

 

[danschance]

Dan,, everybody will eventually be raised from their graves... When that Happens, that is a called the,,,,,,Ressurection.

Dan,,, the Bible speaks of 2 Ressurections... One for the Righteous..... And one for the wicked.

Dan,,, everybody will be raised back to life by Jesus.

Some will go to heaven and live forever with Jesus.

Others will be punished for their individual sins,,, and then destroyed. Blotted out of existence... Turned into ashes.

God will do 3 things concerning sin:

He will isolate it.
He will eradicate it.
He will blot it out of existence.

Did I use big words you could not understand? The question still stands.

If you are going to use eccl. 9:5 as a text to support you false doctrine then you must also admit you believe there are not going to be any rewards. Is that what you believe?

 

[leonardronaldo]

Micheal50, look at the big brain on Leonardrondalo! He figured out what you could not, You can't determine context of a verse and not look at other surrounding verses. Either that you might wrongly conclude the dead know nothing.

well i guess that's the least I should read to understand the meaning of a term in a verse, which is to look at the verse before and after. most of the times you need to read the whole chapter, and sometimes the whole book. not impossible also to find another context of the other books of the bible.
And it's not the big brain of anybody. Holy Spirit gives the knowledge not so that we master the Bible, but so that the Bible masters us.
May the Lord's grace be upon us all

 

[Michael50]

Did I use big words you could not understand? The question still stands.

If you are going to use eccl. 9:5 as a text to support you false doctrine then you must also admit you believe there are not going to be any rewards. Is that what you believe?

When you die,, you are done. Probation has ended for you. Judgment follows!

If you are judged to be saved,, then eternal Life awaits you when Jesus comes and raises you from the dead!

If you are judged not worthy. If you are weighed in scales and found wanting,,, you will still be raised from your grave. But, you will be raised to eternal damnation. In which you are punished for the individual sins that you have committed and then you are destroyed.

So,, while you are dead in your grave... you have no reward. nothing. Not even consciousness.. thus: the dead know nothing!!!

Now,, if you can't understand that,,I cannot help you... It's elementary stuff.

 

[cfultz3]

Michael and others who think the dead know nothing......



If you believe that the dead know nothing then you must also believe:

1) They will never see a reward. No reward for tithing. No reward for all those times they did the right thing. Most of all no chance at being in Heaven or "paradise earth" because "Neither have they any more a reward".

2) "for the memory of them is forgotten"... So God will not remember the dead. Thier own children will get amnesia and forget all about them.

If you believe the dead know nothing then you must also believe they will not have any reward and they will be forgotten.



Or you can keep on reading and it all makes perfect sense and your interpretation is absurd. I will give you a hint: "and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun."

Dan,

You made me think there. Good observation.

If ECC is not understood as speaking about our physical death (seeing that the living, not the dead, lives under the sun), then it can be assumed that God will forget the dead, the righteous and the wicked both. Not only forget, but the righteous ones will not be rewarded from our Savior's promise of everlasting life. Neither will the wicked receive the SECOND DEATH.

The dead knows not of their child's birth....
The dead knows not of even their grave....
The dead knows not of anything concerning the living.... (ghosts = actual mascaraing demons)
No!!! The dead knows not anything.....

 

[danschance]

Exactly. Context is critical.

The entire context of Ecclesiastes is how Solomon is viewing this earthly life. The cult of dead souls is so far off the mark on this, it so bad, it's like Al Qaeda aiming to blow up the White house, but blows up Mecca instead.

 

[leonardronaldo]

Exactly. Context is critical.

The entire context of Ecclesiastes is how Solomon is viewing this earthly life. The cult of dead souls is so far off the mark on this, it so bad, it's like Al Qaeda aiming to blow up the White house, but blows up Mecca instead.

I thought the bible prophesied that it's gonna be Iran who will blow Mecca? oops wrong thread lol

 

[Shiloah]

I AM SUPRISE THAT A CHRISTIAN WILL TEACH PEOPLE THAT HELL IS NOT REAL AND ALSO SAY THAT GOD CANNOT PUNISH SINNERS IN HELL FIRE .CAN YOU PLEASE STOP DECIEVING PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM FOR THE WEDGES OF SIN IS DEATH ROM 3.23.JESUS SAID IN HELL THE RICH MAN LIFTED UP HIS EYES AND SAID TO ABRAHAM THAT LAZARUS MAY QUENCH HIS THIRST THROUGH DIPPING OF HIS FINGER IN WATER BUT IT WAS TOO LATE .REV 21.8 SAYS THAT AS FOR FORNICATORS LIARS IDOLATERS SORCERES immorals they shall be cast into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone again jesus said better to enter life with one of your member missing than that your whole body be cast into hell.

How about going back and reading the whole thread.

 

[Shiloah]

I posted eccl. 9:4-6

Are you admitting the context of these verses are clearly under the sun? Either that or you must admit that there is no reward for the dead, no memory of them and I am sure even you would disagree with that.

Under the sun means everything. Are you actually suggesting this makes a difference in this argument? Gad you're reaching.

 

[danschance]

Under the sun means everything. Are you actually suggesting this makes a difference in this argument? Gad you're reaching.

Yes. Read the entire verse and understand the surrounding context.

It says :
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.

So if you claim the dead know nothing
Then you also claim there is no further reward (Not even Heaven)
and they will be forgotten

Do you believe that is true?
If you do believe that, then you can start a brand new cult.

 

[danschance]

Let's here how you are going to twist this?


Eccl. 9:5

KJV: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

 

[danschance]

Under the sun means everything. Are you actually suggesting this makes a difference in this argument? Gad you're reaching.

"Under the sun" is a phrase from Eccl. Show me from that book what it means? How does the author use this phrase? How did people of that time consider this phrase?

Maybe you could actually read this book so you get a good feel for this book. It has always been one of my favorite books. Cuz your comments about this book reek of ignorance.