Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

[eternally-gratefull]

So you dispute Israel backslid!!

as a nation. yes. does this mean every induvidual was saved?? Your failing to make your point!!

You have had it pal. They went away from God big time. You poor thing! I can't stop laughing at your nonsense.

Keep laughing. I am saddened by your inconsistency and denial of truth. Now your using a nation of people who had spent years denying God to prove that an induvidual can be born again, and recieve eternal life. only to lose it.

I guess God got it wrong again, he should never have told us we can have eternal life. he should have called it conditional life. because you know better than God, and our life in christ according to you is not eternal but conditional.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I never said Jesus saved Judas, in fact Jesus said the opposite.

oh, so now your admitting judas was not saved then lost it? but was never saved? which is it? now who is backsliding ??

are you still laughing??

 

[homwardbound]

look at anything which it calls sin. You will see it is self motivated. What sin is not self motivated?

It is the just can only live and love by Faith in Christ Jesus and all sin is anything with out faith in Christ Jesus, this includes good works

 

[Abiding]

I dispute Jesus only came for the lost sheep of Israel. That is just not true at all.

You must also realise that many Israelites believed and followed God, only to turn away from Him later, thus proving yet again that people backslide and cannot always be saved and OSAS is wrong.

Sure its true ....He then sent the disciples/apostles out to the world...but whay would that matter? i missed the point again.

Nope you incorrect...read parable of the sower. also realize the word disciple was a generic term not invented
for Jesus people....it just means followers of a teacher/rabbi. Has no meaning otherwise as to the quality or salvation
of anyone.

Backslidding and the other stuff is just a altogather different topic.

 

[Abiding]

Talk about not reading what he said. He never said HE ONLY CAME FOR THEM. He asked you if they lost there salvation. did they? is that why they were lost




As Abiding said earlier. You need to get better arguments, your arguments against OSAS are seriously flawed!

side note ...Jesus did say He came only for the lost sheep of Israel. He never stepped out of Israel
other than samaria because they were half jews. He sent the church to do the rest afterwords.

 

[PS]

Sure its true ....He then sent the disciples/apostles out to the world...but whay would that matter? i missed the point again.

Nope you incorrect...read parable of the sower. also realize the word disciple was a generic term not invented
for Jesus people....it just means followers of a teacher/rabbi. Has no meaning otherwise as to the quality or salvation
of anyone.

Backslidding and the other stuff is just a altogather different topic.

Backsliding is very much part of the OSAS debate. It proves OSAS is wrong!

 

[homwardbound]

There is no need to copy/paste what christians already know. I have not said you only need works for this will not get you to heaven but neither is faith alone and no works. I do not know if you have read my previous posts in this thread or just jumped in the middle of eternal and I understanding each other. Faith and works are together and can not be separate from one another. It is like saying you jump on the water but can not be wet, or removing heat from the fire.

I think the question would be, what do you think works is?

THe by -product of Faith in Jesus Christ

 

[Abiding]

Backsliding is very much part of the OSAS debate. It proves OSAS is wrong!

PS you fail to respond to clear texts that prove you to be in error. Pointless to discuss anything with you.
you bring up scripture then your given evidence your wrong then you move on and talk about something else.

 

[PS]

PS you fail to respond to clear texts that prove you to be in error. Pointless to discuss anything with you.
you bring up scripture then your given evidence your wrong then you move on and talk about something else.

Nobody is disputing Jesus said "Ye are not all clean" and we know Jesus said he would be betrayed.

I should use better scriptures if I were you.

The fact remains that people backslide.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Backsliding is very much part of the OSAS debate. It proves OSAS is wrong!

The fallacy in your argument is that backsliden people have lost salvation. The prodigal son was still the son.. Judas did not backslide. he was never on the right path.

 

[homwardbound]

Those who believe the false doctrine of "once saved, always saved" are putting the fate of their eternal souls in grave danger.


Philippians 2:12 says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.


Once saved certainly does NOT mean always saved.

And the neaxt verse says: 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
It is God that does the work or better yet has done the work starting at the cross, thus we all that believe God is sorting this out in me, you,and you. He is waiting for you to give up your works then his works will be done in and through you. When are we goling to actually believe God at his word IT IS FINISHED and then Christ gave up the Ghost and died, then on the third day rose back to life by his Father and showed himself to many a people then the Holy Ghost came to live in the believer to teach one all truth about Jesus and his Father, first to convict us each personally on our own sins, then about righteousness because Jesus went to Father, then that the prince of this world has been Judged, defeated and the only thing left is for each one of us to learn to see is judging ourselves seeing our own depravity and therefore dying to self and here comes Romans 6:1-11 explaining this to you the believer and to me, and by faith in the truth explained by Paul I, you and all by belief this has happened hoping for anyone to have ears and hear what the Spirit is saying

 

[homwardbound]

Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

If there was any among them who did not believe it would have been doubting Thomas, it's down to you to show that Judas did not believe. I think Judas believed right up to the end when the full import of what he had done hit him. This imo is why he hanged himself after he tried to return the money.

.

So you are saying he repented and him hanging himself is eveidence of that, for Christ had to go to the cross for the redemption and the new Covenant which is now in place. Thanks P.S. good observation, God is Good

 

[PS]

The fallacy in your argument is that backsliden people have lost salvation. The prodigal son was still the son.. Judas did not backslide. he was never on the right path.

Pro 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with the fruit of his ways, and a good man will be filled with the fruit of his ways.

Jer 3:7 And I thought, 'After she has done all this she will return to me,' but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore.

Jer 8:5 Why then has this people turned away in perpetual backsliding? They hold fast to deceit; they refuse to return.

