Is Speaking in Tongues still available today?
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We can only go by what we have available through the Word of God and don't know every situation and circumstance of when God's power is on display.
I was in a Youth Convention one time and suddenly right in the middle of song service it got extremely quiet (which was unusual because there usually someone play piano softly or something) suddenly in great travailing and weeping and moaning and groaning which can't be uttered, everyone (including ALL on the platform everyone that played an instrument) fell to their knees ALL at once. So amazing. God can and will surprise you at time with His display of Power.
I was in a Youth Convention one time and suddenly right in the middle of song service it got extremely quiet (which was unusual because there usually someone play piano softly or something) suddenly in great travailing and weeping and moaning and groaning which can't be uttered, everyone (including ALL on the platform everyone that played an instrument) fell to their knees ALL at once. So amazing. God can and will surprise you at time with His display of Power.
That was only the beginning of Joel's prophecy being fulfilled and its still being poured out today. I love God so much.
Many Christians believe in the diverse ways the Holy Spirit continues to work in the lives of believers Today from all walks of life as evidence of this ongoing fulfillment. Every believer, regardless of their social status or background, has the potential to be empowered and transformed by the Holy Spirit. Praise God
Many Christians believe in the diverse ways the Holy Spirit continues to work in the lives of believers Today from all walks of life as evidence of this ongoing fulfillment. Every believer, regardless of their social status or background, has the potential to be empowered and transformed by the Holy Spirit. Praise God
Once you get it through your head that in the KJB "tongues" simply means "languages", which is the correct translation for glossais (not glossolalia, which is not found in Scripture), then ALL tongues needed interpretation. The purpose of all spiritual gifts (including tongues) was for the EDIFICATION OF THE CHURCH. And only those who could understand what was being said could be edified.
All the Church Fathers (early Christian ecclesiastical writers until the 5th century) understood that the spiritual gift of tongues was the supernatural ability to speak foreign languages not known by the speaker. They believed that this gift was given for the spread of the Gospel throughout the world. That is not the current understanding at all.
All the Church Fathers (early Christian ecclesiastical writers until the 5th century) understood that the spiritual gift of tongues was the supernatural ability to speak foreign languages not known by the speaker. They believed that this gift was given for the spread of the Gospel throughout the world. That is not the current understanding at all.
I didn't think I was disputing that fact.
- Among the earliest existing manuscripts of Acts (dating from the 3rd and 4th centuries AD), there are two key textual witnesses:
- Codex Vaticanus (325-350 AD) and Codex Sinaiticus (330-360 AD): These manuscripts lack the phrase "with other tongues". They simply state, "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
Easy thing to say if you don't read these books or check it out, or look at a quick web search on the topic, or familiarize yourself with theological works on the subject that contain the quotes.
Irenaeus, a missionary to France and church overseer wrote of brethren who prophesied, spoke in tongues, prophesied, had foreknowledge, healed, and rose the dead. That is found in 'Against Heresies.' In the other of his works that survived he argued that rejecting the gift of prophecy was one of the characteristics of the heresies.
It looks like Augustine tried to make his doctrine out of his lack of experience on this one. He wasn't seeing this stuff, so he created a justification for cessationism. But later, he recorded a wave of miracles and healings, and told believers who were healed of their obligation to testify to what God had done. He records many healings in City of God.
If you start reading Augustine's records of healings, be warned there was a disproportionate number of accounts of the healing of anal fistulas. Roman style public restrooms did not use water the way middle easterners do or toilet paper. Instead, there was a communal sponge on a stick in vinegar or salt water.
You could also read Bible commentator Craig Keener's 1000+ page book 'Miracles' which includes numerous historical references to miracles among Christians. Another source is the first volume of Burgess work 'The Spirit and the Church" I think the subtitle on the first volume is "Antiquity" and has volume 1 in there. Eusebius Ecclesiastical history records some references to spiritual gifts during the era, but it quotes heavily from Irenaeus' Against Heresies' and I don't remember if the other content deals much with miracles. It does address the fact that the church affirmed that it had the gift of prophecy before and after the Montanist controversy, even when the Montanists claimed it had ceased after Montanus had passed away.
Irenaeus, a missionary to France and church overseer wrote of brethren who prophesied, spoke in tongues, prophesied, had foreknowledge, healed, and rose the dead. That is found in 'Against Heresies.' In the other of his works that survived he argued that rejecting the gift of prophecy was one of the characteristics of the heresies.
It looks like Augustine tried to make his doctrine out of his lack of experience on this one. He wasn't seeing this stuff, so he created a justification for cessationism. But later, he recorded a wave of miracles and healings, and told believers who were healed of their obligation to testify to what God had done. He records many healings in City of God.
If you start reading Augustine's records of healings, be warned there was a disproportionate number of accounts of the healing of anal fistulas. Roman style public restrooms did not use water the way middle easterners do or toilet paper. Instead, there was a communal sponge on a stick in vinegar or salt water.
You could also read Bible commentator Craig Keener's 1000+ page book 'Miracles' which includes numerous historical references to miracles among Christians. Another source is the first volume of Burgess work 'The Spirit and the Church" I think the subtitle on the first volume is "Antiquity" and has volume 1 in there. Eusebius Ecclesiastical history records some references to spiritual gifts during the era, but it quotes heavily from Irenaeus' Against Heresies' and I don't remember if the other content deals much with miracles. It does address the fact that the church affirmed that it had the gift of prophecy before and after the Montanist controversy, even when the Montanists claimed it had ceased after Montanus had passed away.
