Is Open Theism Heresy?
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Well, let me say it this way: Would you offer me some grace on the topic?
We can not say anything about God outside of HIS written word. Where the Word of God is Silent on a topic, we should also remain silent. Because Truth should be our only Motivation when speaking of the Living God.
To say "God can't" and not show it biblically is an error. God can not Lie.
Titus 1:2 and Hebrews 6:18
God can not sin. James 1:13
I would agree from what I see in the word of God for God not to exist or in the future is unbiblical Because HE is the Eternal God.
Psalm 90:2, Isaiah 41:4, and Romans 1:20
I would not need to speak about absurdities when the Word of God has already.
We can not say anything about God outside of HIS written word. Where the Word of God is Silent on a topic, we should also remain silent. Because Truth should be our only Motivation when speaking of the Living God.
To say "God can't" and not show it biblically is an error. God can not Lie.
Titus 1:2 and Hebrews 6:18
God can not sin. James 1:13
I would agree from what I see in the word of God for God not to exist or in the future is unbiblical Because HE is the Eternal God.
Psalm 90:2, Isaiah 41:4, and Romans 1:20
I would not need to speak about absurdities when the Word of God has already.
Sure, here is my grace (which I credit to God):
God’s omnipotence means that He can do everything except “disown Himself” or not be God (2TM 2:13). It does NOT mean that God can perform logical absurdities, such as creating a rock too large for Him to move. Omnipotence or sovereignty also means that human MFW has limits with regard to how it can contradict God’s will. God provides morally competent humans the ability to resist His intentional will and plan of salvation (POS) within limits, such as the time limit that will end with death, resurrection (the last miracle) and judgment (per HB 9:27)–called His permissive will.
Divine omniscience includes knowledge of people’s thoughts (PS 94:11, MT 12:25) and the foreknowledge of events (ACTS 2:23, RM 8:29, 11:2, 1PT 1:2). Some people think that God even knows what a person will be/do before that person exists (JR 1:5). If this view is correct, it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated, which contradicts Scripture teaching that sinners are accountable and damnable. (I find it simpler to think that God merely tweaks the river of history occasionally to keep if flowing in the direction He intends but allows the fish to swim as they wish.)
When GW does not address a topic, we must use our God-given gift of logic, praying that we are guided by the
Spirit of Truth. (I believe every normal adult has some reasoning ability, hopefully at least the amount called common sense.)
To say both God can and cannot do something is problematic without Scriptural support, and I am glad you finally agree that Scripture does not support saying that God can do the absurd.
Biblical passages that seem to support the view that human logic is a divine gift include the following:
1. “Come now, let us reason together,” says the Lord. (IS 1:18a)
2. “They hated me without reason.” (JN 15:25)
3. “So [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.” (ACTS 17:17)
4. “We do, however, speak a message of wisdom [right reasoning] among the mature…” (1CR 2:6)
5. “When I was a child… I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.” (1CR 13:11)
6. “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.” (1PT 3:15b)
God’s omnipotence means that He can do everything except “disown Himself” or not be God (2TM 2:13). It does NOT mean that God can perform logical absurdities, such as creating a rock too large for Him to move. Omnipotence or sovereignty also means that human MFW has limits with regard to how it can contradict God’s will. God provides morally competent humans the ability to resist His intentional will and plan of salvation (POS) within limits, such as the time limit that will end with death, resurrection (the last miracle) and judgment (per HB 9:27)–called His permissive will.
Divine omniscience includes knowledge of people’s thoughts (PS 94:11, MT 12:25) and the foreknowledge of events (ACTS 2:23, RM 8:29, 11:2, 1PT 1:2). Some people think that God even knows what a person will be/do before that person exists (JR 1:5). If this view is correct, it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated, which contradicts Scripture teaching that sinners are accountable and damnable. (I find it simpler to think that God merely tweaks the river of history occasionally to keep if flowing in the direction He intends but allows the fish to swim as they wish.)
When GW does not address a topic, we must use our God-given gift of logic, praying that we are guided by the
Spirit of Truth. (I believe every normal adult has some reasoning ability, hopefully at least the amount called common sense.)
To say both God can and cannot do something is problematic without Scriptural support, and I am glad you finally agree that Scripture does not support saying that God can do the absurd.