Isa 1:4 Ah, sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! They have forsaken the LORD, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they are utterly estranged.

 

[homwardbound]

PS i already gave you an knock it out of the park text.

Judas had not been cleansed before the foot washing.
The rest were, he was not saved, before the transgression
talked about in Acts1 etc

Does anyone one of us except God know what wasin Judas's heart after the betryal, so then why is this an issue, God has mercy and has always had mercy about sacrifices and gifts. the evidence of him hanging himself after tells me he was remorseful and knew he deserved death so he hung himself, and the outcome is between Judas and God for God is truly the one that knew Judas's heart after the betrayal
Thanks Father for your Mercy on me

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Pro 14:14 The backslider in heart will be filled with the fruit of his ways, and a good man will be filled with the fruit of his ways.

Jer 3:7 And I thought, 'After she has done all this she will return to me,' but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore.

Jer 8:5 Why then has this people turned away in perpetual backsliding? They hold fast to deceit; they refuse to return.

Isa 1:4 Ah, sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! They have forsaken the LORD, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they are utterly estranged.

all those speak of a NATION. not induviduals.

are you ever going to get it? YUou can;t use a NATION to prove your point about ones INDIVIDUAL SALVATION!! if we did that we could all make the bible say anything and we would ALL be right!

 

[PS]

To recap.

In John 17:12 we read of Jesus speaking to the twelve apostles and he refers to Judas as the one who “perished.” Now Judas could not have “perished” if first he had not been “alive,” that is, an accepted member of the select twelve that Christ had chosen.
Therefore, Judas “fell away.”

In Matthew 10:5-8 we read where Jesus sent the twelve out including Judas to preach, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Now a lost person does not have these powers and cannot “cast out demons.” However Abiding said "it can be proven with scripture that God can give power to the unsaved" but if he had thought about it he would have remembered that Jesus said in Matthew 12:26 "if Satan is casting out Satan, he is divided and fighting against himself. His own kingdom will not survive."

Plainly Judas was one of the twelve in every way both in spirit, believing and in faith.

It wasn't until the last supper that Saten entered into Judas.

In John 13:25 we read, Judas leaning forward on Jesus' chest, asked him, "Lord, who is it?" Jesus answered, "He is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread after I have dipped it in the dish."Then he took a piece of bread, dipped it, and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. After he had taken the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus told him, "Do quickly what you are going to do!"

Judas is an example of someone who backslid.

 

[Geometar]

Read Holy Fathers about Juda Iscariot.U will understand what caused that he done so big sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To recap.

In John 17:12 we read of Jesus speaking to the twelve apostles and he refers to Judas as the one who “perished.” Now Judas could not have “perished” if first he had not been “alive,” that is, an accepted member of the select twelve that Christ had chosen.
Therefore, Judas “fell away.”

In Matthew 10:5-8 we read where Jesus sent the twelve out including Judas to preach, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Now a lost person does not have these powers and cannot “cast out demons.” However Abiding said "it can be proven with scripture that God can give power to the unsaved" but if he had thought about it he would have remembered that Jesus said in Matthew 12:26 "if Satan is casting out Satan, he is divided and fighting against himself. His own kingdom will not survive."

Plainly Judas was one of the twelve in every way both in spirit, believing and in faith.

It wasn't until the last supper that Saten entered into Judas.

In John 13:25 we read, Judas leaning forward on Jesus' chest, asked him, "Lord, who is it?" Jesus answered, "He is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread after I have dipped it in the dish."Then he took a piece of bread, dipped it, and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. After he had taken the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus told him, "Do quickly what you are going to do!"

Judas is an example of someone who backslid.

Note to all those who are wondering why their gospel MAKES NO SENSE.

SATAN CAN NOT ENTER A CHILD OF GOD. If Judas was EVER SAVED. Satan would never have entered him.

How did Judas backslide? You admited he was a thief. So when did he ever walk the traight and narrow.

Some people just do not get it.

 

[BarlyGurl]

To recap.

In John 17:12 we read of Jesus speaking to the twelve apostles and he refers to Judas as the one who “perished.” Now Judas could not have “perished” if first he had not been “alive,” that is, an accepted member of the select twelve that Christ had chosen.
Therefore, Judas “fell away.”

In Matthew 10:5-8 we read where Jesus sent the twelve out including Judas to preach, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Now a lost person does not have these powers and cannot “cast out demons.” However Abiding said "it can be proven with scripture that God can give power to the unsaved" but if he had thought about it he would have remembered that Jesus said in Matthew 12:26 "if Satan is casting out Satan, he is divided and fighting against himself. His own kingdom will not survive."

Plainly Judas was one of the twelve in every way both in spirit, believing and in faith.

It wasn't until the last supper that Saten entered into Judas.

In John 13:25 we read, Judas leaning forward on Jesus' chest, asked him, "Lord, who is it?" Jesus answered, "He is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread after I have dipped it in the dish."Then he took a piece of bread, dipped it, and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. After he had taken the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus told him, "Do quickly what you are going to do!"

Judas is an example of someone who backslid.

Judas is an example of someone who was NEVER saved!!! JESUS was STILL ALIVE as in NOT YET CRUCIFIED. When a person gets saved... God gives you a new heart... you become NEW creature and recieve the HOLY SPIRIT. It is POSSIBLE Judas was among those Jesus released from Abraham"s bussom but HE IS NOT an example of a backslidden Christian. HELLO... Dispensation DOES have some merit... as in this scenario.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read Holy Fathers about Juda Iscariot.U will understand what caused that he done so big sin.

why do that when we can just read the word of God? Since when do we listen to men and take what they say over what the word of God says?