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That sounds like disorder and disregard of Paul's teachings in I Corinthians 14 to me. Look at verse 28. Back up in the chapter. When we pray in church, we are supposed to do it in a way that builds up the church. The one who does so in tongues doesn't edify others. Paul spoke in tongues more than them all, yet in the church he would rather speak 4 words with the understanding that he may instruct others than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue.
I was in a meeting where maybe 5000 people spoke in tongues as the 'worship leader' directed. I refrained out of obedience to scripture. Except it seemed like a lot of them were saying either 'babababa' or 'bada bada bada.' They had a guest speaker from America, but at the end he had people gather those who wanted to be baptized with the Holy Spirit speak in tongues. His instructions to them was to think nothing and say 'whatever bubbles up out of their spirit.' If other people around them were saying 'bada bada bada', did anything supernatural have to occur for them to do the same thing? I found out that group of churches had a lot of people who sounded like that. The man at that meeting was a guest speaker. I don't know what they normally did in their churches in that regard.
I read Azusa Street experiences about being sanctified, devoted to God, and death to self among those who were baptized with the Holy Ghost. I can't rule out people being pressured, coached, or put in situations where they make a little noise and others saying 'you got it.' I don't believe the Holy Spirit needs the coaching or the social pressure. I didn't have anyone coaching me or any special 'set up' to make it happen for me.
I was in a meeting where maybe 5000 people spoke in tongues as the 'worship leader' directed. I refrained out of obedience to scripture. Except it seemed like a lot of them were saying either 'babababa' or 'bada bada bada.' They had a guest speaker from America, but at the end he had people gather those who wanted to be baptized with the Holy Spirit speak in tongues. His instructions to them was to think nothing and say 'whatever bubbles up out of their spirit.' If other people around them were saying 'bada bada bada', did anything supernatural have to occur for them to do the same thing? I found out that group of churches had a lot of people who sounded like that. The man at that meeting was a guest speaker. I don't know what they normally did in their churches in that regard.
I read Azusa Street experiences about being sanctified, devoted to God, and death to self among those who were baptized with the Holy Ghost. I can't rule out people being pressured, coached, or put in situations where they make a little noise and others saying 'you got it.' I don't believe the Holy Spirit needs the coaching or the social pressure. I didn't have anyone coaching me or any special 'set up' to make it happen for me.
'm not sure what your area of disagreement is supposed to be with the post I made. I agree that speaking in tongues involves the Spirit giving utterance, a point I made to you some time back in the thread. They spoke as the Spirit gave them utterance. The Spirit enabled them to speak, but they did the speaking.
But you are cutting off verses about the word of wisdom and the word of knowledge.
And I disagree with the translators here to say utterance of wisdom or utterance of knowledge. I'm assuming that's ESV. I realize they have to use some different language to make their translations different enough from others to have a copyright. But logos has a broader meaning than 'utterance.' I suspect here it's more of a message from God rather than one that necessarily has to be spoken out through the person at the moment. That sounds more like prophesying.
Be that as it may, it's saying word of wisdom and word of knowledge, not word of tongues.
And I don't see how 'as the Spirit gave them utterance' contradicts what I wrote. The Spirit gives what is to be said. At the same time, tongues is a gift that has to be properly stewarded. It's possible to use it improperly, like everyone praying in tongues at the same time in church where you can't ear anything but speaking in tongues and unbelieving visitors think you are all crazy, or taking turns speaking in tongues and no one interpreting, or someone giving a message in tongues, finding there is no interpreter and going on and on in tongues.
But you are cutting off verses about the word of wisdom and the word of knowledge.
And I disagree with the translators here to say utterance of wisdom or utterance of knowledge. I'm assuming that's ESV. I realize they have to use some different language to make their translations different enough from others to have a copyright. But logos has a broader meaning than 'utterance.' I suspect here it's more of a message from God rather than one that necessarily has to be spoken out through the person at the moment. That sounds more like prophesying.
Be that as it may, it's saying word of wisdom and word of knowledge, not word of tongues.
And I don't see how 'as the Spirit gave them utterance' contradicts what I wrote. The Spirit gives what is to be said. At the same time, tongues is a gift that has to be properly stewarded. It's possible to use it improperly, like everyone praying in tongues at the same time in church where you can't ear anything but speaking in tongues and unbelieving visitors think you are all crazy, or taking turns speaking in tongues and no one interpreting, or someone giving a message in tongues, finding there is no interpreter and going on and on in tongues.
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In Peter's example in Chapter 10, it declares the circumcised knew the Gentiles were speaking in tongues. It doesn't say they could understand it. But they "knew" the Holy Spirit fell upon/indwelled them and they spoke in tongues. Every example ""in the Bible"" after that states basically the same thing. So if it is human language ever, it is very rare. But I've been serving God for over 50 years and never heard of it or been told of it. Just heard through the grapevine it has happened. So it is a very very extremely rare thing """if""" it actually happens.
But I am not going to say it does not nor cannot happen. Just that as a Pentecostal Minister, I've never seen it or been first hand told of it.
But I am not going to say it does not nor cannot happen. Just that as a Pentecostal Minister, I've never seen it or been first hand told of it.
Charles A. Sullivan shows research from the Catholic Archives, who have documented literally everything including telling on themselves. And they have a timeline from Acts 2 until the 18th century of proven sects and groups even including some Catholic parishes that spoke in tongues.
And of course, we have documentation from late 1800's until today of it happening. So it has "never ended."
I would also add that today the Charismatic Movement has been the fastest and greatest growing movement in the past 100 years and why it is so well known right this moment.
And of course, we have documentation from late 1800's until today of it happening. So it has "never ended."
I would also add that today the Charismatic Movement has been the fastest and greatest growing movement in the past 100 years and why it is so well known right this moment.