Biblical passages that seem to support the view that human logic is a divine gift include the following:
1. “Come now, let us reason together,” says the Lord. (IS 1:18a)
2. “They hated me without reason.” (JN 15:25)
3. “So [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.” (ACTS 17:17)
4. “We do, however, speak a message of wisdom [right reasoning] among the mature…” (1CR 2:6)
5. “When I was a child… I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.” (1CR 13:11)
6. “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.” (1PT 3:15b)
... which is not plan B for God...
so when the scripture says these things were ordained before the beginning of the world, and that they find their expression in us through the Lamb slain 'from' the foundation, the clear scripture informs us of what may be unclear about the word 'from' - - Christ gave His life for us before He created the world. indicating He knew that with our free will, we would sin, that He knew also us and that He did not create haphazardly without knowing what it was He was creating.
He made us, purposefully and consciously; masterfully.
that knowledge of our failures before He created us is neither authorship of sin nor causation of sin.
so when the scripture says these things were ordained before the beginning of the world, and that they find their expression in us through the Lamb slain 'from' the foundation, the clear scripture informs us of what may be unclear about the word 'from' - - Christ gave His life for us before He created the world. indicating He knew that with our free will, we would sin, that He knew also us and that He did not create haphazardly without knowing what it was He was creating.
He made us, purposefully and consciously; masterfully.
that knowledge of our failures before He created us is neither authorship of sin nor causation of sin.
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have you not read,
according to you - that is, according to open theism, if you really represent it - this makes God the author of sin. but not according to scripture.
have we answered the question of the thread topic then? is open theism heresy?
if it is indeed what you are arguing, then definitively, yes.
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
will you judge God over this?according to you - that is, according to open theism, if you really represent it - this makes God the author of sin. but not according to scripture.
have we answered the question of the thread topic then? is open theism heresy?
if it is indeed what you are arguing, then definitively, yes.
Under Open Theism, God is the Creator. And God is not the author of sin. And both are consistent with scripture.
You would need to show the logical steps that get you from from the premises of Open Theism to the conclusions of them that you allege are the only ones possible.
You, on the other hand, are arguing illogically for your view.
You are arguing that because foreknowledge of the consequences of one's action is not causal in one case (i.e. having a baby knowing it will die), exhaustive foreknowledge cannot be causal in any cases. That is the logical fallacy of hasty generalisation.
You would need to show the logical steps that get you from from the premises of Open Theism to the conclusions of them that you allege are the only ones possible.
You, on the other hand, are arguing illogically for your view.
You are arguing that because foreknowledge of the consequences of one's action is not causal in one case (i.e. having a baby knowing it will die), exhaustive foreknowledge cannot be causal in any cases. That is the logical fallacy of hasty generalisation.
no, it is the same. your argument is that if God knew beforehand angels or men would sin by being given free agency, yet created them anyway, then God authored sin - and is therefore evil. therefore you suppose God is ignorant of His own handiwork and that Satan outwitted Him by fathering sin. that is a general argument about knowledge being equivalent to causation, not specific to God alone - - but you contradict your own logic saying that any person who purposefully has a child, knowing it will die, is not guilty of its death. in that you are correct! but you wave your hands in the air saying, this is a totally different thing, though we are His children and He appointed to us all once to die.
nevertheless scripture clearly says Christ dies before creation - that His plan of salvation is from the beginning, that He purposefully concludes all under sin in order that by faith in Christ He is glorified, that life in Him is salvation by mercy, not by the will, effort, works or intention of man, that it be in Him and Him alone all glory resides.
the open theism worldview is contrary to scripture, claiming God reactively, on His heels against Satan's unexpected mortal blow, sent His Son. Scripture is abundantly clear that the LORD from the foundation int ended these things, but you say that makes Him evil if He did so, which is patently blasphemous.
and why?
because you consider your human agency sacrosanct and inviolable, that even God cannot tell you what you should do, or number your days.
open theism is humanism. it is not historical Christianity, not the faith passed to us from our forebears.
nevertheless scripture clearly says Christ dies before creation - that His plan of salvation is from the beginning, that He purposefully concludes all under sin in order that by faith in Christ He is glorified, that life in Him is salvation by mercy, not by the will, effort, works or intention of man, that it be in Him and Him alone all glory resides.
the open theism worldview is contrary to scripture, claiming God reactively, on His heels against Satan's unexpected mortal blow, sent His Son. Scripture is abundantly clear that the LORD from the foundation int ended these things, but you say that makes Him evil if He did so, which is patently blasphemous.
and why?
because you consider your human agency sacrosanct and inviolable, that even God cannot tell you what you should do, or number your days.
open theism is humanism. it is not historical Christianity, not the faith passed to us from our forebears.